Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Agreed! Berlin - Vancouver - Prague my three favourites. cheers! ~Carlos On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! > > (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step > up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF > meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I > hope.) > > Lars > -- -- = Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://cagnazzo.name =
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
> From: Ted Lemon > I would personally love it if IETF did another Munich meeting, because > I haven't been there since I was seven, and I've always wanted to go back "Many fine lunches and dinners". Some things never change... Noel
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 6, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Douglas Otis wrote: > Agreed. One minor downside was needing an additional flight. It seems AB > who handles about a third of the traffic rather than Lufthansa that handles > about one fifth, was not the best choice where a 6 hour layover extended an > hour on the tarmac in a hot plane. I just took a train. But yeah, Munich is clearly easier to fly to. I would personally love it if IETF did another Munich meeting, because I haven't been there since I was seven, and I've always wanted to go back (I missed the previous Munich meeting, much to my frustration).
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
>Agreed. One minor downside was needing an additional flight. It seems AB who >handles about a third of the traffic rather than Lufthansa that handles about >one >fifth, was not the best choice where a 6 hour layover extended an hour on the >tarmac >in a hot plane. With any luck, the next time we meet in Germany, they'll have opened the new and much larger Berlin Brandenburg airport which will enable far more direct intercontinental flights.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Keith Moore wrote: > On 08/06/2013 07:36 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >>> ... >>> IETF 39 was in Munich (August 1997) Arabella&Sheraton @ >>> Arabella Park, and it was HOT pretty much the whole week. >> If I recall, another very successful meeting in a place we >> should go back to. > > I liked Munich as a destination. But the hotel / meeting facility in Berlin > far surpassed the Sheraton in Munich in every way imaginable. Dear Keith, Agreed. One minor downside was needing an additional flight. It seems AB who handles about a third of the traffic rather than Lufthansa that handles about one fifth, was not the best choice where a 6 hour layover extended an hour on the tarmac in a hot plane. Regards, Douglas Otis
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On 08/06/2013 07:36 PM, John C Klensin wrote: ... IETF 39 was in Munich (August 1997) Arabella&Sheraton @ Arabella Park, and it was HOT pretty much the whole week. If I recall, another very successful meeting in a place we should go back to. I liked Munich as a destination. But the hotel / meeting facility in Berlin far surpassed the Sheraton in Munich in every way imaginable. Keith
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
--On Wednesday, August 07, 2013 00:52 +0200 Martin Rex wrote: >... > IETF 39 was in Munich (August 1997) Arabella&Sheraton @ > Arabella Park, and it was HOT pretty much the whole week. If I recall, another very successful meeting in a place we should go back to. Now, if only the IAOC could work out a better weather contract for both Europe and, perhaps, a required March thaw in Minneapolis. john
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Martin Rex wrote: > Ulrich Herberg wrote: >> >> I think that the heat was exceptional. I have grown up in Munich, and >> I have rarely ever seen it that hot (either in Munich or Berlin). >> Maybe it's global warming? ;-) > > Damn coincidences! > > IETF 39 was in Munich (August 1997) Arabella&Sheraton @ Arabella Park, > and it was HOT pretty much the whole week. > Yes -- they said the same thing last time -- no need for ventilation since it never gets too hot here. I noticed the locals on the 200 bus to the beer festival were just as miserable as me. I stopped in a McDonalds for a diet coke, but the ice machine was broken. (I was told it was too hot for it to make ice. Since I was the only American in there, nobody noticed the ice machine didn't work but me ;-) I would still come back -- this was a great city for an IETF -- I just hope for once we get normal weather for July. > -Martin Andy
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Ulrich Herberg wrote: > > I think that the heat was exceptional. I have grown up in Munich, and > I have rarely ever seen it that hot (either in Munich or Berlin). > Maybe it's global warming? ;-) Damn coincidences! IETF 39 was in Munich (August 1997) Arabella&Sheraton @ Arabella Park, and it was HOT pretty much the whole week. -Martin
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
John, I think that the heat was exceptional. I have grown up in Munich, and I have rarely ever seen it that hot (either in Munich or Berlin). Maybe it's global warming? ;-) Ulrich On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 11:19 PM, John Levine wrote: >>Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, >>all-around great experience. Let's come again! > > Agreed. Great meeting overall, venue worked well, plenty of places > to eat and stay within reasonable distance, and suitable distractions > for those half days when you don't have any sessions. > > Perhaps next time we can come to Berlin sometime other than the middle > of the summer to avoid the heat issues. > > R's, > John
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
In article <6462.1375450...@sandelman.ca> you write: >-=-=-=-=-=- > > >Many countries let you claim VAT paid as you leave. Only on goods you export, not on hotels and meals. I hope the IETF can figure out how to more efficiently reclaim the VAT it pays on European expenses so the whole thing is a wash. R's, John
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
> Agreed. Great meeting overall, venue worked well, plenty of places > to eat and stay within reasonable distance, and suitable distractions > for those half days when you don't have any sessions. Hm. What are these meeting-free half-days of which you speak? Barry
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
>-1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't >even own a winter coat I expect you could get a very nice one at KaDeWe.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
>Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, >all-around great experience. Let's come again! Agreed. Great meeting overall, venue worked well, plenty of places to eat and stay within reasonable distance, and suitable distractions for those half days when you don't have any sessions. Perhaps next time we can come to Berlin sometime other than the middle of the summer to avoid the heat issues. R's, John
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Sat, Aug 03, 2013 at 03:39:27AM -0700, Greg Shepherd: > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:53 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the > > rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar > > ending up in my bathroom. > > > > Can I have my soap back? i wear shoes. > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Livingood, Jason < > > jason_living...@cable.comcast.com> wrote: > > > >> +1 > >> > >> > >> Very productive venue, easy to access city, several hotels near the venue > >> for alternatives, walkable area around the venue, lots of options for > >> restaurants, good public transit system, etc. And I enjoyed the social & > >> social venue as well (thanks DENIC)! > >> > >> I really do hope we return in the future - this location really has many > >> of the things we as participants like. > >> > >> Thank you very much to all of the sponsors and volunteers!! > >> > >> Jason > >> > >> On 8/2/13 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > >> > >> >Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > >> >great experience. Let's come again! > >> > > >> >(I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to > >> >step up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if > >> >the IETF meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next > >> >time, I hope.) > >> > > >> >Lars > >> > >> > >
AW: Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
*+1* Sent from my Galaxy S3. Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: ext Ted Lemon Datum: An: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" Cc: Carsten Bormann ,"ietf@ietf.org list" Betreff: Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:56 PM, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" wrote: > -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even > own a winter coat A winter coat used to be a prerequisite for attending winter IETF, and I don't think that's a bad thing. You can do quite well in a climate like Berlin's with a stylish suit coat and jacket, plus a scarf and gloves, if you prefer not to go the winter coat route. The styley route is much more expensive, but you can wear it on those days in LA when it's 50 degrees (f) out, rare though they may be. It's also good in San Francisco weather. Bottom line: IETF _probably_ shouldn't decide where to host its winter meetings on the basis of the completeness of your wardrobe... ;)
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:56 PM, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" wrote: > -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even > own a winter coat A winter coat used to be a prerequisite for attending winter IETF, and I don't think that's a bad thing. You can do quite well in a climate like Berlin's with a stylish suit coat and jacket, plus a scarf and gloves, if you prefer not to go the winter coat route. The styley route is much more expensive, but you can wear it on those days in LA when it's 50 degrees (f) out, rare though they may be. It's also good in San Francisco weather. Bottom line: IETF _probably_ shouldn't decide where to host its winter meetings on the basis of the completeness of your wardrobe... ;)
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
--On Friday, August 02, 2013 06:47 -0700 Randall Gellens wrote: > I can rattle off a very small number of hotels around the > world where they do wash in-room items in the restaurant > dishwasher. Or equivalent. Most of those seal the washed cups in paper or plastic to show that they have done so. Sadly from an environmental standpoint, there are fewer that do wash things that way than there were a decade or two ago: especially for a large hotel with many rooms it is simply cheaper to supply disposable paper and/or plastic cups in the rooms that it is to haul the glassware to the washing device, seal it, and haul it back to the rooms. It is a problem, but there is little point in blaming a single hotel -- it is a chain-wide and industry-wide economic and policy problem. Bring your own and/or wash your own. And, by the way, if you are sensitive to such things washing cups or glassware from which you intend to eat or drink with hand or bath soap is often not really optimal because of moisturizing or fragrance ingredients. A 100 ml bottle of dish soap goes a long way. john
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
> it's extremely common for in-room glassware and cups to be > washed by the housekeeper. If I don't see racks of clean glasses and cups > on the housekeeping carts, then I assume those in my room aren't clean, and > I use paper. Less environmentally friendly, sadly. I just wash the glasses myself before using them. I use the soap they left me from Mary's room. Barry
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:53 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the > rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar > ending up in my bathroom. > Can I have my soap back? > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Livingood, Jason < > jason_living...@cable.comcast.com> wrote: > >> +1 >> >> >> Very productive venue, easy to access city, several hotels near the venue >> for alternatives, walkable area around the venue, lots of options for >> restaurants, good public transit system, etc. And I enjoyed the social & >> social venue as well (thanks DENIC)! >> >> I really do hope we return in the future - this location really has many >> of the things we as participants like. >> >> Thank you very much to all of the sponsors and volunteers!! >> >> Jason >> >> On 8/2/13 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> >> >Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around >> >great experience. Let's come again! >> > >> >(I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to >> >step up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if >> >the IETF meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next >> >time, I hope.) >> > >> >Lars >> >> >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
I agree that the venue was awesome! I hope that they will complete the new airport still in this century, which would make it easier to reach Berlin. Ulrich On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 7:53 AM -0500 8/2/13, Mary Barnes wrote: > >> I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the >> rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar >> ending up in my bathroom. > > > Obviously, someone else's soap should never end up in your room, but > unfortunately, it's extremely common for in-room glassware and cups to be > washed by the housekeeper. If I don't see racks of clean glasses and cups > on the housekeeping carts, then I assume those in my room aren't clean, and > I use paper. Less environmentally friendly, sadly. > > I can rattle off a very small number of hotels around the world where they > do wash in-room items in the restaurant dishwasher. > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal;facts are suspect;I speak for myself only > -- Randomly selected tag: --- > Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
At 7:53 AM -0500 8/2/13, Mary Barnes wrote: I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar ending up in my bathroom. Obviously, someone else's soap should never end up in your room, but unfortunately, it's extremely common for in-room glassware and cups to be washed by the housekeeper. If I don't see racks of clean glasses and cups on the housekeeping carts, then I assume those in my room aren't clean, and I use paper. Less environmentally friendly, sadly. I can rattle off a very small number of hotels around the world where they do wash in-room items in the restaurant dishwasher. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal;facts are suspect;I speak for myself only -- Randomly selected tag: --- Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On 8/2/13 3:39 PM, Janet P Gunn wrote: > AFAIK, you can only get a VAT refund for GOODS you take with you, not > for the VAT on goods or services "consumed" in country. > > Janet > If I print the slides of the WG that I attend, does it do the trick? :D as
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > In the grand scheme of things, it's less than the room price for one night > (unless you're staying at some particularly cheap motel, and those are more > available in the US). The availability of less expensive nearby hotels was also a plus for the Berlin location, and is something that should be considered for any location. My hotel room (perfectly adequate and quite close to the IC) was far less per night than the amount of VAT imposed on the conference. Keith
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Hi, > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:04, Russ Housley > wrote: >> I have also enjoyed my time in Berlin. However, we need to complete the >> analysis on the impact of VAT. I hope there is a way to avoid a cost to >> each participant of an 19%. We heard in plenary that VAT clearly applies to >> conferences, but it may not apply to standards meeting. > > agreed. It's not just the 19% VAT. I found fares to Berlin several hundred USD more expensive than fares to other European cities. But I agree that the city and the hotel were a splendid location for an IETF conference. > > Snarky side comment: We should also analyze the impact of over-the-top > tipping customs in some countries :-) seems fair. Keith
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
AFAIK, you can only get a VAT refund for GOODS you take with you, not for the VAT on goods or services "consumed" in country. Janet ietf-boun...@ietf.org wrote on 08/02/2013 09:28:57 AM: > From: Michael Richardson > To: IAOC List , "ietf\@ietf.org list" > Date: 08/02/2013 09:31 AM > Subject: Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again > Sent by: ietf-boun...@ietf.org > > > Many countries let you claim VAT paid as you leave. > If we organized ourselves, then the whole issue of VAT could be neutral to > non-EC attendees. EC-attendees, likely can claim the VAT paid anyway. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > > > [attachment "attpcwe7.dat" deleted by Janet P Gunn/USA/CSC]
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Many countries let you claim VAT paid as you leave. If we organized ourselves, then the whole issue of VAT could be neutral to non-EC attendees. EC-attendees, likely can claim the VAT paid anyway. I just wish travel in the summer to Europe wasn't so expensive, and that the week didn't so often run right into the August long weekend, which for me, is a family weekend of the summer. It was the combination of the cost and the family impact that kept me from travelling. (Toronto next summer is a week earlier, and Prague in 2015 almost two weeks earlier) I'm glad to hear that the venue worked so well. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works pgpQWYg9aYN1n.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the > rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar > ending up in my bathroom. I never ever use hotel glassware.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
I'd even settle for winter. I can wear a coat, if necessary. Carrying an effective AC is far less practical, to say nothing of the extension cord... -=R On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Roberto Peon wrote: > > I'd just prefer a venue where we had temps in the various > conference/meeting rooms and facilities which were reliably below 80 > degrees Fahrenheit. > > So, Autumn IETF in Berlin? > > :) > >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Roberto Peon wrote: > I'd just prefer a venue where we had temps in the various conference/meeting > rooms and facilities which were reliably below 80 degrees Fahrenheit. So, Autumn IETF in Berlin? :)
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Yes, I meant to say the last time we were there in November (since that was what we were talking about). On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > It was snowing the last time we were in Vancouver. While the snow melted > > quickly, the temp was quite brisk. There are many restaurants within > > walking distance so you would be wise to bring some layers of outerwear > > along with gloves, a hat and scarf. > > > > Mary > > > > No, last time we were in Vancouver was August last year. It was > actually quite hot on some days and it most certainly DID not snow. > > If you mean "last time we were in Vancouver in NOVEMBER, then yes. > > Ole >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
I'd just prefer a venue where we had temps in the various conference/meeting rooms and facilities which were reliably below 80 degrees Fahrenheit. I looked around a number of times while in various meetings, and a large number of people were sweating (including myself). -=R On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > It was snowing the last time we were in Vancouver. While the snow melted > > quickly, the temp was quite brisk. There are many restaurants within > > walking distance so you would be wise to bring some layers of outerwear > > along with gloves, a hat and scarf. > > > > Mary > > > > No, last time we were in Vancouver was August last year. It was > actually quite hot on some days and it most certainly DID not snow. > > If you mean "last time we were in Vancouver in NOVEMBER, then yes. > > Ole >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Overall, I agree that it was a good venue for getting work done overall. >From my perspective, I would have preferred all the rooms be around the temperature that we had in the Charlottenbergs. Also, food was very hit or miss for me. The hotel breakfast was fine. I had two dinners that I am confident were GF - one I had Lars to translate and the other was a restaurant that specializes in GF. The catering at the receptions was also fairly decent in that respect. The food served at snacks wasn't acceptable other than Monday, when they plenty of nice veggies. The only other day they had veggies, they ran out well before the cookies. The snacks with sandwiches didn't work at all. Yesterday when they had cheese and crackers - there was a huge issue with cross contamination. However, since there were nearby markets that wasn't that big of a deal. I did have some annoyances with the housekeeping, in particular the rewashing of glasses/mugs in the bathroom sink and someone else's soap bar ending up in my bathroom. The social was great overall. Mary. On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Livingood, Jason < jason_living...@cable.comcast.com> wrote: > +1 > > > Very productive venue, easy to access city, several hotels near the venue > for alternatives, walkable area around the venue, lots of options for > restaurants, good public transit system, etc. And I enjoyed the social & > social venue as well (thanks DENIC)! > > I really do hope we return in the future - this location really has many > of the things we as participants like. > > Thank you very much to all of the sponsors and volunteers!! > > Jason > > On 8/2/13 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > > >Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > >great experience. Let's come again! > > > >(I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to > >step up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if > >the IETF meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next > >time, I hope.) > > > >Lars > >
RE: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Mutter. IETF 87 It was warm in Berlin IETF 84 Hot sun. Got sunburn on Saturday before IETF IETF 70 Snowed a little in Vancouver. Reasonable skiing the week after. IETF 64 Rain, rain, more rain. Got very wet feet walking from non-IETF hotel. Bought boots. Adrian > -Original Message- > From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ole > Jacobsen > Sent: 02 August 2013 13:40 > To: Mary Barnes > Cc: Carsten Bormann; ietf@ietf.org list > Subject: Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again > > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mary Barnes wrote: > > > It was snowing the last time we were in Vancouver. While the snow melted > > quickly, the temp was quite brisk. There are many restaurants within > > walking distance so you would be wise to bring some layers of outerwear > > along with gloves, a hat and scarf. > > > > Mary > > > > No, last time we were in Vancouver was August last year. It was > actually quite hot on some days and it most certainly DID not snow. > > If you mean "last time we were in Vancouver in NOVEMBER, then yes. > > Ole
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mary Barnes wrote: > It was snowing the last time we were in Vancouver. While the snow melted > quickly, the temp was quite brisk. There are many restaurants within > walking distance so you would be wise to bring some layers of outerwear > along with gloves, a hat and scarf. > > Mary > No, last time we were in Vancouver was August last year. It was actually quite hot on some days and it most certainly DID not snow. If you mean "last time we were in Vancouver in NOVEMBER, then yes. Ole
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
> Very productive venue, easy to access city, several hotels near the venue > for alternatives, walkable area around the venue, lots of options for > restaurants, good public transit system, etc. And I enjoyed the social & > social venue as well (thanks DENIC)! > > I really do hope we return in the future - this location really has many > of the things we as participants like. > > Thank you very much to all of the sponsors and volunteers!! Jason said it better than I can. Absolutely agree. The other thing that I wanted to say was that I'd caution people for jumping into simplistic conclusions about the VAT. Companies generally can recover VAT, for instance, of the expenses their employees have. But I'm not a VAT lawyer, so YMMV. Jari
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
It was snowing the last time we were in Vancouver. While the snow melted quickly, the temp was quite brisk. There are many restaurants within walking distance so you would be wise to bring some layers of outerwear along with gloves, a hat and scarf. Mary On Friday, August 2, 2013, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > Vancouver will be great. I'm looking forward to it. The pacific helps keep > it moderate during winter unless you go up in elevation such as the local > mountains. > > Glenn > > Sent from my cell, please forgive the typos > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" > > wrote: > > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:56, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" < > glenn.d...@nbcuni.com > > > wrote: > >> -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't > even own a winter coat > > > > You are not going to like going to Vancouver for IETF-88... > > > > Lars >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Temperature Moderate - and wet and foggy. If you like to see the sun then you are unlikely to be happy in Vancouver in November. - Original Message - From: Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) [mailto:glenn.d...@nbcuni.com] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 07:05 AM Central Standard Time To: Eggert, Lars Cc: Carsten Bormann ; ietf@ietf.org list Subject: Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again Vancouver will be great. I'm looking forward to it. The pacific helps keep it moderate during winter unless you go up in elevation such as the local mountains. Glenn Sent from my cell, please forgive the typos On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:56, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" > wrote: >> -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even >> own a winter coat > > You are not going to like going to Vancouver for IETF-88... > > Lars - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Vancouver will be great. I'm looking forward to it. The pacific helps keep it moderate during winter unless you go up in elevation such as the local mountains. Glenn Sent from my cell, please forgive the typos On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:56, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" > wrote: >> -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even >> own a winter coat > > You are not going to like going to Vancouver for IETF-88... > > Lars
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:56, "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" wrote: > -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even > own a winter coat You are not going to like going to Vancouver for IETF-88... Lars signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
+1 on visiting Berlin again -1 on doing it during the winter speaking as a Californian who doesn't even own a winter coat Sent from my iPad, please forgive any tpyos or auto connections On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:51 PM, "Scott Brim" wrote: > On 08/02/13 13:02, Carsten Bormann allegedly wrote: >> The venue for this meeting was very productive, with few things getting in >> the way. >> It also simply was pleasant. >> >> Indeed, let's come again! >> >> Grüße, Carsten > > +1 > > It would work even in winter. >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On 08/02/13 13:02, Carsten Bormann allegedly wrote: > The venue for this meeting was very productive, with few things getting in > the way. > It also simply was pleasant. > > Indeed, let's come again! > > Grüße, Carsten +1 It would work even in winter.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
+1 Very productive venue, easy to access city, several hotels near the venue for alternatives, walkable area around the venue, lots of options for restaurants, good public transit system, etc. And I enjoyed the social & social venue as well (thanks DENIC)! I really do hope we return in the future - this location really has many of the things we as participants like. Thank you very much to all of the sponsors and volunteers!! Jason On 8/2/13 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around >great experience. Let's come again! > >(I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to >step up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if >the IETF meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next >time, I hope.) > >Lars
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On 2 August 2013 13:04, Yoav Nir wrote: >> There's the slight matter of $123.50 in VAT. > > This was such a good meeting, I think that I could justify paying > extra to cover VAT. I agree, but it's easy for me to agree, as all the expense goes to my employer. > That is, assuming that the implicit thesis in the above is correct. > Namely, that attendee fee income exceed the meeting costs that also > include VAT such that they can be later recovered. I'm not sure we > can know the answer to that question just yet, so I'm not certain that > the VAT thing is something that should influence any decision to > return. In the grand scheme of things, it's less than the room price for one night (unless you're staying at some particularly cheap motel, and those are more available in the US).
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2013, at 1:11 PM, "Russ Housley" wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > I have also enjoyed my time in Berlin. However, we need to complete the > analysis on the impact of VAT. I hope there is a way to avoid a cost to each > participant of an 19%. > We heard in plenary that VAT clearly applies to conferences, but it may not > apply to standards meeting. > To clarify, that was an opinion from before any recent rule changes. Whether the situation has changed is under review ATM. > Russ > > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > >> Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around >> great experience. Let's come again! >> >> (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step >> up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF >> meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) >> >> Lars > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) > Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAlH7klgACgkQiuTu0PWcEcu0QQCdG27kU3gnthbQ35aq9esnpQ0k > SxMAoPvdKtJ8zKbUpcsxPNxKCOAGeiv0 > =HRQG > -END PGP SIGNATURE- >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! +1 As venues go, this was a good one.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On 2 August 2013 13:04, Yoav Nir wrote: > There's the slight matter of $123.50 in VAT. This was such a good meeting, I think that I could justify paying extra to cover VAT. That is, assuming that the implicit thesis in the above is correct. Namely, that attendee fee income exceed the meeting costs that also include VAT such that they can be later recovered. I'm not sure we can know the answer to that question just yet, so I'm not certain that the VAT thing is something that should influence any decision to return.
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On 8/2/13 12:58 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! > > (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step up > to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF meets > in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) There were many great sponsors stepped up they should be appreciated for their generosity. Sometimes it's hard to hard to find a host, that's not a reflection those who have invested time/energy/capital in making the meeting a success. > Lars
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
It seems likely that the VAT problem will affect all European (or at least EU) meetings. On Aug 2, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > There's the slight matter of $123.50 in VAT. > > To me personally that is minor compared with the much lower price of a flight > to Germany as compared with a flight to the US. But for people working in the > US, there's the more expensive flight, and the more expensive meeting. > > Yoav > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > >> Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around >> great experience. Let's come again! >> >> (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step >> up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF >> meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) >> >> Lars > >
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Hi, On Aug 2, 2013, at 13:04, Russ Housley wrote: > I have also enjoyed my time in Berlin. However, we need to complete the > analysis on the impact of VAT. I hope there is a way to avoid a cost to each > participant of an 19%. We heard in plenary that VAT clearly applies to > conferences, but it may not apply to standards meeting. agreed. Snarky side comment: We should also analyze the impact of over-the-top tipping customs in some countries :-) Lars signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have also enjoyed my time in Berlin. However, we need to complete the analysis on the impact of VAT. I hope there is a way to avoid a cost to each participant of an 19%. We heard in plenary that VAT clearly applies to conferences, but it may not apply to standards meeting. Russ On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! > > (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step up > to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF meets > in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) > > Lars -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlH7klgACgkQiuTu0PWcEcu0QQCdG27kU3gnthbQ35aq9esnpQ0k SxMAoPvdKtJ8zKbUpcsxPNxKCOAGeiv0 =HRQG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
There's the slight matter of $123.50 in VAT. To me personally that is minor compared with the much lower price of a flight to Germany as compared with a flight to the US. But for people working in the US, there's the more expensive flight, and the more expensive meeting. Yoav On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:58 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! > > (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step up > to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF meets > in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) > > Lars
Re: Berlin was awesome, let's come again
On Aug 2, 2013, at 12:58, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around > great experience. Let's come again! I'm a big fan of Prague, but I agree that that has now got a rival. The venue for this meeting was very productive, with few things getting in the way. It also simply was pleasant. Indeed, let's come again! Grüße, Carsten
Berlin was awesome, let's come again
Venue was great, food options here and in the city were great, all-around great experience. Let's come again! (I do kinda wonder how there wasn't a single local company willing to step up to be the host. That's embarrassing to me as a German, esp. if the IETF meets in the self-declared IT hub of Germany. Better luck next time, I hope.) Lars signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
