Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
On rereading, my previous reply could have been better formulated.. --On 1. august 2005 12:42 -0400 Eric Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, In American vernacular, this procedure is known as cronyism. Generally, one doesn't expect to see this advocated in a public forum ;-) The selection mechanism I advocated was the following (quoted from the expired draft): 5. Details All members of the leadership are selected by the nomcom for membership in an area. The nomcom also selects which member is supervisor and vice supervisor for an area. [UNCERTAIN]The supervisor may also be selected by the members of the council, or by other means. Yearly selection by the council? It's also been suggested that instead of nomcom selecting everyone, the leadership team can make selections to the area councils, based on recommendations from the area supervisor. This would not increase the load on the nomcom as much as envisaged here. [/UNCERTAIN] Special care should be taken that the composition of area teams and the leadership team results in functional teams. (The term area supervisor is a concept that is a successor to the current term AD - the draft tried to use new names to point out that things changed.) One core difference between this idea and directorates is that directorates serve, explicitly, at the pleasure of an AD; ADs can create, disband or replace directorates without any public input or control. Your concern is one reason why the idea was different. Note that nothing here prevents the nomcom from picking people outside the council to be supervisor; if all is well, common sense would say that they don't, but when things are not well, they should have the power (IMHO). But the idea didn't generate any groundswell of let's do it, either in the community or in the IESG, so I turned to fixing things that were more obviously broken, with more obvious fixes. Harald ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
--On 27. juli 2005 09:08 -0400 Joel M. Halpern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to disagree somewhat with this line suggesting stricter limits on serving duration. I agree that a lack of bench strength is a real problem that should be addressed. I suspect that we may have more bench strength than we think. I strongly suspect that with some of the other changes being discussed (I like the separate review idea, although I think it needs some work) there will be more capability to do more sane jobs. However, defining the process so taht if we turn out to have insufficient bench strength we produce a disaster seems extremely bad design. I have argued at times (draft-iesg-alvestrand-twolevel) that our current structure of 2 area-specific ADs managing a bunch of WG-specific WG chairs is not optimal. If the *normal* case for an area was that one had a group of 5-10 area experts, one (or two) of which was serving as AD at any time, and the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, I think our bench strength would be greatly increased. It would also make a lot of the arguments for 2-AD areas less convincing. But that's entirely orthogonal to draft-klensin-nomcom-terms, which is why I changed the subject. Harald ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
I have argued at times (draft-iesg-alvestrand-twolevel) that our current structure of 2 area-specific ADs managing a bunch of WG-specific WG chairs is not optimal. Yeah, and I wish it hadn't expired ... perhaps we could try again, now that Harald has some time on his retired-AD hands? It is orthogonal, but I liked it a couple of years ago ... Spencer ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, In American vernacular, this procedure is known as cronyism. Generally, one doesn't expect to see this advocated in a public forum ;-) ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, In American vernacular, this procedure is known as cronyism. Generally, one doesn't expect to see this advocated in a public forum ;-) I'm thinking the idea might be closer to... Each AD creates a staff of volunteers underneath themselves to help with all the pesky details of running the IESG. (and in the mean time - they get help from 2-3 additional people that they are working closely with) From there each AD could say that in the last 6 months of my term person A was really running the show anyway - why don't we let them be the AD for a while, and I will get back to productive IETF work (or become their assistant for a while). Now we have a group of people that knows what they are getting into when they finally put that yellow dot on. Another alternative might be rolling terms for each AD, with a (sorry incoming Intel lingo here) two-in-a-box approach. As a new AD is approved, the term overlaps with the Old AD for a year. Then they can serve as long as they want - with the caviat they are expected to give a year notification so they can serve the last year of their term with the new incoming AD. (this might just naturally shorten the terms as people realize it is easier to do the job as a pair than all alone G) Bill ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
--On 1. august 2005 12:42 -0400 Eric Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, In American vernacular, this procedure is known as cronyism. Generally, one doesn't expect to see this advocated in a public forum ;-) please read the draft this margin is not wide enough to contain the proof that it isn't :-) ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: Let's make the benches longer.... (Re: draft-klensin-nomcom-term-00.txt)
On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 12:42:30PM -0400, Eric Rosen wrote: the normal process for AD replacement involved choosing which of the people who had worked with the AD for a long time could do the job this time, In American vernacular, this procedure is known as cronyism. Generally, one doesn't expect to see this advocated in a public forum ;-) In the corporate world, it's called succession planning, and part the responsibilities and duties of every responsible leader. We actually have something rather close to this already, which is the various Area Directorates. Different areas seem to have different levels of health in terms of how active the directorate is, how formal is directorate membership, and how much work gets delegated from the AD(s) to the directorate. - Ted ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
