Re: draft-ietf-hokey-emsk-hierarchy-04.txt
Hi Joel, Many thanks for your review. Some notes inline: I am a bit under the weather, and so if I am incoherent, please feel free to say so. Thanks. On 3/17/2008 1:47 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I have been selected as the General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) > reviewer for this draft (for background on Gen-ART, please see > http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/gen/art/gen-art-FAQ.html ). > > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments > you may receive. > > Document: Specification for the Derivation of Root Keys from an Extended > Master Session Key (EMSK) > Reviewer: Joel M. Halpern > Review Date: 17-March-2008 > IETF LC End Date: 17-March-2008? > IESG Telechat date: N/A > > Summary: This document appears ready for publication. > > Comments: > While there has been much discussion on the IETF list of the > references to "applications" in this document, I have chosen not to > comment on that. It seems to me that the relevant statement is that > specific usages are out of scope for this document. > The one thing that bothers me a little is the intended status of > this document. Given that the EMSK is entirely inside a system, and > that therefore the actual generation process is internal to that system, > I am not sure that a registry tied to the specifics of the generation > mechanism, is appropriate. A lot of this document is of the form "if > you don't define it some other way, do this." While very useful text, > it actually doesn't seem to affect on-the-wire interoperability. So I > wonder if this whole document is more informational than "proposed > standard?" I'm not sure on this, but the containment property did > strike me reading the document. The peer and the server need to arrive at the same derivations. The keynames derived as specified in this document would be used in protocols specified elsewhere to refer to the keys derived independently at both ends. So, whereas there are no "on the wire" packet formats in this document, other documents will put information derived as specified in this document in their packets. > > Minor: >While I would guess that the usage is actually the normal usage, the > definitions of Usage Specific Root Key, Domain Specific Root Key and Key > Management Domain are somewhat confusing for the outside reader. > Specifically, the Key Management Domain is defined as being the scope of > a given root key. This leads the reader to conclude that any root key > is inherently domain specific, because it defines a domain. So how can > one have a special kind of "Domain Specific Root Key" that is > "restricted to use in a specific key management domain." At a guess it > is the difference between a domain defined by the key and a key defined > to fit an existing domain. But I hate guessing when it comes to RFCs. > Given that the document later defines the domain for DSRK in terms of > domain names, "adding "separately defined" or even "defined by a domain > name" to the DSRK definition would address this. > >The last of the requirements (about separation of domain keys and > usage keys and avoiding label collision) requires material later in the > document in order to be understood. A forward reference would be a good > idea, indicating where the domain name and usage key label are described. > > > It looks like some clarification is in order in the text. regards, Lakshminath ___ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: draft-ietf-hokey-emsk-hierarchy-04.txt
Thank you. Comment following your clarification. Joel Lakshminath Dondeti wrote: ... >> The one thing that bothers me a little is the intended status of >> this document. Given that the EMSK is entirely inside a system, and >> that therefore the actual generation process is internal to that >> system, I am not sure that a registry tied to the specifics of the >> generation mechanism, is appropriate. A lot of this document is of >> the form "if you don't define it some other way, do this." While very >> useful text, it actually doesn't seem to affect on-the-wire >> interoperability. So I wonder if this whole document is more >> informational than "proposed standard?" I'm not sure on this, but the >> containment property did strike me reading the document. > > The peer and the server need to arrive at the same derivations. The > keynames derived as specified in this document would be used in > protocols specified elsewhere to refer to the keys derived independently > at both ends. So, whereas there are no "on the wire" packet formats in > this document, other documents will put information derived as specified > in this document in their packets. That does make for a good reason for PS. I am however then confused by the description that the EMSK never leaves the server. I presume that this relates to other aspects of EAP that I am not familiar with. You may want to see if there is a way to phrase it that makes it a bit clearer. But given what you say, this is another minor issue, not a big deal. ___ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
Re: draft-ietf-hokey-emsk-hierarchy-04.txt
Thanks Joel. Followup notes inline: On 3/17/2008 6:47 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Thank you. Comment following your clarification. > Joel > > > Lakshminath Dondeti wrote: > ... >>> The one thing that bothers me a little is the intended status of >>> this document. Given that the EMSK is entirely inside a system, and >>> that therefore the actual generation process is internal to that >>> system, I am not sure that a registry tied to the specifics of the >>> generation mechanism, is appropriate. A lot of this document is of >>> the form "if you don't define it some other way, do this." While >>> very useful text, it actually doesn't seem to affect on-the-wire >>> interoperability. So I wonder if this whole document is more >>> informational than "proposed standard?" I'm not sure on this, but >>> the containment property did strike me reading the document. >> >> The peer and the server need to arrive at the same derivations. The >> keynames derived as specified in this document would be used in >> protocols specified elsewhere to refer to the keys derived >> independently at both ends. So, whereas there are no "on the wire" >> packet formats in this document, other documents will put information >> derived as specified in this document in their packets. > > That does make for a good reason for PS. I am however then confused by > the description that the EMSK never leaves the server. I presume that > this relates to other aspects of EAP that I am not familiar with. You > may want to see if there is a way to phrase it that makes it a bit > clearer. But given what you say, this is another minor issue, not a big > deal. > The note about EMSK never leaving the server is contextual; the other master session key, the MSK is sent to the authenticator (and thus "leaves" the server). We'll make a note of this as well for clarification. So, on balance, we have two clarifications make: one on domains (that came up elsewhere too, so we'll work on the text once again -- we did that during WG discussions) and another on EMSK being held at the server. regards, Lakshminath ___ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf