Re: [ilugd] My query
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:58 PM, N S nsn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi PJ, ilugd list, @PJ: Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective in detail. I'm giving a concrete example, based on personal experience of some rather in the air points I put forward in my previous mail. On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:24 PM, PJ pee...@hotpop.com wrote: nsn...@... writes: Hi People, Time for the Naligator to surf right in. [snip illuminating perspective by N] The crux of my question remains: RHCE guys should be good at their stuff, seeing how probing the exams are. But for some reason, none of the RHCE guys I interviewed about half a year ago were people I would entrust to run the company servers. I was even told the possibly apocryphal tale of Mary, who when he was searching, would filter out the RHCE candidates and chuck them in the bin. It was a relief when I managed to unearth someone with the qualities of constant learning that you describe, along with the required abilities and mindset. So what was it that I was uncovering in interviews that were putting me off and weren't coming out in the RHCE scores? Damned if I can remember the details now and articulate it. I think it was linked with the constant learning aspect and surprising blanks in knowledge and ability. Something missing in the mindset too, I think. Stuff that Nalin touched upon. Here is a personal experience I had earlier in my career-- that illustrates some of whats wrong with sysadmins and IT-departments in a lot of indian company. (1) what a company's IT goals are; (2) what the approach and background of your manager/superior/organization's management are (3) what are your own career plans and willingness to be flexible; goal oriented and team oriented. I cant generalize much on (1) and (2) above in a public forum-- but on (3) my views are as below:-- (a) Do you want a stable average paying position even if you want tech compromises ? I once worked for a Bangalore office of a very large Indian networking company that had set up their bangalore presence just 1-2 years before I joined fresh out of college. At the time, the IT guys-- the sysadmins-- were administering a network of WIndowsNT 4.0 machines; with a HP-UX server and also some Linux presence included. The sysadmins were contract workers the company outsourced (I think either from Compaq OR from HP-- at the time, Compaq hadnt yet been acquired by HP). Soon a IT manager came-- who was a company employee-- answering only to the Bangalore Center's General Manager-- who was the goto guy for the GM and all the project managers. This IT manager had some power issues--- he liked to pretend he was managing the IT operations of a bank or of some government office with data-entry operators and confidential info. This was a tech company-- and mind you-- the people being denied access to their own computers were programmers-- who had been selected from amongst the best in their respective colleges. He would force programmers to justify every small requirement they had; he would refuse to give local system windows NT passwords-- and he would try to make programmers feel that if he wanted he could selectively force a few to justify their bandwidth usage and even usage of printers--- and he would do that only with the college-fresher programmers-- while being docile and nice to senior people--- he would also selectively deny a few project managers who were new or naive access to softwares their teams needed and satisfy his ego by forcing project managers to run circles around him or one of his guys. As you yourself can imagine--- openness and tech competence became a no-no--- and since he held the keys to each of the sysadmin's salary and salary hikes-- and even continuation at our site--- the sysadmins who could propogate his power game--- of keeping people worried and harried got ahead-- and those were the ones who apart from getting promoted got umpteen attempts at the competence exams. Perhaps, the sysadmins who were acting oversmart-- denying people access--- actually believed they were doing a good job--- perhaps they actually felt that the guys standing up to the MIS deptt actually were the villains. Also, you yourself can understand-- that any sysadmin who knew more but was not trusted by the boss-- would be milked for knowledge-- but not given credit or positive appraisals for his technical knowledge or skills. Also, anyone in this IT deptt who took initiative or was cooperative-- would be shown as deviating from the company's IT policies and overlooking process compliance norms. You yourself can imagine the kind of hell-hole that was--- and you yourself can imagine that if programmers-- were stressed and harassed--- what the situation of the guys who were actually the sys-admins would have been. - Coming from such a environment--- which I am sure--
Re: [ilugd] My query
Hi, Sir, I belongs to Meerut. I have attended RHEL 5 training from NETZONE INFOTECH PVT LTD LAZPAT NAGAR NEW DELHI, Now I want to attend the RHCE EXAM. I REQUEST TO THE ALL MEMBERS OF THE GROUP PLZ... GIVE ME SOME GUIDE LINES AND TELL ME FROM WHERE I SHOULD REGISTER FOR THE RHCE EXAM SO THAT I CAN CLEAR THE EXAM. I SHALL BE ALWAYS HIGLY OBLIGED AND THANKFUL TO THE EACH MEMBER OF THE GROUP. With Warm Regards, -- amit this is always good if you ask you queries in a new thread,for any information regarding RHCE Exams Red Hat Trainings you can visit http://www.in.redhat.com/training i hope this will be helpful for you. Thanks Vijay ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Vijay Kakkar vijaykakk...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Sir, I belongs to Meerut. I have attended RHEL 5 training from NETZONE INFOTECH PVT LTD LAZPAT NAGAR NEW DELHI, Now I want to attend the RHCE EXAM. I REQUEST TO THE ALL MEMBERS OF THE GROUP PLZ... GIVE ME SOME GUIDE LINES AND TELL ME FROM WHERE I SHOULD REGISTER FOR THE RHCE EXAM SO THAT I CAN CLEAR THE EXAM. I SHALL BE ALWAYS HIGLY OBLIGED AND THANKFUL TO THE EACH MEMBER OF THE GROUP. With Warm Regards, -- amit this is always good if you ask you queries in a new thread,for any information regarding RHCE Exams Red Hat Trainings you can visit http://www.in.redhat.com/training i hope this will be helpful for you. Good suggestion vijay. @Amit: Additionally, you can also try out some of the self-tests at redhat.com -- they are very good. After trying those, you'll get a report about what areas of Linux/Unix you are good at-- and where you are lacking-- and after that, even just reading the man pages will help you a lot. I hope this helps. Best Regards, NS ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
Hi PJ, ilugd list, @PJ: Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective in detail. I'm giving a concrete example, based on personal experience of some rather in the air points I put forward in my previous mail. On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 7:24 PM, PJ pee...@hotpop.com wrote: nsn...@... writes: Hi People, Time for the Naligator to surf right in. [snip illuminating perspective by N] The crux of my question remains: RHCE guys should be good at their stuff, seeing how probing the exams are. But for some reason, none of the RHCE guys I interviewed about half a year ago were people I would entrust to run the company servers. I was even told the possibly apocryphal tale of Mary, who when he was searching, would filter out the RHCE candidates and chuck them in the bin. It was a relief when I managed to unearth someone with the qualities of constant learning that you describe, along with the required abilities and mindset. So what was it that I was uncovering in interviews that were putting me off and weren't coming out in the RHCE scores? Damned if I can remember the details now and articulate it. I think it was linked with the constant learning aspect and surprising blanks in knowledge and ability. Something missing in the mindset too, I think. Stuff that Nalin touched upon. Here is a personal experience I had earlier in my career-- that illustrates some of whats wrong with sysadmins and IT-departments in a lot of indian company. (1) what a company's IT goals are; (2) what the approach and background of your manager/superior/organization's management are (3) what are your own career plans and willingness to be flexible; goal oriented and team oriented. I cant generalize much on (1) and (2) above in a public forum-- but on (3) my views are as below:-- (a) Do you want a stable average paying position even if you want tech compromises ? I once worked for a Bangalore office of a very large Indian networking company that had set up their bangalore presence just 1-2 years before I joined fresh out of college. At the time, the IT guys-- the sysadmins-- were administering a network of WIndowsNT 4.0 machines; with a HP-UX server and also some Linux presence included. The sysadmins were contract workers the company outsourced (I think either from Compaq OR from HP-- at the time, Compaq hadnt yet been acquired by HP). Soon a IT manager came-- who was a company employee-- answering only to the Bangalore Center's General Manager-- who was the goto guy for the GM and all the project managers. This IT manager had some power issues--- he liked to pretend he was managing the IT operations of a bank or of some government office with data-entry operators and confidential info. This was a tech company-- and mind you-- the people being denied access to their own computers were programmers-- who had been selected from amongst the best in their respective colleges. He would force programmers to justify every small requirement they had; he would refuse to give local system windows NT passwords-- and he would try to make programmers feel that if he wanted he could selectively force a few to justify their bandwidth usage and even usage of printers--- and he would do that only with the college-fresher programmers-- while being docile and nice to senior people--- he would also selectively deny a few project managers who were new or naive access to softwares their teams needed and satisfy his ego by forcing project managers to run circles around him or one of his guys. As you yourself can imagine--- openness and tech competence became a no-no--- and since he held the keys to each of the sysadmin's salary and salary hikes-- and even continuation at our site--- the sysadmins who could propogate his power game--- of keeping people worried and harried got ahead-- and those were the ones who apart from getting promoted got umpteen attempts at the competence exams. Perhaps, the sysadmins who were acting oversmart-- denying people access--- actually believed they were doing a good job--- perhaps they actually felt that the guys standing up to the MIS deptt actually were the villains. Also, you yourself can understand-- that any sysadmin who knew more but was not trusted by the boss-- would be milked for knowledge-- but not given credit or positive appraisals for his technical knowledge or skills. Also, anyone in this IT deptt who took initiative or was cooperative-- would be shown as deviating from the company's IT policies and overlooking process compliance norms. You yourself can imagine the kind of hell-hole that was--- and you yourself can imagine that if programmers-- were stressed and harassed--- what the situation of the guys who were actually the sys-admins would have been. - Coming from such a environment--- which I am sure-- is much worse in the Desi-Khandani-Karobaar type of companies... you yourself can imagine what the environment is... I personally would suggest and recommend to
Re: [ilugd] My query
I am an RHCE and I am teaching from more than 2 years How can apply job with you?? On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:36 AM, Gaurav Mishra gauravtec...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Yogesh Vaishnav friendy...@gmail.com wrote: Same Question here, I am RHCE too. And I have been working as a Sys Admin for last 7 months now. I want to switch job after completing 11 months. Please assist. Thanks. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Amar Singh jeet_ama...@yahoo.in wrote: How can i apply for a job with u (I am RHCE). Guys, hanging out on mailing list and trying to sell yourself will not take you guys anywhere in term of job, Believe me It's better to proffesionally network with people or search jobs through job search websites. Warm Regards Gaurav Mishra http://mediaredefined.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
Same Question here, I am RHCE too. And I have been working as a Sys Admin for last 7 months now. I want to switch job after completing 11 months. Please assist. Thanks. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Amar Singh jeet_ama...@yahoo.in wrote: How can i apply for a job with u (I am RHCE). flame Excuse my ignorance but what does being an RHCE or XYZ tell me? :-) /flame Regards, --Naresh ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
Naresh Narang nknar...@... writes: Excuse my ignorance but what does being an RHCE or XYZ tell me? The RHCEs are based on good exams AFAICS. What surprises me is why the people who pass them often aren't as capable as the certification would suggest. I've never really understood why that is. What's going on there? Comments? PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] My query
How can i apply for a job with u (I am RHCE). Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
Same Question here, I am RHCE too. And I have been working as a Sys Admin for last 7 months now. I want to switch job after completing 11 months. Please assist. Thanks. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Amar Singh jeet_ama...@yahoo.in wrote: How can i apply for a job with u (I am RHCE). Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- Yogesh Vaishnav Sys Admin, Web Hosting Department, Nettlinx Ltd, Hyderabad 9703609269 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] My query
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Yogesh Vaishnav friendy...@gmail.com wrote: Same Question here, I am RHCE too. And I have been working as a Sys Admin for last 7 months now. I want to switch job after completing 11 months. Please assist. Thanks. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Amar Singh jeet_ama...@yahoo.in wrote: How can i apply for a job with u (I am RHCE). Guys, hanging out on mailing list and trying to sell yourself will not take you guys anywhere in term of job, Believe me It's better to proffesionally network with people or search jobs through job search websites. Warm Regards Gaurav Mishra http://mediaredefined.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
