Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[IETF Chair]

After a very brief consultation with the IESG, I have asked the Secretariat to 
block the verywarmc...@gmail.com email address from further posting to this 
mail list, and I have asked the Secretariat to delete the message from the mail 
list archive so that searches will not bring it up.

On behalf of the IESG,
Russ Housley

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

Hi Carlos,

As already reported by others, this is clearly offensive and I'm
Requesting, as sergeant-at-arms, the secretariat to take you out of the
list immediately.

Regards,
Jordi






-Mensaje original-
De: Carlos Caliente 
Responder a: 
Fecha: martes, 6 de noviembre de 2012 17:01
Para: 
Asunto: Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

>Yo, add my name, too.  Now.
>
>I'm NomCom eligible and shit according to RFC 3777, and the last time I
>talked at Marshall was at the Philly plenary a few years ago and he was a
>total dick.  I don't give seven fucks if he blows his brains out because
>he loses his title, I want him gone.  The IETF will be better off without
>him, just like Earth.
>
>Good riddance, Marshall.



**
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or 
confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the 
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that 
any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information, including attached files, is prohibited.

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Carlos Caliente]

Yo, add my name, too.  Now.

I'm NomCom eligible and shit according to RFC 3777, and the last time I
talked at Marshall was at the Philly plenary a few years ago and he was a
total dick.  I don't give seven fucks if he blows his brains out because he
loses his title, I want him gone.  The IETF will be better off without him,
just like Earth.

Good riddance, Marshall.

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Wes Hardaker]

Olafur Gudmundsson  writes:

> If you agree with this petition please either comment on this posting,

With regret, if you still need more signatures, you can add my name to
the list and I am nomcom eligible.
-- 
Wes Hardaker
SPARTA, Inc.

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[SM]

At 10:39 01-11-2012, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
As this never been attempted before, by collecting the "signatures" 
myself, checking the NomCom eligibility and diversity in 
organizations as required by RFC3777, I hoped to


There seems to be some misunderstanding about NomCom eligibility.  It 
might help Olafur if people double-check RFC 3777 to ensure that they 
fulfill the requirements for NomCom eligibility.  There is also the 
"oral tradition" side ...


Regards,
-sm 

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Tobias Gondrom]

Thank you Russ for the clarification and info.

I am Nomcom-eligible and you can add me to the signature list, i.e. I 
support the recall.


Best regards, Tobias




On 04/11/12 09:15, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote:

Thanks for extra info.

You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.

Bert


--On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
 wrote:


John:


I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
that process to proceed as far as I can tell.


Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
petition process is complete.

I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
(or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
relevant committee is appointed.


At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
that there were three possibilities:

1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
2) Resign;
3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.

Russ

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[ALAIN AINA]

Olafur,

Add me to the  signature list. I am NomCom elligible

--Alain

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Livingood, Jason]

suppose = support (if you were an auto-correct program)


G...

On 11/4/12 5:59 PM, "Livingood, Jason" 
wrote:

>Same here. I'm noncom-eligible and suppose the recall.
>
>
>Jason Livingood
>
>On 11/4/12 11:45 AM, "Arturo Servin"  wrote:
>
>>
>>  Thanks for the information to have a better decision.
>>
>>  I am Nomcom-eligible and you can add me to the signature list.
>>
>>
>>/Arturo Servin
>>
>>
>>On 04/11/2012 12:15, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote:
>>> Thanks for extra info.
>>> 
>>> You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.
>>> 
>>> Bert
>>> 
 --On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
  wrote:

> John:
>
>>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
>>> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
>>> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
>>> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
>>
>> Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
>> recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
>> people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
>> that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
>> initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
>> his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
>> is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
>> petition process is complete.
>>
>> I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
>> (or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
>> presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
>> relevant committee is appointed.
>
> At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
> that there were three possibilities:
>
> 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
> 2) Resign;
> 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.
>
> Russ





>

RE: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)]

Same here. The decision is independent of Marshall's previous
contributions.

Cheers, 
Mehmet 


> -Original Message-
> From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of ext Bert
> Wijnen (IETF)
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 3:15 PM
> To: Olafur Gudmundsson
> Cc: IETF-Discussion list
> Subject: Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks
> 
> Thanks for extra info.
> 
> You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.
> 
> Bert
> 
> > --On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> John:
> >>
> >>>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
> >>>> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
> >>>> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
> >>>> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
> >>>
> >>> Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
> >>> recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
> >>> people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
> >>> that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
> >>> initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
> >>> his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
> >>> is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
> >>> petition process is complete.
> >>>
> >>> I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
> >>> (or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
> >>> presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
> >>> relevant committee is appointed.
> >>
> >> At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
> >> that there were three possibilities:
> >>
> >> 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
> >> 2) Resign;
> >> 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.
> >>
> >> Russ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Livingood, Jason]

Same here. I'm noncom-eligible and suppose the recall.


Jason Livingood

On 11/4/12 11:45 AM, "Arturo Servin"  wrote:

>
>   Thanks for the information to have a better decision.
>
>   I am Nomcom-eligible and you can add me to the signature list.
>
>
>/Arturo Servin
>
>
>On 04/11/2012 12:15, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote:
>> Thanks for extra info.
>> 
>> You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.
>> 
>> Bert
>> 
>>> --On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 John:

>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
>> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
>> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
>> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
>
> Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
> recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
> people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
> that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
> initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
> his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
> is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
> petition process is complete.
>
> I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
> (or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
> presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
> relevant committee is appointed.

 At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
 that there were three possibilities:

 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
 2) Resign;
 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.

 Russ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Arturo Servin]

Thanks for the information to have a better decision.

I am Nomcom-eligible and you can add me to the signature list.


/Arturo Servin


On 04/11/2012 12:15, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote:
> Thanks for extra info.
> 
> You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.
> 
> Bert
> 
>> --On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.

 Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
 recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
 people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
 that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
 initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
 his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
 is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
 petition process is complete.

 I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
 (or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
 presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
 relevant committee is appointed.
>>>
>>> At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
>>> that there were three possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
>>> 2) Resign;
>>> 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.
>>>
>>> Russ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Bert Wijnen (IETF)]

Thanks for extra info.

You can add me to the list who sign the request for recall.

Bert


--On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
 wrote:


John:


I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
that process to proceed as far as I can tell.


Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
petition process is complete.

I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
(or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
relevant committee is appointed.


At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
that there were three possibilities:

1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
2) Resign;
3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.

Russ

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[John C Klensin]

Russ,
Thanks very much for the clarification.

Olafur,
Go ahead and add me to the signature list.  I am Nomcom-eligible.
john


--On Saturday, 03 November, 2012 11:36 -0400 Russ Housley
 wrote:

> John:
> 
>>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
>>> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
>>> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
>>> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
>> 
>> Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
>> recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
>> people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood
>> that, if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
>> initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
>> his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
>> is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
>> petition process is complete.
>> 
>> I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort
>> (or several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
>> presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
>> relevant committee is appointed.
> 
> At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood
> that there were three possibilities:
> 
> 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
> 2) Resign;
> 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.
> 
> Russ

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Turchanyi Geza]

All,

Many tahanks for the clarification, the situation is clear enough.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Russ Housley  wrote:

> John:
> 
>
> At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood that there
> were three possibilities:
>
> 1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
> 2) Resign;
> 3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.
>
> Russ


There will be enough people to sign the petition, and the sanity of the
IETF will be kept.

Will be any one helping Marshall Eubanks to recover from his shocked state?

I would be very gratefull,

Géza

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Paul Hoffman]

I am NomCom-eligible and I "sign" this petition.

--Paul Hoffman

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Russ Housley]

John:

>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
>> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
>> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
>> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
> 
> Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
> recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
> people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood that,
> if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
> initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
> his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
> is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
> petition process is complete.
> 
> I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort (or
> several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
> presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
> relevant committee is appointed.

At the end of our visit, I believe that Marshall understood that there were 
three possibilities:

1) Tell the community that he intends to resume participation;
2) Resign;
3) Do nothing, which would very likely result in a recall.

Russ

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[John C Klensin]

--On Thursday, 01 November, 2012 22:22 -0400 Michael StJohns
 wrote:

> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the
> recall option?  If not, please be very clear about it to the
> list as I haven't actually seen a request from the IAOC for
> that process to proceed as far as I can tell.

Because I am personally very reluctant to see this handled by
recall, I want to ask a slightly different question:  Are the
people who met with Marshall convinced that he understood that,
if he did not resign, a recall was almost certain to be
initiated as our next step.  If the answer is "yes", he's made
his choice and I am ok with signing the petition.   If not, it
is possible that more discussion would be in order after the
petition process is complete.

I hope that, when Lynn accepts the petitions, another effort (or
several) will be made to et Marshall's attention -- it
presumably is not too late for him to resign until after the
relevant committee is appointed.

   john

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Bob Hinden]

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:39 AM, Scott O Bradner wrote:

> 
> I have not "signed" the petition because I did not think it was proper to do 
> so (as a IAOC member - see Russ's message and RFC 3777)
> 
> but, that aside, I do support the petition - I feel that the IAOC has given 
> Marshal
> the full opportunity to start participating again or to resign and he has 
> done neither -
> it is time to move

+1

Bob


> 
> Scott
> 
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Michael StJohns  wrote:
> 
>> At 06:01 PM 11/1/2012, Bob Hinden wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you.  The 
>>> situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the recall option?  If 
>> not, please be very clear about it to the list as I haven't actually seen a 
>> request from the IAOC for that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
>> 
>> If you'd rather just wait from him to resign, if in fact he does, then 
>> please indicate that.  I believe neither you nor Dave Crocker nor Scott 
>> Bradner (the only IOAC members that I think have commented on this issue on 
>> list so far) have actually specifically asked for or signed the recall on 
>> the list. 
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I too hope he will resign.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Scott O Bradner]

I have not "signed" the petition because I did not think it was proper to do so 
(as a IAOC member - see Russ's message and RFC 3777)

but, that aside, I do support the petition - I feel that the IAOC has given 
Marshal
the full opportunity to start participating again or to resign and he has done 
neither -
it is time to move

Scott

On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Michael StJohns  wrote:

> At 06:01 PM 11/1/2012, Bob Hinden wrote:
> 
> 
>> While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you.  The 
>> situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the recall option?  If 
> not, please be very clear about it to the list as I haven't actually seen a 
> request from the IAOC for that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
> 
> If you'd rather just wait from him to resign, if in fact he does, then please 
> indicate that.  I believe neither you nor Dave Crocker nor Scott Bradner (the 
> only IOAC members that I think have commented on this issue on list so far) 
> have actually specifically asked for or signed the recall on the list. 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> I too hope he will resign.
>> 
>> Bob
> 
> 

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Henk Uijterwaal]

On 01/11/2012 19:43, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
> 
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
> 
>> I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case pragmatism
>> doesn't prevail (see my other note).
>>
>> My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as reflecting an 
>> opinion
>> about Marshall's character.
> 
> Ditto, and Ditto. 

+1 and +1.

Henk


-- 
--
Henk Uijterwaal   Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl
  http://www.uijterwaal.nl
  Phone: +31.6.55861746
--

Read my blog at http://www.uijterwaal.nl/henks_hands.html

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Turchanyi Geza]

Brian,

I would like to express my sadness as well, adding that I am most probably
not NomCom eligible.

I was only 23 when one of my freinds, community activist in the students
circle of the university, committed a suicide. Three years later it
happened again, by one other freind of us.

I feel that there is a danger that this might happen again, especially in
this case.

Apparently Marshall still think that he could return to his IETF work in
the near future. How could we help him, this is my question, How can we
taylor the rules of our work, allowing to go for a sabbatical period and
return later, with quick reintegration?

Á bientot,

Géza




On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Brian E Carpenter <
brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 01/11/2012 21:45, Sam Hartman wrote:
> ...
> > At this point, I believe the recall process is the correct process to
> > follow unless there is an approved BCP update.
> > In a case where there's been no contact and there's an argument we've
> > found a gap in the procedures I can see the argument for creativity.
> > However, according to Bob's note, Marshall has been contacted and rather
> > than resigning, said he would consider resigning.
> > I hope he does.
> > Until he does, though, by considering resigning rather than resigning,
> > he has implied that there might be a reason not to resign.
> > In my mind that moves us out of a situation where creative
> > interpretations of vacancy are appropriate.
>
> I agree, with some sadness.
>
> (I am, as it happens, not NomCom eligible right now.)
>
>  Brian
>

RE: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Stephen Hanna]

I also, with regret, would like to add my name to the recall
petition. I am NomCom eligible.

Thanks,

Steve

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Brian E Carpenter]

On 01/11/2012 21:45, Sam Hartman wrote:
...
> At this point, I believe the recall process is the correct process to
> follow unless there is an approved BCP update.
> In a case where there's been no contact and there's an argument we've
> found a gap in the procedures I can see the argument for creativity.
> However, according to Bob's note, Marshall has been contacted and rather
> than resigning, said he would consider resigning.
> I hope he does.
> Until he does, though, by considering resigning rather than resigning,
> he has implied that there might be a reason not to resign.
> In my mind that moves us out of a situation where creative
> interpretations of vacancy are appropriate.

I agree, with some sadness.

(I am, as it happens, not NomCom eligible right now.)

 Brian

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Russ Housley]

Mike:

As Joel already said, the recall process is not dependent on the wishes of the 
IAOC.

Further, please note that IAB, IESG, and IAOC members cannot be recall petition 
signers.  RFC 3777 says:

 1.  At any time, at least 20 members of the IETF community, who are
 qualified to be voting members of a nominating committee, may
 request by signed petition (email is acceptable) to the Internet
 Society President the recall of any sitting IAB or IESG member.

According to RFC 3777, sitting members of the IESG and IAB are not qualified to 
be voting members of NomCom.  And, there is a long-standing tradition that IAOC 
members will not serve on NomCom.  There is also an I-D that just finished IETF 
Last Call to formally exclude IAOC members from serving on NomCom.

Russ


On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Michael StJohns wrote:
> At 06:01 PM 11/1/2012, Bob Hinden wrote:
>> While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you.  The 
>> situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall.
> 
> I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the recall option?  If 
> not, please be very clear about it to the list as I haven't actually seen a 
> request from the IAOC for that process to proceed as far as I can tell.
> 
> If you'd rather just wait from him to resign, if in fact he does, then please 
> indicate that.  I believe neither you nor Dave Crocker nor Scott Bradner (the 
> only IOAC members that I think have commented on this issue on list so far) 
> have actually specifically asked for or signed the recall on the list. 
> 
> Mike

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 05:45:11PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:

> found a gap in the procedures I can see the argument for creativity.
> However, according to Bob's note, Marshall has been contacted and rather
> than resigning, said he would consider resigning.
[…]
> In my mind that moves us out of a situation where creative
> interpretations of vacancy are appropriate.

I agree with Sam Hartman's reasoning, and so I unhappily add my name
to those willing to support recall.  I also hope continuing with this
can be avoided by the expedient of Marshall's resignation.  I am
Nomcom eligible.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@anvilwalrusden.com

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Joel Jaeggli]

Mike,

A 3777 recall isn't dependent on the wishes of the IAOC...

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 1, 2012, at 19:22, Michael StJohns  wrote:

> 

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Michael StJohns]

At 06:01 PM 11/1/2012, Bob Hinden wrote:


>While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you.  The 
>situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall.




I assume at this point the IAOC would like to pursue the recall option?  If 
not, please be very clear about it to the list as I haven't actually seen a 
request from the IAOC for that process to proceed as far as I can tell.

If you'd rather just wait from him to resign, if in fact he does, then please 
indicate that.  I believe neither you nor Dave Crocker nor Scott Bradner (the 
only IOAC members that I think have commented on this issue on list so far) 
have actually specifically asked for or signed the recall on the list. 

Mike





>I too hope he will resign.
>
>Bob

Re: [IETF] Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Warren Kumari]

On Nov 1, 2012, at 6:57 PM, "John R Levine"  wrote:

>> As a small point of procedures, no one is sending an actual signature.
>> 
>> It therefore would provide a modicum of better assurance for signatories to 
>> send the email that declares their signature directly to the ISOC President 
>> rather than to the person initiating the recall.
> 
> If you're concerned that some of the 20 people who Olafur says signed his 
> petition did not actually do so, please say that.  If there's some other 
> problem, what is it?
> 
> Or if you're worried about unsigned or forged mail, why are you assuming that 
> any of the messages on this list are real?  The list software uses only the 
> easily faked From: line to verify senders.




> 
> R's,
> John

--
Some people are like Slinkies..Not really good for anything but they still 
bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[John R Levine]

As a small point of procedures, no one is sending an actual signature.

It therefore would provide a modicum of better assurance for signatories to 
send the email that declares their signature directly to the ISOC President 
rather than to the person initiating the recall.


If you're concerned that some of the 20 people who Olafur says signed his 
petition did not actually do so, please say that.  If there's some other 
problem, what is it?


Or if you're worried about unsigned or forged mail, why are you assuming 
that any of the messages on this list are real?  The list software uses 
only the easily faked From: line to verify senders.


R's,
John

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Bob Hinden]

Sam,

On Nov 1, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Sam Hartman wrote:

> I offer my signature to the recall petition. I am nomcom eligible.
> 
> At this point, I believe the recall process is the correct process to
> follow unless there is an approved BCP update.
> In a case where there's been no contact and there's an argument we've
> found a gap in the procedures I can see the argument for creativity.
> However, according to Bob's note, Marshall has been contacted and rather
> than resigning, said he would consider resigning.
> I hope he does.
> Until he does, though, by considering resigning rather than resigning,
> he has implied that there might be a reason not to resign.
> In my mind that moves us out of a situation where creative
> interpretations of vacancy are appropriate.
> I think we're now in a position where there's a legitimate disagreement
> between Marshall and some members of the community about whether
> Marshall ought to be in his position.
> I believe the recall process is the only existing tool we have for
> resolving such a disagreement; I think permitting the IAOC to invent a
> process for resolving such a disagreement without an approved BCP is
> entirely inappropriate.
> 
> Again, I hope this can all be side stepped by a resignation.


While the IAOC has not discussed this formally, I agree with you.  The 
situation did change when we were able to talk with Marshall.

I too hope he will resign.

Bob

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Sam Hartman]

I offer my signature to the recall petition. I am nomcom eligible.

At this point, I believe the recall process is the correct process to
follow unless there is an approved BCP update.
In a case where there's been no contact and there's an argument we've
found a gap in the procedures I can see the argument for creativity.
However, according to Bob's note, Marshall has been contacted and rather
than resigning, said he would consider resigning.
I hope he does.
Until he does, though, by considering resigning rather than resigning,
he has implied that there might be a reason not to resign.
In my mind that moves us out of a situation where creative
interpretations of vacancy are appropriate.
I think we're now in a position where there's a legitimate disagreement
between Marshall and some members of the community about whether
Marshall ought to be in his position.
I believe the recall process is the only existing tool we have for
resolving such a disagreement; I think permitting the IAOC to invent a
process for resolving such a disagreement without an approved BCP is
entirely inappropriate.

Again, I hope this can all be side stepped by a resignation.

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Eliot Lear]

+1.


On 11/1/12 5:32 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
> I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case
> pragmatism doesn't prevail (see my other note).
>
> My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as reflecting an
> opinion about Marshall's character.
>
>

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[James Polk]

At 01:43 PM 11/1/2012, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:


On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:

I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case 
pragmatism doesn't prevail (see my other note).


My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as reflecting 
an opinion about Marshall's character.


exactly how I feel, and I am Nomcom eligible (37 out of 39).

James



Ditto, and Ditto.

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Jaap Akkerhuis]

On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:

I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case
pragmatism doesn't prevail (see my other note).

My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as
reflecting an opinion about Marshall's character.

The same offer from me.

jaap

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Fred Baker (fred)]

On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:

I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case pragmatism 
doesn't prevail (see my other note).

My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as reflecting an opinion 
about Marshall's character.

Ditto, and Ditto.

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Olafur Gudmundsson]

On 01/11/2012 14:08, Dave Crocker wrote:



On 11/1/2012 10:52 AM, Michael StJohns wrote:

Per Olafur's email, I submitted my signature directly to him, along with
my Nomcom eligibility status.  I'm sure other's did as well, so you
shouldn't take the absence of emails on this list as lack of support for
the proposal.



(wearing no hat)


As a small point of procedures, no one is sending an actual signature.

It therefore would provide a modicum of better assurance for 
signatories to send the email that declares their signature directly 
to the ISOC President rather than to the person initiating the recall.



d/



Dave,

As this never been attempted before, by collecting the "signatures" 
myself, checking the NomCom eligibility and diversity in organizations 
as required by RFC3777, I hoped to reduce the work that Lynn had to do.

In the case the petition fails to get enough "signers" ISOC's work is no-op.

I will be happy when/if recall petition is submitted to include all the 
emails that I have got as "proof" that I did not
stuff the box, and publish the names of "signers",  and the integrity of 
the process can be challenged at that time.


Olafur

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[tglassey]

On 11/1/2012 11:08 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:



On 11/1/2012 10:52 AM, Michael StJohns wrote:

Per Olafur's email, I submitted my signature directly to him, along with
my Nomcom eligibility status.  I'm sure other's did as well, so you
shouldn't take the absence of emails on this list as lack of support for
the proposal.



(wearing no hat)


As a small point of procedures, no one is sending an actual signature.

But eSign works if we agree it does.


It therefore would provide a modicum of better assurance for 
signatories to send the email that declares their signature directly 
to the ISOC President rather than to the person initiating the recall.
At which point the framework has a bump - would you send all notices or 
votes for a finding of consensus to the IESG? It is after all the same 
model right?  If so then no one votes on the consensus within the WG 
anymore it would seem and this also would need to be done before the 
IESG in some form as well...


todd



d/




--
Regards TSG
"Ex-Cruce-Leo"

//Confidential Mailing - Please destroy this if you are not the intended 
recipient.

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Dave Crocker]

On 11/1/2012 10:52 AM, Michael StJohns wrote:

Per Olafur's email, I submitted my signature directly to him, along with
my Nomcom eligibility status.  I'm sure other's did as well, so you
shouldn't take the absence of emails on this list as lack of support for
the proposal.



(wearing no hat)


As a small point of procedures, no one is sending an actual signature.

It therefore would provide a modicum of better assurance for signatories 
to send the email that declares their signature directly to the ISOC 
President rather than to the person initiating the recall.



d/

--
 Dave Crocker
 Brandenburg InternetWorking
 bbiw.net

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Michael StJohns]

Per Olafur's email, I submitted my signature directly to him, along with my 
Nomcom eligibility status.  I'm sure other's did as well, so you shouldn't take 
the absence of emails on this list as lack of support for the proposal.

Mike


At 06:25 AM 11/1/2012, Turchanyi Geza wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am glad to see that apparently there are no more supporters of this proposal.
>
>Please be more tolerant to Marshall Eubank.
>
>Best,
>
>Géza
>
>
>On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Warren Kumari 
><war...@kumari.net> wrote:
>
>
>Warren Kumari
>--
>Please excuse typing, etc -- This was sent from a device with a tiny keyboard.
>
>On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Melinda Shore 
><melinda.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/31/12 1:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>>> Fellow IETF'rs
>>> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is
>>> enough support.
>>
>> I regret having to do it this way,
>
>+1
>
>> but since it seems to be necessary
>> and there is no agreed-upon alternative, I support this.
>>
>
>As do I.
>
>:-(
>
>W
>
>> Melinda
>>
>>
>

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Dave Cridland]

I am not NomCom qualified, but I do support the recall. I also suspect
that, given the total disappearance of Marshall Eubanks from all online
activity in early August, he is either ill, deceased, or otherwise unable
to fulfill his obligations. Whichever, the IAOC needs a functional member,
and so recall is our best current option. I just hope the explanation turns
out to involve Marshall being okay.

Dave.
On Nov 1, 2012 10:25 AM, "Turchanyi Geza"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am glad to see that apparently there are no more supporters of this
> proposal.
>
> Please be more tolerant to Marshall Eubank.
>
> Best,
>
> Géza
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Warren Kumari  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Warren Kumari
>> --
>> Please excuse typing, etc -- This was sent from a device with a tiny
>> keyboard.
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Melinda Shore 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 10/31/12 1:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> >> Fellow IETF'rs
>> >> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is
>> >> enough support.
>> >
>> > I regret having to do it this way,
>>
>> +1
>>
>> > but since it seems to be necessary
>> > and there is no agreed-upon alternative, I support this.
>> >
>>
>> As do I.
>>
>> :-(
>>
>> W
>>
>> > Melinda
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Olaf Kolkman]

On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson  wrote:

> Fellow IETF'rs
> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is enough 
> support.
> 
> If you agree with this petition please either comment on this posting, or 
> send me email of support noting if you are NomCom eligible (I'm arbitrarily 
> limiting the submitted signers of the petition to people that have 
> demonstrated recent IETF attendance and participation)
> 
> The reason I'm starting this recall petition is that I think no other way 
> will vacate the positions that Marchall holds before the end of the year, I 
> have purposely held of starting this process in the hope that Marshall on his 
> own resigned but that has not happened even after he has been publicly 
> exposed for over a week.
> 
> I'm disappointed that a person that took on a responsibility that he his not 
> able/willing to fulfill anymore, has not had the courtesy to take a few 
> minutes to draft and send a letter of resignation or an explanation.
> 
> Olafur
> 
>  Recall Petition 
> 
> Lynn St. Amour ISOC president,
> 
>  In accordance with the rules in RFC 3777 Section 7, I request that you start 
> recall proceedings  against Mr. Marshall Eubanks as member of the IAOC as 
> well as IETF Trustee, due to his total disappearance from the IAOC and IETF 
> Trust for over 3 months, and either inability or refusal to resign.
> 
> Evidence to this effect was presented by Bob Hinden [1], as well as further 
> evidence that the IETF Trust ousted Mr. Eubanks as  chair of the IETF 
> Trust[2] , due to his prolonged absence in that body as well .
> 
>  I as an IETF member in good standing (having attended over 50 meetings since 
> 1987, including 9 of the last 10 meetings), regrettably request that you 
> start the recall procedure. Below are listed statements of support for this 
> recall petition from  more than 20 other NomCom eligible IETF participants.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  Olafur Gudmundsson
> 
> [1] 
> https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=934&k2=11277&tid=1351092666
> [2] 
> https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=933&k2=65510&tid=1351272565



I also offer my signature under the recall procedure, in case pragmatism 
doesn't prevail (see my other note).

My offer of signature should in no way be interpreted as reflecting an opinion 
about Marshall's character.


--Olaf




NLnet
Labs
Olaf M. Kolkman

www.NLnetLabs.nl
o...@nlnetlabs.nl

Science Park 400, 1098 XH Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[tglassey]

On 10/31/2012 2:30 PM, Margaret Wasserman wrote:

I am more concerned than disappointed about Marshall's disappearance from the IETF.  
However, I agree that complete absence from an I* position for three months without 
explanation should be grounds for recall.  So, please consider me to be one of the 
"signers" of this petition.

Marshall, if you are out there, please just let us know you are okay!
Wouldnt it make sense to add this as a policy and then use the new 
policy to make this change rather than a special vote with no underlying 
framework or in-place policy to support this type of termination.


Todd


Margaret


On Oct 31, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:


Fellow IETF'rs
below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is enough 
support.

If you agree with this petition please either comment on this posting, or send 
me email of support noting if you are NomCom eligible (I'm arbitrarily limiting 
the submitted signers of the petition to people that have demonstrated recent 
IETF attendance and participation)

The reason I'm starting this recall petition is that I think no other way will 
vacate the positions that Marchall holds before the end of the year, I have 
purposely held of starting this process in the hope that Marshall on his own 
resigned but that has not happened even after he has been publicly exposed for 
over a week.

I'm disappointed that a person that took on a responsibility that he his not 
able/willing to fulfill anymore, has not had the courtesy to take a few minutes 
to draft and send a letter of resignation or an explanation.

Olafur

 Recall Petition 

Lynn St. Amour ISOC president,

  In accordance with the rules in RFC 3777 Section 7, I request that you start 
recall proceedings  against Mr. Marshall Eubanks as member of the IAOC as well 
as IETF Trustee, due to his total disappearance from the IAOC and IETF Trust 
for over 3 months, and either inability or refusal to resign.

Evidence to this effect was presented by Bob Hinden [1], as well as further 
evidence that the IETF Trust ousted Mr. Eubanks as  chair of the IETF Trust[2] 
, due to his prolonged absence in that body as well .

  I as an IETF member in good standing (having attended over 50 meetings since 
1987, including 9 of the last 10 meetings), regrettably request that you start 
the recall procedure. Below are listed statements of support for this recall 
petition from  more than 20 other NomCom eligible IETF participants.


Thanks

  Olafur Gudmundsson

[1] 
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=934&k2=11277&tid=1351092666
[2] 
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=933&k2=65510&tid=1351272565






--
Regards TSG
"Ex-Cruce-Leo"

//Confidential Mailing - Please destroy this if you are not the intended 
recipient.

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Margaret Wasserman]

I am more concerned than disappointed about Marshall's disappearance from the 
IETF.  However, I agree that complete absence from an I* position for three 
months without explanation should be grounds for recall.  So, please consider 
me to be one of the "signers" of this petition.

Marshall, if you are out there, please just let us know you are okay!  

Margaret


On Oct 31, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:

> Fellow IETF'rs
> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is enough 
> support.
> 
> If you agree with this petition please either comment on this posting, or 
> send me email of support noting if you are NomCom eligible (I'm arbitrarily 
> limiting the submitted signers of the petition to people that have 
> demonstrated recent IETF attendance and participation)
> 
> The reason I'm starting this recall petition is that I think no other way 
> will vacate the positions that Marchall holds before the end of the year, I 
> have purposely held of starting this process in the hope that Marshall on his 
> own resigned but that has not happened even after he has been publicly 
> exposed for over a week.
> 
> I'm disappointed that a person that took on a responsibility that he his not 
> able/willing to fulfill anymore, has not had the courtesy to take a few 
> minutes to draft and send a letter of resignation or an explanation.
> 
> Olafur
> 
>  Recall Petition 
> 
> Lynn St. Amour ISOC president,
> 
>  In accordance with the rules in RFC 3777 Section 7, I request that you start 
> recall proceedings  against Mr. Marshall Eubanks as member of the IAOC as 
> well as IETF Trustee, due to his total disappearance from the IAOC and IETF 
> Trust for over 3 months, and either inability or refusal to resign.
> 
> Evidence to this effect was presented by Bob Hinden [1], as well as further 
> evidence that the IETF Trust ousted Mr. Eubanks as  chair of the IETF 
> Trust[2] , due to his prolonged absence in that body as well .
> 
>  I as an IETF member in good standing (having attended over 50 meetings since 
> 1987, including 9 of the last 10 meetings), regrettably request that you 
> start the recall procedure. Below are listed statements of support for this 
> recall petition from  more than 20 other NomCom eligible IETF participants.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  Olafur Gudmundsson
> 
> [1] 
> https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=934&k2=11277&tid=1351092666
> [2] 
> https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=6&rid=49&gid=0&k1=933&k2=65510&tid=1351272565
> 

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Turchanyi Geza]

Hello,

I am glad to see that apparently there are no more supporters of this
proposal.

Please be more tolerant to Marshall Eubank.

Best,

Géza


On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Warren Kumari  wrote:

>
>
> Warren Kumari
> --
> Please excuse typing, etc -- This was sent from a device with a tiny
> keyboard.
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Melinda Shore 
> wrote:
>
> > On 10/31/12 1:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
> >> Fellow IETF'rs
> >> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is
> >> enough support.
> >
> > I regret having to do it this way,
>
> +1
>
> > but since it seems to be necessary
> > and there is no agreed-upon alternative, I support this.
> >
>
> As do I.
>
> :-(
>
> W
>
> > Melinda
> >
> >
>

Re: [IETF] Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Warren Kumari]

Warren Kumari
--
Please excuse typing, etc -- This was sent from a device with a tiny keyboard.

On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Melinda Shore  wrote:

> On 10/31/12 1:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> Fellow IETF'rs
>> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is
>> enough support.
> 
> I regret having to do it this way,

+1

> but since it seems to be necessary
> and there is no agreed-upon alternative, I support this.
> 

As do I.

:-(

W

> Melinda
> 
> 

Re: Recall petition for Mr. Marshall Eubanks

[Melinda Shore]

On 10/31/12 1:21 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
> Fellow IETF'rs
> below is a recall petition that I plan on submitting soon if there is
> enough support.

I regret having to do it this way, but since it seems to be necessary
and there is no agreed-upon alternative, I support this.

Melinda