Re: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

2012-03-28 Thread Paul Norman
Reviewing this file, it only contains highway=residential, highway=track,
highway=footway, highway=pedestrian and leisure=garden. Are you not
proposing to import anything other than streets and gardens?

 

The accuracy of the roads appears to be good, although potentially dated.
The NW cluster of data overlaps with the E-90 which appears in the imagery
to have been recently expanded.

 

I’ve placed a screenshot of an area up at
http://maps.paulnorman.ca/imports/review/spanish_temp1.png

 

 

From: Carlos Dávila [mailto:cdavi...@orangecorreo.es] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:00 AM
To: imports@openstreetmap.org
Cc: Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap
Subject: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

 

Some days ago I sent the mail below to the list, but by an error it went
only to Paul Norman and the Spanish mailing list. I would like to get
feedback from you about the sample data from Spanish Cadastre to be imported
[1]. A new sample can be downloaded from [2].
P.S. FYI, we have written some draft information in English about the import
at [3]
[2] http://mapas.alternativaslibres.es/Don_Benito.zip
[3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Spanish_Cadastre_import

 Mensaje original  


Asunto: 

Re: [Imports] Spanish cadastre


Fecha: 

Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:47:17 +0100


De: 

Carlos Dávila  mailto:cdavi...@orangecorreo.es cdavi...@orangecorreo.es


Para: 

Paul Norman  mailto:penor...@mac.com penor...@mac.com


CC: 

Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap  mailto:talk...@openstreetmap.org
talk...@openstreetmap.org

 

El 22/03/12 20:38, Paul Norman escribió:
 From: Carlos Dávila [mailto:cdavi...@orangecorreo.es]
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:28 AM
 To: imports@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Imports] Spanish cadastre
 
 This mail is to announce the intention of the Spanish OSM community to
 import data from Spanish Cadastre and get feedback from you.
 The idea of this import arises with the publication of the license and
 access criteria to massive download of data from Spanish Cadastre [1] on
 march 2011, which states: Public use of cadastrial data is permitted,
 including commercial use, if such data have been previously transformed
 in any way Original data is supplied as shapefiles with different
 coordinate reference systems. Reprojecting those shapefiles to EPSG:4326
 and converting to *.osm format is enough transformation to allow
 mentioned public use, according with the reference Spanish Law of
 intellectual property [2], as established in its article 21, which also
 says that copyrights of the transformed product belongs to the
 transformer, in this case the (Spanish) OSM community.
 Data from Spanish Cadastre is known to have a high accuracy and include
 a lot of information of interest for OSM project, such as buildings
 (shape, use, height, number of floors, etc.), rural and urban parcels
 land use, most of streets and roads of the country, power stations,
 tracks and paths, trees... Many of this information is currently in OSM,
 mainly ways and roads, but a great part is still missing, specially in
 low populated areas where a ground survey is less likely to be made.
 This import has been largely discussed on Spanish mailing list, with a
 general consensus on the usefulness of the import and a we must do it
 agreement.
 Specific software (cat2osm) is being developed [3] to import data, which
 source code is available at Github [4]. It is currently being tested by
 some members of the community to get a stable status. Some images of the
 preliminary results can be seen at [5]. Transformed data is thought to
 be always manually checked in JOSM by osmers knowing the area and only
 after that uploaded. The way original data is translated into osm format
 by cat2osm tool is documented in [6] and has been established with the
 participation of several members of the community.
  
 What is your proposed tagging of these objects?
 
 Cadastre generally have a lot of detailed information, not all of which is
 suitable for importing into OSM. Which datasets do you intend to import
and
 which do you intend to leave out?
 

 Specific accounts have been created for the import, one for each Spanish
 province [7]. There's a member of the Spanish community responsible of
 each province import.
  
 What software do you plan to use to conflate with existing OSM data?
 How do you intend to upload the data?
 Approximately how large will the changesets be?
 

 Looking forward for your comments
 Carlos Dávila
  
 I suggest breaking your import proposal into sub-proposals for each type
of
 data set. E.g. have a different proposal for roads than for buildings.
 
 
 

cat2osm can process data of a given municipality as a whole or in 
separate steps, processing different kind of data. That result in 
separate *.osm files, containing buildings, highway=*, parcels, 
subparcels, etc. Also urban and rural areas are in separate input 
shapefiles. What I want to show you is that 

Re: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

2012-03-28 Thread Pieren
2012/3/28 Jaak Laineste j...@nutiteq.com


  - Never mass-upload data to OSM.


And you write this on the imports mailing list...

It is extremely important to understand that the community must come first,
 not the map.


I've seen this argument in the past. I did not know that OSM was primarily
a social network service where the best map was a consequence, not the
objective.

Pieren
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Re: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

2012-03-28 Thread Jaak Laineste (Nutiteq)


On 28.03.2012, at 11:53, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:

 2012/3/28 Jaak Laineste j...@nutiteq.com
 
  - Never mass-upload data to OSM.
 
 And you write this on the imports mailing list...

Right. Sorry ;)


 It is extremely important to understand that the community must come first, 
 not the map.
 
 I've seen this argument in the past. I did not know that OSM was primarily a 
 social network service where the best map was a consequence, not the 
 objective.
 

It is a network, but not for socializing. It is a mapping network. If you have 
the community, map will come, but not vice versa. 


 Pieren
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Re: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

2012-03-28 Thread Carlos Dávila

El 28/03/12 15:40, Pieren escribió:

I find a bit strange the way you plan the import. The source is
providing the same dataset quality and completness for all
municipalities but each contributor will be able to choose his own
subset (e.g. with or without landuse or parcels) based on personnal
assumptions. This will lead to a hugh inconsistency between
neighborhoods.
   
Should I stop mapping my city because another city a few kilometers away 
is much less mapped? If you are looking for consistency in a 
collaborative project where thousands of contributors add data I think 
you are in the wrong place. We've been asked to split the import by 
different type of data and now the problem seems to be right the 
opposite =-O

You also have to know that once your tool is published, you will
quickly find dumped osm extractsready to import for the whole
country even with parcels and landuse. And quickly some irresponsible
contributors will blindly upload everything.
 From our similar experience with the french cadastre, I would advice
to publish a tool where the output is not configurable, data is
already simplified and geometry issues fixed (like polygons, lines,
points overlapping or not joining, etc). Do not expect that people
will take care about quality before uploading. Even if most of the
contributors will, some of them are just looking for quantity, not
quality, as soon as it renders good enough on the mapnik slippy map.
And they don't care if the map is not or hardly editable with current
editors after their import.
I'm afraid idiots will ever exist, with or without cat2osm. Would you 
forbid cars all over the world because from time to time an stupid 
drives in a motorway the opposite direction just for jun? If you think 
this way, you should try to convince JOSM developers to disable WMS 
capability, because some irresponsible contributors will blindly use 
it to map over imagery not compatible with OSM license.

Carlos

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Re: [Imports] Fwd: Re: Spanish cadastre

2012-03-28 Thread Mike N

On 3/28/2012 9:06 AM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:

Also, guess how many Spaniards have spoken against this import.


 I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I'm curious if any locals have 
spoken against the import.   Also if anyone has mapped when visiting 
other areas with the Corrine or LandUse imports and been happy with the 
edit experience?


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