Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Paul Londoner]

Valter Psicoff, I'm interested in some older computers than the Power PC
Macs. These computers are the so called "home computers". I own an Amiga
A1200 with a Motorola 68020 CPU. This Amiga isn't set up to use the
Internet, though. Some other computers which people seem to be fascinated
with include Atari 8 bit, Enterprise, Memotech MTX, MSX, and Sinclair ZX
Spectrum. They all had their own style of keyboards, which aren't the same
as the layout which started with the IBM PC. It seems that the closest
keyboard layouts to the early IBM PC are the Commodore 128, and the Amiga
(all models). Just by getting a modern white, off white, or cream USB
keyboard, then adding a few stickers, you can recreate either of those
keyboards.

The main difference is that a lot of Motorola 68000-68040 MacIntosh
computers had built in CRT displays. When a built in CRT display fails,
then you've had it! If the display isn't built in, then you can replace it.
The replacement display needs to have a compatible plug or some kind of
adaptor. I think a good alternative to this would be the emulator
BasiliskII, though. I haven't set it up yet, though. If I did this, then
I'd have to make do with a more modern Mac keyboard and mouse, though. I've
already got the emulator vMac set up, but a lot of games and possibly other
software for this are in the old Stuffit format. I can't see how to run
Stuffi from inside the vMac emulator and it doesn't seem to run on my
Macs under Big Sur or Catalina, though.



On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 23:08, Jack Suggs  wrote:

> RE: I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do
>> with them.
>>
>> I have a pair of G4 'Graphite' Power PCs, 733 mhz, made in 2001, that I
> use for graphic design/page layout with QuarkXPress 4 and photo editing
> with Photoshop 7. And a matching G3 Graphite iMac 600mhz, also from 2001;
> it's jammed with MP3s.  I also have a pair of newer iMacs, one for the
> world wide web, the other for recording music. Plus two G3 iBook
> clamshells, one a Tangerine, the other a Blueberry. And I have others, but
> these are the oldest.
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Jack Suggs]

>
> RE: I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do
> with them.
>
> I have a pair of G4 'Graphite' Power PCs, 733 mhz, made in 2001, that I
use for graphic design/page layout with QuarkXPress 4 and photo editing
with Photoshop 7. And a matching G3 Graphite iMac 600mhz, also from 2001;
it's jammed with MP3s.  I also have a pair of newer iMacs, one for the
world wide web, the other for recording music. Plus two G3 iBook
clamshells, one a Tangerine, the other a Blueberry. And I have others, but
these are the oldest.

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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Valter Psicof]

>Valter, you said "I have installed OSX 10.9 Mavericks, and most software
>has a version for it (you might have to look for it in some archives,
>though)."
>
>What I meant by my question is that I want to know WHICH archives you
>look in! 

Well, it depends :-)
E.g.: I find an interesting app, I go to the developer website, and it
says it's compatible with OSX 10.12 or newer.
But that's the latest version. Many times the website has a section
(called Downloads, Archive, Previous versions, whatever) with older
versions. You have to look for it, though (many time it's somehow "hidden"
away).

You might need to Google "APP NAME and OSX Mavericks" to find which
version is compatible with your OS.
Sometimes doing so lets you find the "Archive" section that you couldn't
find on the website.
Sometimes you find an Open Source place (like GitHub) where files aren't
organized in a neat, user-friendly way (and I mean "not-engineer-type"),
so you have to explore and try many folders.

>AFAIK it's not the Apple website Developers area, not MacIntosh Garden,
>not MacIntosh Repository, and not oldversion.com 
>either! 

Usually you can't find a single place where all softwares are stored,
simply because most of them are still copyrighted.
Hence you have to hunt for it. As usual, Google is your friend :-)

>Some people might be using software they originally downloaded years ago
>from the Apple Appstore, but it seems that you can install software
>you've never installed before. Where do you get it?

I find the Appstore not much "collaborative" in that way.
After all, Apple established it to get money, not helping old users... ;-)

>Recently, I've been looking at some vintage MacIntosh computers on eBay,
>as the type of Macs I never knew, but I think it would probably be a
>stupid idea to buy any. I used to own a Blueberry iMac (1999) and a
>MacPro "Quicksilver" (2000), but recently I've been looking at some
>68000-68040 based Macs.

Unless you are REALLY into vintage computing, and spending lots of time
tinkering with it, I would ignore any Mac pre-Intel.
With the Intel processors there really was a huge step forward; especially
if you plan to use OSX. With pre-Intel Macs, it's more archeology than
computing ;-D
(they are still usable, of course, but finding apps and solutions for them
is like digging for fossil bones)

>I think a good money saving tip is to get or make a keyboard and a mouse
>for a retro computer that you've heard was absolutely amazing, connect it
>to a computer which can run an emulator for that computer, then you can
>save a fortune!

Sounds like "archeology" to me, but if that's what makes you ticking,
enjoy yourself! :-D


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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Paul Londoner]

Valter, you said "I have installed OSX 10.9 Mavericks, and most software
has a version for it (you might have to look for it in some archives,
though)."

What I meant by my question is that I want to know WHICH archives you look
in! AFAIK it's not the Apple website Developers area, not MacIntosh Garden,
not MacIntosh Repository, and not oldversion.com either! Some people might
be using software they originally downloaded years ago from the Apple
Appstore, but it seems that you can install software you've never installed
before. Where do you get it?

Recently, I've been looking at some vintage MacIntosh computers on eBay, as
the type of Macs I never knew, but I think it would probably be a stupid
idea to buy any. I used to own a Blueberry iMac (1999) and a MacPro
"Quicksilver" (2000), but recently I've been looking at some 68000-68040
based Macs. I think a good money saving tip is to get or make a keyboard
and a mouse for a retro computer that you've heard was absolutely amazing,
connect it to a computer which can run an emulator for that computer, then
you can save a fortune!

On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 05:29, Valter Psicof  wrote:

> >I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do
> >with them. Would someone like to explain?
>
> I'm still using an Early 2009 24" iMac. It's going great (although
> upgraded with 8 GB Ram and 1 TB HD).
> I have installed OSX 10.9 Mavericks, and most software has a version for
> it (you might have to look for it in some archives, though).
>
> The only thing I'm not using it for anymore, it's gaming (I bought a PC
> for that).
> Everything else, work included, I'm doing on this Mac - even if it's now
> 12 years old :-)
> Adobe Creative Suite CS6, MS Office 2011, Firefox, Thunderbid, VLC,
> Calibre, etc., they all work flawlessly - if a bit slowly sometimes.
>
> Sure, if you want to run the latest software you need something newer...
> but most of the time, if I look around I can find a suitable software that
> still runs in OSX 10.9. And if it doesn't... usually I don't really need
> it.
>
>
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> .
>

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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[R. A. Cantrell]

Thanks everybody for chipping in. Bruce had the solution which is TenFourFox.

On 5/18/21, Valter Psicof  wrote:
>>I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do
>>with them. Would someone like to explain?
>
> I'm still using an Early 2009 24" iMac. It's going great (although
> upgraded with 8 GB Ram and 1 TB HD).
> I have installed OSX 10.9 Mavericks, and most software has a version for
> it (you might have to look for it in some archives, though).
>
> The only thing I'm not using it for anymore, it's gaming (I bought a PC
> for that).
> Everything else, work included, I'm doing on this Mac - even if it's now
> 12 years old :-)
> Adobe Creative Suite CS6, MS Office 2011, Firefox, Thunderbid, VLC,
> Calibre, etc., they all work flawlessly - if a bit slowly sometimes.
>
> Sure, if you want to run the latest software you need something newer...
> but most of the time, if I look around I can find a suitable software that
> still runs in OSX 10.9. And if it doesn't... usually I don't really need
> it.
>
>
> --
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> group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs.
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>


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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Valter Psicof]

>I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do
>with them. Would someone like to explain?

I'm still using an Early 2009 24" iMac. It's going great (although
upgraded with 8 GB Ram and 1 TB HD).
I have installed OSX 10.9 Mavericks, and most software has a version for
it (you might have to look for it in some archives, though).

The only thing I'm not using it for anymore, it's gaming (I bought a PC
for that).
Everything else, work included, I'm doing on this Mac - even if it's now
12 years old :-)
Adobe Creative Suite CS6, MS Office 2011, Firefox, Thunderbid, VLC,
Calibre, etc., they all work flawlessly - if a bit slowly sometimes.

Sure, if you want to run the latest software you need something newer...
but most of the time, if I look around I can find a suitable software that
still runs in OSX 10.9. And if it doesn't... usually I don't really need
it.


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Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Paul Londoner]

Russell, I had lots of advice about buying a MacBook Pro (mid 2012),
because it's fairly easy to upgrade.

As for where I am, London at the moment. I managed to escape last year to
Berlin, but I was forced back thanks to all the COVID-19 restrictions. I
was still classed as a tourist and wasn't allowed to book accommodation any
more, so I had nowhere to sleep. I've just checked my Internet download
speed and it's 47.2Mbps.

I still don't know what people with Macs older than 2012 manage to do with
them. Would someone like to explain? There might be a secret stash of lots
of software somewhere I've never heard of, but that doesn't seem to be
MacIntosh Garden, or MacIntosh Repository.




On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 18:27, Russell Courtenay 
wrote:

> I know this is the iMac group but I appreciate the email discussion and it
> looks like this is the only email group on Macs that has survived Facebook!
> I am on Facebook too but wow is it a time waster...
>
> I’ve done a lot of research on the older MacBook Pros and I think 2012 is
> where it’s at. I have a 2010 and it is getting too slow to do much, with
> all the video conferencing we do these days it won’t do AirPlay well so my
> family can participate.
>
> My 2011 17” is beautiful and fast but has the graphics issue. As I have
> time I will apply the hardware fix but I needed something that works now.
>
> I really wanted a 2015 or 2016 but with the butterfly keyboard issues
> unresolved I finally paid a bit more and got a 2019 16” MacBook Pro and it
> is a dream. Now I just need to do enough work with it to make it pay for
> itself somehow...
>
> Now that my older MacBooks are retired from daily use I hope to make mods
> to them to make them work well into the 21st century!
>
> By the way, where are you located Paul?
>
> I am in the SW Idaho USA high desert, been living in the rurals and
> farming for years but now struggling to get used to living in the city. I
> like the good internet at least...
>
> Russell Courtenay
> Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 16, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Paul Londoner 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Bruce Johnson, I thought I should tell you how things have moved on for
> me.
>
> I never said I could afford anything like $649, or even $400! I'd never
> even heard of Fleabay before, but I joined and found out that they had no
> Macs near me. I assume this is because I'm not in the USA.
>
> Next, I bought a cheap MacBook Pro 13" (mid 2012) with 8Gb and a 500Gb HDD
> from eBay for less than the equivalent of $267. I was very happy with this,
> but after about two weeks the screen started flickering like mad, as well
> as blanking out and turning green! I don't think this had anything to do
> with me installing "Patched Sur", because it didn't happen immediately
> after that.
>
> After this, I thought I should buy another, cheaper MacBook Pro 13" (mid
> 2012) and see what I could do with it. I bought one for just under the
> equivalent of $151 also from eBay, which was showing the screen saying that
> it couldn't find an operating system. After it was delivered, I soon had
> Catalina installed on its 500Gb HDD. I quickly found out that this MBP (mid
> 2012) has only 4Gb of RAM, the very reason why I bought my second recent
> Mac, although it's upgradedable! It seemed to work more slowly than the
> other MBP.
>
> Later on, I bought a Philips 00 screwdriver and removed the back of the
> MBP with the faulty screen. I also have a new set of Torx screwdrivers. I
> had a look round and checked that the Philips 00 screwdriver would also
> unscrew the bracket holding the RAM in. I replaced the back of this MBP,
> but I lost one screw and another one wouldn't go in! The next thing I knew,
> I found that the screen was no longer giving me any problems!  This is
> still the situation a few days later and I'm  typing this message on it!
>
> I've made up a music track in Logic X Pro, and made a 1080p video on my
> Nokia 2.3 phone and MBA. I've also made a 1080p video on my Nokia 2.3 phone
> and my first MBP after the faulty screen problem disappeared. I'm now
> planning to upgrade one of both of my MBP computers to 16Gb and an SSD.
>
> I hear that some people can even upgrade the CPU on these 2012 MBP models
> from i5 to i7, so I'm considering having that done, but I don't think I
> could do it myself. Some people like to use the Davinci Resolve software,
> but I'm not sure what it can do which iMovie can't. Does it do CGI or
> what's so special about it? My ambition is to upgrade my MBP 2012 computers
> to be more powerful than models from years later. My ultimate goal is to
> create a clone of an Apple Silicon MacBook, using an iPad, a Raspberry Pi,
> or a Banana Pi computer.
>
>  --
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 16:49, Bruce Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Paul Londoner 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Johnson, I've done some more research on the Apple Appstore using
>> the facility of 

Re: Which Mac group? The ALL MACS List!

[Russell Courtenay]

I know this is the iMac group but I appreciate the email discussion and it 
looks like this is the only email group on Macs that has survived Facebook! I 
am on Facebook too but wow is it a time waster...

I’ve done a lot of research on the older MacBook Pros and I think 2012 is where 
it’s at. I have a 2010 and it is getting too slow to do much, with all the 
video conferencing we do these days it won’t do AirPlay well so my family can 
participate. 

My 2011 17” is beautiful and fast but has the graphics issue. As I have time I 
will apply the hardware fix but I needed something that works now. 

I really wanted a 2015 or 2016 but with the butterfly keyboard issues 
unresolved I finally paid a bit more and got a 2019 16” MacBook Pro and it is a 
dream. Now I just need to do enough work with it to make it pay for itself 
somehow...

Now that my older MacBooks are retired from daily use I hope to make mods to 
them to make them work well into the 21st century!

By the way, where are you located Paul? 

I am in the SW Idaho USA high desert, been living in the rurals and farming for 
years but now struggling to get used to living in the city. I like the good 
internet at least...

Russell Courtenay
Solemnity and profundity are sublime in inequity. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2021, at 9:22 PM, Paul Londoner  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bruce Johnson, I thought I should tell you how things have moved on for me. 
> 
> I never said I could afford anything like $649, or even $400! I'd never even 
> heard of Fleabay before, but I joined and found out that they had no Macs 
> near me. I assume this is because I'm not in the USA. 
> 
> Next, I bought a cheap MacBook Pro 13" (mid 2012) with 8Gb and a 500Gb HDD 
> from eBay for less than the equivalent of $267. I was very happy with this, 
> but after about two weeks the screen started flickering like mad, as well as 
> blanking out and turning green! I don't think this had anything to do with me 
> installing "Patched Sur", because it didn't happen immediately after that. 
> 
> After this, I thought I should buy another, cheaper MacBook Pro 13" (mid 
> 2012) and see what I could do with it. I bought one for just under the 
> equivalent of $151 also from eBay, which was showing the screen saying that 
> it couldn't find an operating system. After it was delivered, I soon had 
> Catalina installed on its 500Gb HDD. I quickly found out that this MBP (mid 
> 2012) has only 4Gb of RAM, the very reason why I bought my second recent Mac, 
> although it's upgradedable! It seemed to work more slowly than the other MBP. 
> 
> Later on, I bought a Philips 00 screwdriver and removed the back of the MBP 
> with the faulty screen. I also have a new set of Torx screwdrivers. I had a 
> look round and checked that the Philips 00 screwdriver would also unscrew the 
> bracket holding the RAM in. I replaced the back of this MBP, but I lost one 
> screw and another one wouldn't go in! The next thing I knew, I found that the 
> screen was no longer giving me any problems!  This is still the situation a 
> few days later and I'm  typing this message on it! 
> 
> I've made up a music track in Logic X Pro, and made a 1080p video on my Nokia 
> 2.3 phone and MBA. I've also made a 1080p video on my Nokia 2.3 phone and my 
> first MBP after the faulty screen problem disappeared. I'm now planning to 
> upgrade one of both of my MBP computers to 16Gb and an SSD.  
> 
> I hear that some people can even upgrade the CPU on these 2012 MBP models 
> from i5 to i7, so I'm considering having that done, but I don't think I could 
> do it myself. Some people like to use the Davinci Resolve software, but I'm 
> not sure what it can do which iMovie can't. Does it do CGI or what's so 
> special about it? My ambition is to upgrade my MBP 2012 computers to be more 
> powerful than models from years later. My ultimate goal is to create a clone 
> of an Apple Silicon MacBook, using an iPad, a Raspberry Pi, or a Banana Pi 
> computer. 
> 
>  --
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 16:49, Bruce Johnson  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
 On Apr 1, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Paul Londoner  wrote:
 
 Bruce Johnson, I've done some more research on the Apple Appstore using 
 the facility of clicking on the link "runs on this MacBook Air" to check 
 compatibiliy on older versions of macOS and here's what I found out. 
 
 SOFTWARE FROM APPLE APPSTORE WHICH  I HAVE INSTALLED OR CONSIDERED 
 INSTALLING ON MY MACBOOK AIR EARLY 2014 (4GB) SO WOULD ALSO WANT TO RUN ON 
 A "MacBook Pro 17" 2.66GHz Core i7 mid 2010" 
>>> 
>>> Latest supported macOS is only 10.13 High Sierra!! (EveryMac.com)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210222 
>>> 
>>> I assume that older versions of the apps above are available from the 
>>> Developers section of the Apple website, requiring a $99 annual 
>>> subscription. Can you tell me which of the apps above is available from 
>>> there for macOS 10.13 High Sierra?
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