Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
Hi, On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Niam Computech wrote: > @Bala - To jobin whom else. Check thread line and then comment. Why is > everyone ready to fight on this mailing list?!! > I didn't know whether you were replying to Shirini, or Jobin, or Kenneth(as a mark of sarcasm). No one is interested in fighting. I just asked you to follow the guidelines and you feel so agitated and ask me to check the thread line. And, you still top post and violate list guidelines. Please understand that the guidelines must be followed so that other members of the list are not put to inconvenience by your post. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignb...@gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Tue, 2012-07-03 at 17:14 +0530, Niam Computech wrote: > @Bala - To jobin whom else. Check thread line and then comment. Why > is > everyone ready to fight on this mailing list?!! avoid top posting -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
@Bala - To jobin whom else. Check thread line and then comment. Why is everyone ready to fight on this mailing list?!! On 07/03/2012 02:36 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote: > Hi Niam Computech, > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Niam Computech > wrote: >> Thanks a ton for taking this initiative. Appreciated. >> > > To whom is that reply intended ? Seriously, please STOP top > posting and follow the list guidelines. Thanks > ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
Hi Niam Computech, On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Niam Computech wrote: > Thanks a ton for taking this initiative. Appreciated. > To whom is that reply intended ? Seriously, please STOP top posting and follow the list guidelines. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignb...@gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
Thanks a ton for taking this initiative. Appreciated. On 07/03/2012 01:19 PM, jobinsmai...@gmail.com wrote: > I concur with our moderator -:) we should call it a halt for now. We are all > in some way or another do promote Linux and its benefits and I am sure we all > do understand the point. > > Please excuse me if I did not include the trailing thread. > > -Jobin > --Original Message-- > From: kenneth gonsalves > Sender: ilugc-boun...@ae.iitm.ac.in > To: ilugc@ae.iitm.ac.in > ReplyTo: ILUG-C > Subject: Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux > Sent: Jul 3, 2012 12:51 PM > > On Tue, 2012-07-03 at 12:42 +0530, Shrinivasan T wrote: >> I hope there wont be any end for this thread, if we keep on replying >> for the comments. >> >> Shall we stop here and discuss on other threads? > > why? > ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
I concur with our moderator -:) we should call it a halt for now. We are all in some way or another do promote Linux and its benefits and I am sure we all do understand the point. Please excuse me if I did not include the trailing thread. -Jobin --Original Message-- From: kenneth gonsalves Sender: ilugc-boun...@ae.iitm.ac.in To: ilugc@ae.iitm.ac.in ReplyTo: ILUG-C Subject: Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux Sent: Jul 3, 2012 12:51 PM On Tue, 2012-07-03 at 12:42 +0530, Shrinivasan T wrote: > I hope there wont be any end for this thread, if we keep on replying > for the comments. > > Shall we stop here and discuss on other threads? why? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Tue, 2012-07-03 at 12:42 +0530, Shrinivasan T wrote: > I hope there wont be any end for this thread, if we keep on replying > for the comments. > > Shall we stop here and discuss on other threads? why? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
I hope there wont be any end for this thread, if we keep on replying for the comments. Shall we stop here and discuss on other threads? Thanks. -- Regards, T.Shrinivasan My Life with GNU/Linux : http://goinggnu.wordpress.com Free/Open Source Jobs : http://fossjobs.in Get CollabNet Subversion Edge : http://www.collab.net/svnedge ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 19:31 +0530, Niam Computech wrote: > I always ask myself why people waste time discussing / fighting over > useless talks rather than spending this time on something productive. well now that you have started doing it, you probably know the answer ;-) > > Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, Fedora, Mint, Gentoo are all based on Linux. > Linux is their heart, lungs, legs, arms etc but they all have > different > shapes, sizes etc like human beings do. so why do you not advertise your company as shipping with Linux or GNU/Linux or free operating system or open source operating system (take your pick)? [...] > > If we all have to contribute to FOSS or GNU/Linux then just pick what > you like and start contributing towards it. why do you assume that we are not doing so? You may not be aware of the fact that one thing that distinguishes humans from animals is the ability to talk (and generally communicate using the spoken and written word.) It is only donkeys, buffaloes and other beasts of burden that go around doing productive work without talking. For us, work done without talking about it is not productive or profitable. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 23:16 +0530, Arun Prakash wrote: > > Example- How many people like beer? Beer is beer right? Thunderbolt > is > > beer, haywards is beer, tuborg is beer, kingfisher is beer. Now all > > these are beer brands, do they have to write on labels everywhere > that > > they are beer. When someone goes to wineshop and asks for haywards, > the > > guy on counter knows he is asking for beer. > > > > Its not the matter of beer, it is like Dalda and Xerox . > Most people donot know that it is Vanaspathi and Photocopy. good analogy -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 18:35 +0530, 0 wrote: > > whatever this means > > > > What that means is, the word "Linux" is not important. Promote the > features, softwares, and the freedom that GNU/Linux offers. this is precisely what I am saying. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
Hello, > Example- How many people like beer? Beer is beer right? Thunderbolt is > beer, haywards is beer, tuborg is beer, kingfisher is beer. Now all > these are beer brands, do they have to write on labels everywhere that > they are beer. When someone goes to wineshop and asks for haywards, the > guy on counter knows he is asking for beer. > Its not the matter of beer, it is like Dalda and Xerox . Most people donot know that it is Vanaspathi and Photocopy. Regards, Arun Prakash ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
I always ask myself why people waste time discussing / fighting over useless talks rather than spending this time on something productive. Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, Fedora, Mint, Gentoo are all based on Linux. Linux is their heart, lungs, legs, arms etc but they all have different shapes, sizes etc like human beings do. Example- How many people like beer? Beer is beer right? Thunderbolt is beer, haywards is beer, tuborg is beer, kingfisher is beer. Now all these are beer brands, do they have to write on labels everywhere that they are beer. When someone goes to wineshop and asks for haywards, the guy on counter knows he is asking for beer. Linux and all other derivatives are same. Gnome, KDE, Gimp etc are all part GNU/Linux. If we all have to contribute to FOSS or GNU/Linux then just pick what you like and start contributing towards it. ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
> The context in this post is the huge financial and propaganda effort > being put in by Microsoft to prevent the spread of linux (or call it > open source or foss) - it is not the ongoing quarrel between various > people on the assignment of credit for creating parts of the open source > software ecosystem. If you want to have a thread on that subject feel > free to start your own. I apologize for trying to take the thread in a different direction, It was not intentional. When I read your interesting opinion on Ubuntu/Android and how Microsoft might have had a hand in them not using the term "Linux", the first thing that popped into my head was "Its a good thing" (debatable, of course). And, I misread the subject of the email as "why it is important to promote linux (brand)". Microsoft's efforts to prevent the spread of Linux has died down a bit in the last few years. Even Microsoft Azure cloud service now offers GNU/Linux as a choice of virtual machine, http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-software/microsoft-run-linux-azure-195068 I am sure many of us have tried to promote GNU/Linux through word of mouth but that works only to a certain extent. >> >> I would say promote Linux as a product but not as a brand. > > whatever this means > What that means is, the word "Linux" is not important. Promote the features, softwares, and the freedom that GNU/Linux offers. -- 0 ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 17:32 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote: > > congratulations - I am sure you went through each of these links to > find > > out where they were on the site, in what context they were there, > > whether they were put there by the authors of the site and how > visible > > they are to the viewers of the site. > > > > Those were just some random stats I found after reading your original > FUD. But then, I'm sure that when you were saying "site" and not > "page", you went through all the sites to do your due diligence? yes I did - spent some hours looking at the sites in question from the end user perspective to get an overall impression on how much importance is given to linux. > > > And here's one more which you can add to your collection of useless > > statistics: > > > > site:microsoft.com linux322,000 > > > > Why is that useless? this one is better site:microsoft.com how to remove linux 28,800 results > According to the Linux Foundation [1], Microsoft > was one of the largest corporate contributors of Linux in 2011. > > [1] > http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/04/linux-kernel-in-2011-15-million-total-lines-of-code-and-microsoft-is-a-top-contributor/ > > I am sure you read all the comments on this article. And of course the original pdf from the linux foundation. It is amusing to note that Linus Torvalds (1,113 total changes, 231 since 2.6.35) does not appear in either top-30 list of contributors. wow - $bill contributes more to the kernel than Linus! In general, it is a fallacy to equate number of lines of code contributed to contribution as such. A lot of other factors need to be considered - these factors are adequately explained in the pdf and in the comments on the article itself. 1% of the total contributed code - where the contribution is completely self serving ... -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
Hi, On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Roshan Mathews wrote: > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:57 PM, kenneth gonsalves > wrote: > > Those were just some random stats I found after reading your original > FUD. But then, I'm sure that when you were saying "site" and not I don't think it is a FUD. Until recently, they never mentioned the term "Linux" anywhere prominently. It was only recently that they added it up somewhere, I guess it was their about page when people started asking pointed questions about it. And I don't the the actual number of occurrences of the term is of any use. As long as it is not prominent(by prominent, I mean frequently visited pages, and the ability to view it without having to do lots of scrolling), it is as good as not being mentioned at all. Even then, I don't know how the count across the whole site matters. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignb...@gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:57 PM, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > congratulations - I am sure you went through each of these links to find > out where they were on the site, in what context they were there, > whether they were put there by the authors of the site and how visible > they are to the viewers of the site. > Those were just some random stats I found after reading your original FUD. But then, I'm sure that when you were saying "site" and not "page", you went through all the sites to do your due diligence? > And here's one more which you can add to your collection of useless > statistics: > > site:microsoft.com linux322,000 > Why is that useless? According to the Linux Foundation [1], Microsoft was one of the largest corporate contributors of Linux in 2011. [1] http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/04/linux-kernel-in-2011-15-million-total-lines-of-code-and-microsoft-is-a-top-contributor/ -- http://about.me/rosh ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 16:35 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote: > Number of Google search results for "linux" on site: > > |--+---| > | Search phrase| Count | > |--+---| > | linux site:debian.org| 2,430,000 | > | linux site:fedoraproject.org | 193,000 | > | linux site:mandriva.com | 186,000 | > | linux site:redhat.com| 1,440,000 | > | linux site:suse.com | 159,000 | > | linux site:ubuntu.com| 1,460,000 | > |--+---| congratulations - I am sure you went through each of these links to find out where they were on the site, in what context they were there, whether they were put there by the authors of the site and how visible they are to the viewers of the site. And here's one more which you can add to your collection of useless statistics: site:microsoft.com linux322,000 -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:46 +0530, 0 wrote: > > So let us promote - and encourage others to promote - Linux (or, if > you > > so desire GNU/Linux. > > In my opinion, fragmenting the Linux brand as Ubuntu or Android or > other > brands is a good thing. For long, one person has embezzled the credit > for the work of the entire community. Linus Torvalds shared the Linux kernel on some internet groups for MINIX users. Linus first called the operating system "Freax". The name Freax came from joining up the English words "free" and "freak", and adding an X to the name because Unix has an X in its name. Ari Lemmke, who worked with Linus at the University, was responsible for the servers that Freax was stored on. Ari did not think Freax was a good name, so he called the project "Linux" without asking Linus. Later, Linus agreed that Linux was a better name for his project. Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft), of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes. The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning. The context in this post is the huge financial and propaganda effort being put in by Microsoft to prevent the spread of linux (or call it open source or foss) - it is not the ongoing quarrel between various people on the assignment of credit for creating parts of the open source software ecosystem. If you want to have a thread on that subject feel free to start your own. [...] > Even though, I support RMS on GNU/Linux name, to fully represent the > end > product, the name should be totally random or a representation of the > community as a whole. unfortunately the train left the station 20 years back. > > I would say promote Linux as a product but not as a brand. whatever this means -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:56 PM, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:55 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote: >> wrote: >> > [...] If one looks at the sites of >> > redhat, fedora, suse, debian, mandriva, one finds plentiful mention >> of >> > the word linux. But the word is missing in the sites of two >> 'popular' >> > distros - android and ubuntu. >> > >> >> FWIW, number of times the word linux is visible on page (not in the >> source of the page): >> > > I said 'site' not 'page'. > Number of Google search results for "linux" on site: |--+---| | Search phrase| Count | |--+---| | linux site:debian.org| 2,430,000 | | linux site:fedoraproject.org | 193,000 | | linux site:mandriva.com | 186,000 | | linux site:redhat.com| 1,440,000 | | linux site:suse.com | 159,000 | | linux site:ubuntu.com| 1,460,000 | |--+---| Also relevant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt -- http://about.me/rosh ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:55 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote: > wrote: > > [...] If one looks at the sites of > > redhat, fedora, suse, debian, mandriva, one finds plentiful mention > of > > the word linux. But the word is missing in the sites of two > 'popular' > > distros - android and ubuntu. > > > > FWIW, number of times the word linux is visible on page (not in the > source of the page): > > |--+-+---| > | Distro | URL | Count | > |--+-+---| > | Debian | http://www.debian.org/ | 0 | > | Fedora | http://fedoraproject.org/ |2* | > | Mandriva | http://www.mandriva.com/en/ |12 | > | Redhat | http://www.redhat.com/ | 0 | > | Suse | http://www.suse.com/|13 | > | Ubuntu | http://www.ubuntu.com/ | 0 | > |--+-+---| > > *2 for Fedora, not counting a customer quote which mentions it > three times. > > I said 'site' not 'page'. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:36 PM, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > [...] If one looks at the sites of > redhat, fedora, suse, debian, mandriva, one finds plentiful mention of > the word linux. But the word is missing in the sites of two 'popular' > distros - android and ubuntu. > FWIW, number of times the word linux is visible on page (not in the source of the page): |--+-+---| | Distro | URL | Count | |--+-+---| | Debian | http://www.debian.org/ | 0 | | Fedora | http://fedoraproject.org/ |2* | | Mandriva | http://www.mandriva.com/en/ |12 | | Redhat | http://www.redhat.com/ | 0 | | Suse | http://www.suse.com/|13 | | Ubuntu | http://www.ubuntu.com/ | 0 | |--+-+---| *2 for Fedora, not counting a customer quote which mentions it three times. -- http://about.me/rosh ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
> Similarly hardware companies that ship machines with linux are persuaded > to use terms like 'we ship with ubuntu' or 'we ship with android' rather > than say 'we ship with linux'. > > I will not go into how the distros that disown Linux also fail to > contribute back to the community ... this is too well known. > > So let us promote - and encourage others to promote - Linux (or, if you > so desire GNU/Linux. In my opinion, fragmenting the Linux brand as Ubuntu or Android or other brands is a good thing. For long, one person has embezzled the credit for the work of the entire community. GNU has contributed the most to the base system. But it should be mentioned that, the most commonly used softwares such as email clients, web browsers, web servers, multimedia editing/viewing, gaming, GUI shell (kde) and so on are contributed by a vast and diverse section of the community. Even though, I support RMS on GNU/Linux name, to fully represent the end product, the name should be totally random or a representation of the community as a whole. I would say promote Linux as a product but not as a brand. -- 0 ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
On 2 July 2012 13:36, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > But the word is missing in the sites of two 'popular' > distros - android and ubuntu. If you ask most Linux users what OS they > use, they will say 'Linux' (or GNU/Linux). But if you ask people using > distros like Ubuntu or android, they will say 'Ubuntu' or 'android'. Ubuntu did use the term "linux" once for its famous slogan " Linux for Human beings" when it was introducing its distribution based at PCs . But once they reached a fair share of market and when the CD distribution was at a peak stage they shifted and dropped the name linux all together . Coming to Android , they are a modified linux kernel ( so are also others) with binary blobs which somehow doesn't bring it close to FOSS eco system and hence many didn't mind the missing term . I guess its upto google to give attribution where its due and stop being "evil" which was and I guess is still its motto . Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
[Ilugc] why it is important to promote linux
hi, caveat - this is a long Girish-style post full of my personal opinions, so if you continue reading it, do not blame me - you have been warned ;-) First, some background: some years back I attended a foss promotion meeting attended by big shots from IBM, Sun, HP etc. The HP guy was most vehement in supporting open source and attacking Microsoft. I asked why all his ads say 'Compaq recommends Microsoft Windows'. He said that Microsoft pays a big subsidy to any company that puts in that sentence in their ads, so the marketing people put it in. Also Microsoft will not pay if some models come with Linux and the word 'linux' is prominent. If the word is there, it should be in the smallest possible type. At times Acer (and some other companies) release models - usually flagship models - that ship with linux. The rule laid down by Microsoft is that this should be mentioned in small type and the recommendation of Windows in a very prominent position. In short, Microsoft does it's best to see that the term Linux does not get prominence anywhere. So what else is new - we all know this. What we all do not realise is that a lot of companies that produce linux distros - and a lot of people who use the said distros are also helping Microsoft to play down the term Linux. If one looks at the sites of redhat, fedora, suse, debian, mandriva, one finds plentiful mention of the word linux. But the word is missing in the sites of two 'popular' distros - android and ubuntu. If you ask most Linux users what OS they use, they will say 'Linux' (or GNU/Linux). But if you ask people using distros like Ubuntu or android, they will say 'Ubuntu' or 'android'. Similarly hardware companies that ship machines with linux are persuaded to use terms like 'we ship with ubuntu' or 'we ship with android' rather than say 'we ship with linux'. I will not go into how the distros that disown Linux also fail to contribute back to the community ... this is too well known. So let us promote - and encourage others to promote - Linux (or, if you so desire GNU/Linux. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
