Re: Re: cloned iMac Indigo won't boot
Just have to chime in from the sidelines. As one who owns/uses G3 and G4 iMacs and iBooks--all now running OSX10.4.11 with max RAM, I have to give a round of applause to Jim's email. Concise, accurate; very helpful. Jim Scott jesco...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 16, 2012, at 8:34 PM, rebtevye wipeda...@gmail.com wrote: USE CASE: Supporting a grade school Mac lab and am trying to make a consistent load for all of the iMacs (G3, Indigo, 500MB RAM), with OS 10.4 and OS 9.2.1 PROCESS: I followed the recommendations in How to Clone Mac OS X to a New Hard Drive, using Carbon Copy Cloner instead of SuperDuper. To simplify this operation, I connected the target iMac to the source machine using a firewire cable, and starting it in [T]arget disk mode. RESULT: The transfer went very well, however, when I disconnected the two machines and tried to boot the target iMac, the gray OSX startup screen came up briefly, then a black square ~2 x 3 popped up on the screen and the computer shut down. When this has happened in the past, I started up from a OSX install disk and re-installed the OS. This time, I tried booting in Safe Mode (hold Shift after chime, and release at gray apple), and the computer booted up, starting me at a user selection/login screen. When in Safe Mode, I ran Disk Utility and confirmed permissions were OK. I also reset PRAM on the next restart. Still, the computer either gave the black warning screen, or just went dark and shut off. Any other suggestions? I would rather not re-install from scratch on every computer, plus I like the advantage of having the same 'student' and 'admin' user accounts on every iMac in the lab. What you are experiencing is a kernel panic. In G3 iMacs on which OS X has been loaded, this usually means bad or incompatible RAM. To successfully run OS X on a G3 iMac, both sticks must be the same speed, have the same latency and preferably be made by the same manufacturer. IOW, they should be identical in all performance characteristics, except capacity, ie they can be of different sizes (64 MB, 128 MB, etc.) I have successfully done exactly what you are attempting to do, and also in a grade school Mac lab. Since OS X 10.4 is very picky about RAM, and does all sorts of strange things when it doesn't like the RAM, the first thing I do with a G3 iMac is to put it on its side and open the RAM door. Then I boot it from the Apple Hardware Test disk. If the iMac chimes and boots with the installed RAM, that's a good sign. If it beeps or refuses to chime and boot, I substitute RAM until it does chime and boot. If the iMac chimed and booted, I then check to see if the specs of the two sticks are identical. Both must be matched, with the same latency (CL: 2.5 etc.), and with the same PC100 or PC 133 numbers. The amount of RAM on each stick can vary, but the specs must be identical *in that particular iMac*. Mismatched latency can really play havoc with a G3 iMac running OS X, as can mismatching PC 100 with PC 133. Data moves at different speeds because of the mismatch and sooner or later OS X cries Help! and that's the kernel panic screen you see. (When I've got a large number of iMacs, I usually put all the available RAM -- 512 MB is optimal -- into a big pile and laboriously test pairs of sticks using just one iMac. As I identify specification-matching pairs, I mark them AHT OK and put them in an iMac. It's a lot of work, but it's the only way to ensure the iMac will run OK with OS X 10.4. OS X 10.3 and earlier versions were much more forgiving of mismatched RAM, but not good ole Tiger. If, after sorting out the RAM you still have problems, check to make sure the iMac slot-loader's firmware has been updated to (IIRC) 4.19f1 or something like that. I still find G3 iMacs that have never had their firmware upgraded to the latest. Since Apple's Software Update stopped being available to G3 iMacs online this year, you may have to dig into apple.com's support website a bit to find and download the firmware updater. Have fun! Jim Scott -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at
Re: cloned iMac Indigo won't boot
On Aug 16, 2012, at 8:34 PM, rebtevye wrote: USE CASE: Supporting a grade school Mac lab and am trying to make a consistent load for all of the iMacs (G3, Indigo, 500MB RAM), with OS 10.4 and OS 9.2.1 PROCESS: I followed the recommendations in How to Clone Mac OS X to a New Hard Drive, using Carbon Copy Cloner instead of SuperDuper. To simplify this operation, I connected the target iMac to the source machine using a firewire cable, and starting it in [T]arget disk mode. RESULT: The transfer went very well, however, when I disconnected the two machines and tried to boot the target iMac, the gray OSX startup screen came up briefly, then a black square ~2 x 3 popped up on the screen and the computer shut down. That is known as a kernel panic. The core of the operating system, the kernel, knows something is very wrong but can't do anything about it. When this has happened in the past, I started up from a OSX install disk and re-installed the OS. This time, I tried booting in Safe Mode (hold Shift after chime, and release at gray apple), and the computer booted up, starting me at a user selection/login screen. When in Safe Mode, I ran Disk Utility and confirmed permissions were OK. I also reset PRAM on the next restart. This is definitely NOT a permissions issue. Try Disk Verify, THAT might find a related problem. Still, the computer either gave the black warning screen, or just went dark and shut off. Any other suggestions? I would rather not re-install from scratch on every computer, plus I like the advantage of having the same 'student' and 'admin' user accounts on every iMac in the lab. Have you tried cloning this system to another computer? Typically this is due to bad memory. A simple test, if it has two DIMMs is to swap them. It won't fix the problem but it should result in a different symptom. If it does then one (or both) are bad. I worked in a grade school and used CCC to install the OS several times on about 250 computers. I perhaps had a problem a handful of times, all related to the specific computer and not to the cloning process. I may have even had a kernel panic (KP) but I can't recall it happening. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: cloned iMac Indigo won't boot
On Aug 16, 2012, at 8:34 PM, rebtevye wipeda...@gmail.com wrote: USE CASE: Supporting a grade school Mac lab and am trying to make a consistent load for all of the iMacs (G3, Indigo, 500MB RAM), with OS 10.4 and OS 9.2.1 PROCESS: I followed the recommendations in How to Clone Mac OS X to a New Hard Drive, using Carbon Copy Cloner instead of SuperDuper. To simplify this operation, I connected the target iMac to the source machine using a firewire cable, and starting it in [T]arget disk mode. RESULT: The transfer went very well, however, when I disconnected the two machines and tried to boot the target iMac, the gray OSX startup screen came up briefly, then a black square ~2 x 3 popped up on the screen and the computer shut down. When this has happened in the past, I started up from a OSX install disk and re-installed the OS. This time, I tried booting in Safe Mode (hold Shift after chime, and release at gray apple), and the computer booted up, starting me at a user selection/login screen. When in Safe Mode, I ran Disk Utility and confirmed permissions were OK. I also reset PRAM on the next restart. Still, the computer either gave the black warning screen, or just went dark and shut off. Any other suggestions? I would rather not re-install from scratch on every computer, plus I like the advantage of having the same 'student' and 'admin' user accounts on every iMac in the lab. What you are experiencing is a kernel panic. In G3 iMacs on which OS X has been loaded, this usually means bad or incompatible RAM. To successfully run OS X on a G3 iMac, both sticks must be the same speed, have the same latency and preferably be made by the same manufacturer. IOW, they should be identical in all performance characteristics, except capacity, i.e. they can be of different sizes (64 MB, 128 MB, etc.) I have successfully done exactly what you are attempting to do, and also in a grade school Mac lab. Since OS X 10.4 is very picky about RAM, and does all sorts of strange things when it doesn't like the RAM, the first thing I do with a G3 iMac is to put it on its side and open the RAM door. Then I boot it from the Apple Hardware Test disk. If the iMac chimes and boots with the installed RAM, that's a good sign. If it beeps or refuses to chime and boot, I substitute RAM until it does chime and boot. If the iMac chimed and booted, I then check to see if the specs of the two sticks are identical. Both must be matched, with the same latency (CL: 2.5 etc.), and with the same PC100 or PC 133 numbers. The amount of RAM on each stick can vary, but the specs must be identical *in that particular iMac*. Mismatched latency can really play havoc with a G3 iMac running OS X, as can mismatching PC 100 with PC 133. Data moves at different speeds because of the mismatch and sooner or later OS X cries Help! and that's the kernel panic screen you see. (When I've got a large number of iMacs, I usually put all the available RAM -- 512 MB is optimal -- into a big pile and laboriously test pairs of sticks using just one iMac. As I identify specification-matching pairs, I mark them AHT OK and put them in an iMac. It's a lot of work, but it's the only way to ensure the iMac will run OK with OS X 10.4. OS X 10.3 and earlier versions were much more forgiving of mismatched RAM, but not good ole Tiger. If, after sorting out the RAM you still have problems, check to make sure the iMac slot-loader's firmware has been updated to (IIRC) 4.19f1 or something like that. I still find G3 iMacs that have never had their firmware upgraded to the latest. Since Apple's Software Update stopped being available to G3 iMacs online this year, you may have to dig into apple.com's support website a bit to find and download the firmware updater. Have fun! Jim Scott -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
