Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
[snip] achha bas! each to their own. getting involved with the creativecommons, authoring public domain work, adopting the values you believe in for your better world, and doing whatever you can your way, will give each one of us who feels for this, our individual satisfactions. for, i strongly feel: there is really no right way to live. your right could be someone else's wrong, and vice-versa, or the collective right of today's world could be the collective wrong of tomorrow's. people just die trying all their life to live right. so atleast for myself, whatever i feel is right, whether copyrighting or copylefting, is worth doing, as a personal expression of the inner. bakee sabh theek, kee pharak pendaa! :-) n ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
On 10/14/05, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 14 Oct 2005 12:39 am, Linux Lingam wrote: er.. that's a wrong statement. even western civilization did not initially have a proprietary culture. ever heard of guilds? all specialised knowledge has all along been closed source proprietory knowledge of closed groups - penalty for transgression was usually death or worse. Is it not utopian to expect that people in the past were all pure hearted and shared everything (no evil thoughts...hehehe...)? Knowledge is power and social relationships are defined by power. Guilds, Rajahs, Mathematecian (read history of pythagorus), all indulged in power and control. Rebels through the history rose against this (establishment) and forged new paths and thoughts. But these breakaways also fell into the same trap sooner or later. Power corrupted even the idealist society of Karl Marx dreams! Having said that (and becoming self proclaimed rebel) there are large tracts of knowledge that are now open and shared, more we can expand this domian better the world shall be. Ideals need to be cherished. Long live FLOSS!! -- Sudev Barar Learning Linux ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
On Friday, 14 Oct 2005 10:29 am, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Friday 14 Oct 2005 12:39 am, Linux Lingam wrote: er.. that's a wrong statement. even western civilization did not initially have a proprietary culture. ever heard of guilds? all specialised knowledge has all along been closed source proprietory knowledge of closed groups - penalty for transgression was usually death or worse. That was more like trade secret than copyright, though. And trade secrets still govern a significant part of the proprietary world today. - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya *Puroga Technologies * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: http://www.puroga.com * Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog PGP/GPG Signature: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
On Friday 14 Oct 2005 10:59 pm, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: ever heard of guilds? all specialised knowledge has all along been closed source proprietory knowledge of closed groups - penalty for transgression was usually death or worse. That was more like trade secret than copyright, though. And trade secrets still govern a significant part of the proprietary world today. and copyright came in when publishing (ie means of copying and distributing trade secrets) became wide spread -- regards kg http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon tally ho! http://avsap.org.in ಇಂಡ್ಲಿನಕ್ಸ வாழ்க! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
[huge snip] The story with culture is somewhat different. We didn't begin with a world without proprietary culture. Instead, there has always been proprietary culture — meaning work protected by an exclusive right. [huge snip] there has always been proprietary culture is TOTAL BULLSHIT. not even in the west was this true in history. copyright is a recent phenomenon just a few centuries old. didn't expect lawrence lessig to make such a goof! nevertheless, stuff like CC, FSF, brings a small ray of hope that the problems of copyright, ownership, patents, may be removed. maybe not. who knows? :-| niyam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Niyam == Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Niyam [huge snip] The story with culture is somewhat different. We didn't begin with a world without proprietary culture. Instead, there has always been proprietary culture �meaning work protected by an exclusive right. [huge snip] Niyam there has always been proprietary culture is TOTAL Niyam BULLSHIT. not even in the west was this true in history. Niyam copyright is a recent phenomenon just a few centuries old. Niyam didn't expect lawrence lessig to make such a goof! Actually the culture was proprietary, not because of copyright but because of difficulty of reproduction. Books could not be copied (or only copied laboriously), music could not be taped and software didn't exist. The only thing that was ``non-proprietary'' earlier was the oral culture and better methods of growing wheat :) Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/ iD8DBQFDToAEyWjQ78xo0X8RAiLzAKCQI3oy4+8N5CQ3w8Hi3WtspTKjdQCeJvW7 fUxRsBbUrNFsYLyzAJvM+Ls= =I6cV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
[snip] Actually the culture was proprietary, not because of copyright but because of difficulty of reproduction. Books could not be copied (or only copied laboriously), music could not be taped and software didn't exist. The only thing that was ``non-proprietary'' earlier was the oral culture and better methods of growing wheat :) Regards, - -- Raju er.. that's a wrong statement. even western civilization did not initially have a proprietary culture. for instance, the phoenicians gave the greeks the alphabet freely, even if for commerce. the romans took it further. the greek, roman, and the post-roman empires such as the ottomon empire thrived on cultural cross-pollination. the ottomon empire, founded circa at the fall of constantinople, survived till the early part of the 20th century. the great italian renaissance was greatly influenced by the influx of fleeing greek and other scholars from constantinople, blending middle-eastern knowledge, science, maths, arts and mysticism with western traditions. newton did not have 'proprietory' rights over his laws and equations. he published them to share them. even earlier, leonardo di vinci did not have proprietory rights over his inventions and genius. the gregorian chants also had a similar orientation. move from western civilization to the far-east. in india you find a strong culture of sharing, down from buddhism being shared across the far-east by travelling monks and saints, to the precious knowledge of ayurveda shared with the rising civilization of tibet, and allowed to fork into tibetan buddhism. vandana shiva would have a whole earful on how agricultural communities and tribes through the centuries till modern-day have been non-proprietory. i made a surprising discovery recently. while reading an insightful book on mysticism and philosophy, i stumbled across a paragraph that mentioned that the concept of 'ownership' itself, is a recent phenomenon in human society and culture. the concept of ownership arose with the rising concept of 'fatherhood'. shocking as it may seem, tribal civilizations do not have a socially-defined concept of fatherhood. only motherhood. plato and socrates also mention this. even today you can find whole tribes in africa, and even in india, where communities only have the concept of motherhood, and even the biological father is often unknown. such tribal communities suffer less from modern-day neurotic problems, and the concept of 'property' is different from ours, where everything is shared by the community as a tribe. sure, we can laugh at them. and they can laugh at us. maybe they are going to have the last laugh. imo, the current western civilization is at the other extreme. it would take decades and possibly a whole century before the wheel turns again. by that time we'd all be dead. so while alive, in the meantime, i'm using gnulinux, supporting creativecommons, and composing unplugged music on my guitar. n ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
On Friday 14 Oct 2005 12:39 am, Linux Lingam wrote: er.. that's a wrong statement. even western civilization did not initially have a proprietary culture. ever heard of guilds? all specialised knowledge has all along been closed source proprietory knowledge of closed groups - penalty for transgression was usually death or worse. -- regards kg http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon tally ho! http://avsap.org.in ಇಂಡ್ಲಿನಕ್ಸ வாழ்க! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
-- Forwarded Message -- Subject: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began Date: Thursday, 13 Oct 2005 2:00 am From: Lawrence Lessig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [This email is part of a weekly series written by Lawrence Lessig and others about the history and future of Creative Commons. If you would like to be removed from this list, please click here: http://creativecommons.org/about/lessigletter#unsubscribe Alternatively, if you know others who might find these interesting, please recommend they sign up at http://creativecommons.org/about/lessigletter ] From our last episode: Creative Commons was launched in December, 2002. Within a year, we counted over 1,000,000 link-backs to our licenses. At a year and a half, that number was over 1,800,000. At two, the number was just about 5,000,000. At two and a half years (last June), the number was just over 12,000,000. And today -- three months later -- Yahoo! reports over 50,000,000 link-backs to our licenses. CC: Aims and Lessons So what problem was Creative Commons trying to solve? And from what in the past did we learn? Creative Commons took its idea — give away free copyright licenses — from the Free Software Movement. But the problem we aimed to solve was somewhat different. When Richard Stallman launched the Free Software Foundation just over 20 years ago, he was responding to something new in the world of software development. In his experience, software had been free, in the sense that the source code was freely accessible and could be freely modified. But by the early 1980s, this norm was changing. Increasingly, software was proprietary, meaning the source code was hidden, and users were not free to understand or modify that source code. Stallman thus launched his movement to build a buttress against this trend, by developing a free operating system within which the freedoms he had known could continue. The story with culture is somewhat different. We didn't begin with a world without proprietary culture. Instead, there has always been proprietary culture — meaning work protected by an exclusive right. And in my view at least, that's not a bad thing either. Artists need to eat. Authors, too. A system to secure rewards to the creative community is essential to inspiring at least some creative work. But for most of our history, the burdens imposed by copyright on other creators, and upon the culture generally, were slight. And there was a great deal of creative work that could happen free of the regulation of the law. Copyright was important to cultural development, but marginal. It regulated certain activities significantly, but left most of us free of copyright's control. All that began to change with the birth of digital technologies, and for a reason that no one ever fully thought through. If copyright regulates copies, then while a tiny portion of the uses of culture off the net involves making copies, every use of culture on the net begins by making a copy. In the physical world, if you read a book, that's an act unregulated by the law of copyright, because in the physical world, reading a book doesn't make a copy. On the Internet, the same act triggers the law of copyright, because to read a book in a digital world is always to make a copy. Thus, as the world moves online, many of the freedoms (in the sense of life left unregulated by the law of copyright) disappear. Every use of copyrighted content at least presumptively triggers a requirement of permission. The failure to secure permission places a cloud of uncertainty over the legality of the use. (The critical exception in the American tradition is fair use, which I'll talk about next week.) Now many don't care about clouds of uncertainty. Many just do what they want, and ignore the consequences (and not just on the Net). But there are some, and especially some important institutions like schools, universities, governments, and corporations that rightly hesitate in the face of that uncertainty. Some, like an increasing number of universities, would require express permission to use material found on the Internet in classrooms. Some, like an increasing number of corporations, would expressly ban employees from using material they find on the web in presentations. Thus just at the moment that Internet technologies explode the opportunities for collaborative creativity and the sharing of knowledge, uncertainty over permissions interferes with that collaboration. We at Creative Commons thought this was a kind of legal insanity — an insanity, that is, created by the law. Not because we believe people ought to be forced to share. But because we believe that many who make their work available on the Internet are happy to share. Or happy to share for some purposes, if not for others. Or eager that their work be spread broadly, regardless of the underlying rules of copyright. And these people, we thought, could use a simple way
Re: [ilugd] [OT] Fwd: [cc-lessigletter] CC in Review: Lawrence Lessig on How it All Began
On Thursday 13 Oct 2005 3:11 am, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: [This email is part of a weekly series written by Lawrence Lessig and others about the history and future of Creative Commons. If you would like to be removed from this list, please click here: are you going to forward this every week? -- regards kg http://www.livejournal.com/users/lawgon tally ho! http://avsap.org.in ಇಂಡ್ಲಿನಕ್ಸ வாழ்க! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
