Re: Making a file writeable
[ On Friday, October 12, 2001 at 11:21:03 (GMT), Bryon Lape wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Making a file writeable > > Freedom? What freedom? Is it not source "control" or is it source "freedom"? > One is free to more easily and quickly lay waste to another's work, but that's > hardly an improvement. > > CVS smells just like what it is, an acedemic exercize. Did you not yet read Berliner's paper? Did you not yet read Dick Grune's descriptions of why he wrote the original CVS (early 1986)? CVS was always an entirely a practical solution to very practical and day-to-day problems. It broke no really new ground. Other tools have employed the same parallel development methodology long before Dick Grune introduced his CVS to the world. There is nothing "academic" about CVS whatsoever. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Planix, Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Secrets of the Weird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
[ On Thursday, October 11, 2001 at 23:16:48 (-0600), James Knowles wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Making a file writeable > > I guess it's like freedom. Freedom scares the living daylights out of people > conditioned to living under tight controls. Very good point. Some (many? most?) people just aren't very good at risk assesment, which is what this kind of behaviour really boils down to. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Planix, Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Secrets of the Weird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
The problem is that you have multiple developers modifying the same area of code without communicating with each other. The way that you haven't solved that problem in the past is to not allow two developers to be able to modify the same source file at the same time. That costs you time when the areas of code that the developers are modifying are non-overlapping (two different methods of the same class, for example). Since you don't seem to be complaining about your inability to do *that*, I guess that your management is unable to divide the work in such a fashion or your code is so spaghetti-like that you *cannot* divide your work in such a fashion. It seems that you should find a source control tool that acts the way that you wish. That tool isn't CVS. ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
>Then spend time doing the merge by hand and having to >possibly to ahold of the programmer who made other changes to make sure everything >is done correctly. Now two programmers, at least, are being unproductive and >costs are going up. Don't you have regression tests to check if you've broken something? Noel James Knowles wrote: > > In a sane and normal source control > > system, > > Do you mean a "we can't figure out how to implement parallel development so > we'll put a straightjacket on our customers and convince them that it's > superior" source control system? > > > files stay read only until you check them out. > > Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad > Oh how many times I've wanted to smack somebody up side the head for this. > > This is OK only in some development environments. > > > CVS seems to be > > neither and lets people change files at will. This is quite bad and counter > > productive. > > Have you attempted to understand the theory of operation? I've spent a > weekend giving myself a crash course in CVS. Yes, it's different than, say > Visual Source Safe, but it's neither wrong, bad, nor counterproductive. I > rather like it. Sadly it's freaking another developer out in a big way -- > and I have to deal with him. > > CVS requires a mental adjustment to client-oriented parallel development. > The straightjacket is off. > > I guess it's like freedom. Freedom scares the living daylights out of people > conditioned to living under tight controls. > > -- > Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. > - Seville ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates. ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
Freedom? What freedom? Is it not source "control" or is it source "freedom"? One is free to more easily and quickly lay waste to another's work, but that's hardly an improvement. CVS smells just like what it is, an acedemic exercize. I've used all manner of them over the years: PostgreSQL, Harvest, glimpe, web-glimpse, GN/WN, Squid, CGI.pm; long before they were popular. This is the first one to be counterproductive. When I can spend 3 minutes and seriously break merging, that's not productive and that's not an improvement. Perhaps it should be renamed to better reflect what it really does, "Quasi-Successful Source Merging Tool". Btw, VSS sucks, with the exception being the ability to browse. If the could add the browse feature into CCC Harvest (not to be confused with the Harvest above), that would be nice. There is also an unfortunate mixing of common terms by CVS. When a developer does a "checkout" they are really doing an "update and make writeable" which is a switch (unless they have WinCVS and which case the files may not be writeable). Now add "update" before "commit" so changes, if any, can be merged, which will more than likely fail. Then spend time doing the merge by hand and having to possibly to ahold of the programmer who made other changes to make sure everything is done correctly. Now two programmers, at least, are being unproductive and costs are going up. James Knowles wrote: > > In a sane and normal source control > > system, > > Do you mean a "we can't figure out how to implement parallel development so > we'll put a straightjacket on our customers and convince them that it's > superior" source control system? > > > files stay read only until you check them out. > > Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad > Oh how many times I've wanted to smack somebody up side the head for this. > > This is OK only in some development environments. > > > CVS seems to be > > neither and lets people change files at will. This is quite bad and counter > > productive. > > Have you attempted to understand the theory of operation? I've spent a > weekend giving myself a crash course in CVS. Yes, it's different than, say > Visual Source Safe, but it's neither wrong, bad, nor counterproductive. I > rather like it. Sadly it's freaking another developer out in a big way -- > and I have to deal with him. > > CVS requires a mental adjustment to client-oriented parallel development. > The straightjacket is off. > > I guess it's like freedom. Freedom scares the living daylights out of people > conditioned to living under tight controls. > > -- > Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. > - Seville ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
> In a sane and normal source control > system, Do you mean a "we can't figure out how to implement parallel development so we'll put a straightjacket on our customers and convince them that it's superior" source control system? > files stay read only until you check them out. Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Oh how many times I've wanted to smack somebody up side the head for this. This is OK only in some development environments. > CVS seems to be > neither and lets people change files at will. This is quite bad and counter > productive. Have you attempted to understand the theory of operation? I've spent a weekend giving myself a crash course in CVS. Yes, it's different than, say Visual Source Safe, but it's neither wrong, bad, nor counterproductive. I rather like it. Sadly it's freaking another developer out in a big way -- and I have to deal with him. CVS requires a mental adjustment to client-oriented parallel development. The straightjacket is off. I guess it's like freedom. Freedom scares the living daylights out of people conditioned to living under tight controls. -- Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. - Seville ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
[ On Wednesday, October 10, 2001 at 00:59:20 (GMT), Bryon Lape wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Making a file writeable > > This only works on the first checkout. In a sane and normal source control > system, files stay read only until you check them out. CVS seems to be > neither and lets people change files at will. This is quite bad and counter > productive. In the concurrent (parallel) development model enforced by CVS all developers are encouraged to make changes to any files at any time. In some types of projects, eg. a large integrated program with many sub-systems (eg. an OS kernel), where many developers may have to make tiny but sweeping changes through the whole source tree, this kind of model is the only one that is "productive". In other types of projects this concurrent model is more or less invisible and of no impact, positive or negative. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Planix, Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Secrets of the Weird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
This only works on the first checkout. In a sane and normal source control system, files stay read only until you check them out. CVS seems to be neither and lets people change files at will. This is quite bad and counter productive. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > When a Linux user goes a checkout of a module, all the files are > > writeable and they stay that way even after a commit. When a Windows > > user, however, does a checkout via WinCVS, all the files are read-only. > > Is there a way to make them writeable via WinCVS? Also, when the files > > are comitted, they become read-only as well. > > Open your Admin->Preferences menu. Select the tab labeled "Globals" from > the resulting dialog. Look for a checkbox labeled "Checkout read-only." > Uncheck it. > > That should fix your problem, I think. > > TTYL, > > Phillip Rhodes > Application Designer > Voice Data Solutions > 919-571-4300 x225 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, > will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin > > This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. > Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can > exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their > revolutionary right to overthrow it. - Abraham Lincoln > > No citizen shall be denied the right to bear arms, if as a last resort, to > protect themselves from tyranny in Government. - Thomas Jefferson ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
RE: Making a file writeable
Thanks for the info. I found this just after posting. But this does help to defeat locking if one cannot choose files individually. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:18 PM To: Bryon Lape Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Making a file writeable > When a Linux user goes a checkout of a module, all the files are > writeable and they stay that way even after a commit. When a Windows > user, however, does a checkout via WinCVS, all the files are read-only. > Is there a way to make them writeable via WinCVS? Also, when the files > are comitted, they become read-only as well. Open your Admin->Preferences menu. Select the tab labeled "Globals" from the resulting dialog. Look for a checkbox labeled "Checkout read-only." Uncheck it. That should fix your problem, I think. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. - Abraham Lincoln No citizen shall be denied the right to bear arms, if as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in Government. - Thomas Jefferson ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Re: Making a file writeable
> When a Linux user goes a checkout of a module, all the files are > writeable and they stay that way even after a commit. When a Windows > user, however, does a checkout via WinCVS, all the files are read-only. > Is there a way to make them writeable via WinCVS? Also, when the files > are comitted, they become read-only as well. Open your Admin->Preferences menu. Select the tab labeled "Globals" from the resulting dialog. Look for a checkbox labeled "Checkout read-only." Uncheck it. That should fix your problem, I think. TTYL, Phillip Rhodes Application Designer Voice Data Solutions 919-571-4300 x225 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. - Abraham Lincoln No citizen shall be denied the right to bear arms, if as a last resort, to protect themselves from tyranny in Government. - Thomas Jefferson ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
Making a file writeable
When a Linux user goes a checkout of a module, all the files are writeable and they stay that way even after a commit. When a Windows user, however, does a checkout via WinCVS, all the files are read-only. Is there a way to make them writeable via WinCVS? Also, when the files are comitted, they become read-only as well. ___ Info-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-cvs
