Please redistribute to appropriate forums. As I promised in the MIDCOM working group in San Diego, I've created a mailing list for discussion on diagnostics and discovery of intermediate devices. Here are the particulars: List name: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: <none as of yet> march is short for Middleware ARCHitecture. All I mean by that is that how it all fits together: diagnostics, discovery, and communications with middleware devices is in scope for this list. So is O&M as relates to those devices and their end points. Flaming about intermediate devices is not in scope. I'd like to start, however, by focusing discussion on diagnostics and discovery. Please join me on this list to consider how these devices make themselves known, what the implications of diagnostic messages such as ICMP errors could be in these cases, and what additional mechanisms are needed. Cheers! -- Eliot Lear [EMAIL PROTECTED]