Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
--On 3 July 2009 01:02:35 -0400 Greg A. Woods woods-cy...@weird.com wrote: At Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:26:16 -, jul...@precisium.com jul...@precisium.com wrote: Subject: Re: Automatically moving marked mails? In the present commercial environment - they are more likely to learn (with the not so subtle help of certain consultants), that their MUA works perfectly well with an Exchange server - and that their current server provider is probably using some dodgy free system... so the client should change email providers. It's not always easy to counter that sort of thing. I really don't know anyone, neither amongst home-based users nor corporate e-mail users, who truly believe they're better off with an MS-Exchange server handling their e-mail, Outlook users here don't like the fact that some of their MUA functionality is greyed out. I'd like to hear of some OSS solution. We're currently using Cyrus-IMAP and Meeting Maker with an Outlook connector. Unfortunately, the types of recurring meeting that you can create don't overlap - both Exchange and Outlook support types that don't map to the other software. There's pressure here to move to Exchange because it supports Outlook better. especially if they've previously used a decent IMAP client connected to a Cyrus server. Most folks put up with it because they don't have any choice and that's because their IT guy got a good free game of golf or similar from the sales guy who sold him up the creek on using Exchange. BTW, I find telling folks that Cyrus was built to satisfy the needs and demands of tens of thousands of picky but highly intelligent users in an academic environment where e-mail is arguably even more important than it often is in corporate circles, and where the developers really couldn't pull the wool over anyone's eyes usually makes the nay-sayers think twice, or at least hopefully shows them one tiny inkling of a clue that their own experience may not be at the true centre of the e-mail universe. Switching to thunderbird is likely to be a harder change for some departments or companies than changing service providers. (especially if they have existing business processes or integration with other office products etc) Well, as many have said, Thunderbird is hardly the pinnacle of perfection when it comes to IMAP clients. Sadly many of the other common, and especially other free ones, are not ideal on all fronts either. For me Apple OS X Mail has been better than some, but it also has some very annoying traits, My biggest annoyance is that it creates non-compliant message headers when mailing to Address Book groups. I use Mulberry at work, and Apple Mail on my laptop. and it lacks the one feature I earlier suggested is ideal for handling IMAP 2-phase deletion and expunge. Mulberry mail was on the right track, but it seems to have died. Yes, I'm convinced that's for the absence of a simple user interface. 90% of it's features should be hidden from 90% of users. The cross-platform thing doesn't seem to work very well, either. Maybe the Qualcomm folks will do something better with Thunderbird with their Penelope extensions. As always, the best thing is to choose the right tool for the job. It can hardly be accidental that Microsoft's flagship email clients don't quite interoperate nicely with standards based IMAP servers. Seems to me it's a driver towards sales of Exchange server services. Indeed -- it is no accident, and it's not just about MS-Exchange, it's a whole philosophy and business methodology engineered to put the screws to open standards and open source. -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex 01273-873148 x3148 For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/ Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Cyrus IMAP mailboxes with LDAP
Hello, I am looking for a way to store mailbox quotas and ACLs for Cyrus IMAP in LDAP. Is there a ready made solution for this purpose? If not, how can it be possibly done? Thank you! Regards, Evgeniy Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Db4 problems
Andrew Morgan schreef: Here's what I recommend - get rid of Berkeley DB in Cyrus and use skiplist instead. :) Thanks for your help. I tested it and it seemed to work. Now it's running in production for a few hours too, and I have seen no errors anymore ;-) With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- http://www.vandervlis.nl/ Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 01:02:35AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: I really don't know anyone, neither amongst home-based users nor corporate e-mail users, who truly believe they're better off with an MS-Exchange server handling their e-mail, especially if they've previously used a decent IMAP client connected to a Cyrus server. Most folks put up with it because they don't have any choice and that's because their IT guy got a good free game of golf or similar from the sales guy who sold him up the creek on using Exchange. There's pressure here too to move from Cyrus to Microsoft Exchange. It seems to be coming from administrators rather than students. Is there someplace an unbiased comparison of the two? I see lots of negative reports about Exchange, but they mostly come from people who are using another product based on open standards. -- -Gary Mills--Unix Support--U of M Academic Computing and Networking- Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
--On 3 July 2009 09:25:06 -0500 Gary Mills mi...@cc.umanitoba.ca wrote: On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 01:02:35AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: I really don't know anyone, neither amongst home-based users nor corporate e-mail users, who truly believe they're better off with an MS-Exchange server handling their e-mail, especially if they've previously used a decent IMAP client connected to a Cyrus server. Most folks put up with it because they don't have any choice and that's because their IT guy got a good free game of golf or similar from the sales guy who sold him up the creek on using Exchange. There's pressure here too to move from Cyrus to Microsoft Exchange. It seems to be coming from administrators rather than students. Is there someplace an unbiased comparison of the two? I see lots of negative reports about Exchange, but they mostly come from people who are using another product based on open standards. I was speaking to a friend who provides Exchange servers for small businesses locally. He says that the most important thing is to have a really good (fast, available and accurate) disaster recovery procedure, because you need it a lot. -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex 01273-873148 x3148 For new support requests, see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/its/help/ Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
Ian Eiloart wrote: I was speaking to a friend who provides Exchange servers for small businesses locally. He says that the most important thing is to have a really good (fast, available and accurate) disaster recovery procedure, because you need it a lot. Here in Germany we have a bigger pressure. Microsoft offers university to get Exchange for free for the whole campus at Microsoft's cloud, so they want to offer a complete outsourcing. Sure, they don't have any procedure how to get all data out of Exchange after this for free period but they get very aggressive, writing directory to the board of directors of the university. Whilst it is complete nonsense that an internet cut results in non-mail-connectivity between one office to the other (how dumb is that, to write to your room neighbour, you have to go to via a remote exchange cloud...). Things are getting hard. We believe in open standards, we want to have our mails and appointments in a system which is at every time perfectly changeable. We don't want a data dead end resulting in a complete dependency on one manufacturer. Zimbra is another show stopper here. Many want Zimbra because it is soo cool and blah blah blah. But with 14,000 accounts, our central LDAP infrastructure and the Solaris 10 servers with ZFS, running Cyrus IMAP, there is no really good reason to migrate all to Zimbra just to have CalDAV calendaring. Zimbra means endless redo logs, bad performance with many accounts, ... ... I don't like these all in one solutions, but the people here LIKE THEIR OUTLOOK! Everybody wants to use Outlook and our students want Google, they like Gogle! Safe harbour for personal data? not interesting to this youth which even posts pictures of their drunk parties on facebook :-\ Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 09:25 -0500, Gary Mills wrote: On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 01:02:35AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: I really don't know anyone, neither amongst home-based users nor corporate e-mail users, who truly believe they're better off with an MS-Exchange server handling their e-mail, especially if they've previously used a decent IMAP client connected to a Cyrus server. Most folks put up with it because they don't have any choice and that's because their IT guy got a good free game of golf or similar from the sales guy who sold him up the creek on using Exchange. There's pressure here too to move from Cyrus to Microsoft Exchange. It seems to be coming from administrators rather than students. Is there someplace an unbiased comparison of the two? No, I don't think the two are even comparable; not because Exchange is so terrible but because Cyrus is an IMAP server and Exchange is a Mail Server a collaboration platform (aka groupware, which is a terrible term). I see lots of negative reports about Exchange, but they mostly come from people who are using another product based on open standards. I'm always amused at tech conferences how many of the pitches are for products for or relating to dealing with Exchange and keeping it running. Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
I don't like these all in one solutions, but the people here LIKE THEIR OUTLOOK! Everybody wants to use Outlook and our students want Google, they like Gogle! Safe harbour for personal data? not interesting to this youth which even posts pictures of their drunk parties on facebook :-\ Have you looked at the ZideOne plugin? That provides pretty darn good functionality and works with a variety of Open servers (via CardDAV, CalDAV, and GroupDAV). It will even work with straight up apache. http://www.zideone.com/ But storing contacts in LDAP is something nothing is every going to support as LDAP schema is just a mess. Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
At Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:25:06 -0500, Gary Mills mi...@cc.umanitoba.ca wrote: Subject: Re: Automatically moving marked mails? There's pressure here too to move from Cyrus to Microsoft Exchange. It seems to be coming from administrators rather than students. Is there someplace an unbiased comparison of the two? I see lots of negative reports about Exchange, but they mostly come from people who are using another product based on open standards. The thing to do, perhaps, is as good a cost-benefit analysis of various features against licensing, hardware, and support costs. A somewhat useful example of such analysis, though quite a bit has to be inferred because of the nature of its authorship, and it is somewhat dated now, is the report about the conversion away from FreeBSD when Hotmail was taken over by Microsoft and (eventually) moved onto Microsoft products. I suspect this venture cost Microsoft much more than they were even able to admit to themselves, let alone what we as outsiders can guess. Personally I believe that Microsoft knew it would be critical for them to acquire a large Unix-based internet service and convert it over to M$ products just to prove to the world (and perhaps themselves) that it could be done, and the fact that many of the documents about this conversion were leaked and/or published is in fact evidence supporting my theory. This Hotmail conversion process now provides the background material for all the current conversion guides M$ uses to sell customers and potential customers on the idea that it is feasible to convert from open (and free) systems to closed, licensed, systems. If M$'s documents about their Hotmail conversion actually sway you toward using M$ solutions, perhaps you should also read the famous Microsoft Halloween Papers. I suppose for folks without reasonably extensive systems programming experience the value of an open-source based system is much more difficult to assess. Part the question is about control, and part of it is about capitalism and profiteering (which of course usually requires control to be taken away from users and held tightly by those hoping to profit from the services and/or products they sell). Can the elephantine behemoth of Microsoft really provide cost advantages to all their users because of their size and control, or is it just evidence of how well they are able to control the market and profit from it? -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098VE3TCP RoboHack wo...@robohack.ca Planix, Inc. wo...@planix.com Secrets of the Weird wo...@weird.com Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Cyrus IMAP mailboxes with LDAP
On 07/03/2009 07:55 AM, Evgeniy Arbatov wrote: I am looking for a way to store mailbox quotas and ACLs for Cyrus IMAP in LDAP. Is there a ready made solution for this purpose? If not, how can it be possibly done? Thank you! Attached is a tar file with the tools we use for exactly this purpose. The files are: * cyrus_get_quota.pl: a perl script to generate an LDIF file suitable for import into an LDAP directory with the current user quotas from Cyrus. This is to bootstrap the directory. You must already have the appropriate schema in place. * cyrus_ldap_quota.pl: a perl script to be run periodically from cron to search the directory for modified quotas and push those into cyrus. * cyrus-utils.conf: a configuration file for the above scripts. The schema used is the Srivastava Draft described here: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-srivastava-ldap-mail-00.txt You can download the schema here: http://www.netfrag.org/webnews/article.php?id=89group=nfo.links.computing The code is well documented, but feel free to ask if you have any questions. Best regards, -nic -- Nic Bernstein n...@onlight.com Onlight llc. www.onlight.com 219 N. Milwaukee St., Ste. 2A v. 414.272.4477 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202 f. 414.290.0335 cyrus-ldap-quota.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
At Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:00:20 +0100, Ian Eiloart i...@sussex.ac.uk wrote: Subject: Re: Automatically moving marked mails? Outlook users here don't like the fact that some of their MUA functionality is greyed out. I suppose that's evidence of part of the problem -- what's greyed out is (IIUC) actually _not_ MUA functionality! There's pressure here to move to Exchange because it supports Outlook better. Take away Outlook in effect by giving them better and different open source and open standards tools and that pressure is sure to go away. Part of that might best be done by getting rid of the underlying M$ platform on the desktop too of course! Seriously -- moving desktops from M$ to something else that's free and easy to run (both administratively and for users) is definitely a strategy to think about. Many have already made the move to good success and the WWW is full of their stories. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098VE3TCP RoboHack wo...@robohack.ca Planix, Inc. wo...@planix.com Secrets of the Weird wo...@weird.com Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Upgrade and Migration
Ben Carter wrote: If you use rsync, you have to stop everything until that finishes, possibly reconstruct all mailboxes, maybe fix some other things before giving people their mail functionality back and allowing mail delivery to resume. That's just silly. If you're going to use rsync to migrate data, you do at least one rsync while the source data is live. More than one if the initial sync takes a long time. Then you go offline, do a final sync (which should be very fast), and bring the new data store online. You have to do the _exact_ same thing with imapsync, unless you want to lose email. Also, the ACL format in the mailboxes file might be different between these 2 Cyrus versions. Might be, but I don't think it is. If you use the protocol to move the data, you don't have to worry about any data structure differences etc. You also can re-arrange your partitions and so on. Plus it re-calculates all quota usage as imapsync APPENDs the messages during the migration. All true, except to the best of my knowledge none of this (except repartitioning, which the OP didn't mention) matters for cyrus imapd - it will Just Work(tm) on your old data store. The only exceptions are database format changes (if you use bdb and you've revved the library version, for example), and sieve compiled bytecode. And why do you care about quota re-calculation? The existing quota data should be correct. -- Carson Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
