RE: Does anyone allow unlimited or extremely large quotas?
Our biggest currently is about 30GB I think. I think the issue you will encounter first is clients will start to fall down when folders exceed a 'reasonable' number of messages. Common IMAP clients I've seen start to exhibit severe performance issues beyond a few hundred thousand messages. On a 32 bit architecture: we had one folder with over a million messages which was causing processes to run out of virtual memory trying to map the cache file in. This wouldn't be a problem with a 64 bit userland. very impressive to have so much messages in one folder therefor in one partition!. But with so many messages in one folder, I think that cyrus.index and even more cyrus.cache are huge. Is mmap still efficient ? map a gigabit file should cost a lot of I/O and a relatively long reponse time to just access the records of the most recent emails. Is it time to break the design of one cyrus.index and cyrus.cache per folder by something more scalable ? Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE : competition
We wanted to use it for the user_deny database so we could insert a row into one database table that every host has access to. This way we didn't need to come up with a way to update the local user_deny across each frontend server. Such database provides the same benefit to the tlscache DB. Our frontend servers share a Mysql DB (HEAP) to cache TLS Also, we were interested in testing SQLite for things like tls_sessions.db and deliver.db because we were tired of BDB breaking our service. Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE: competition
where does Cyrus IMAPd stand today? When I was starting to think about moving to a open source mail system (migrating away from Lotus Domino btw.), there ware Cyrus IMAPd, Courier and UW-IMAP I think. Cyrus was the only full flavored IMAP server with active development. We were going the 2.2. path, while 2.3 seemed to fresh. So there was development. On the other side there were still many people complaining about Cyrus being too complex and too unstable with all the BDB fiddlings. Then dovecot emerged and quickly evolved. I don't know why, I begin to be tired from this dovecot is much more besser, you HAVE TO USE IT, why don't you migrate, ... ...? For me, this is a typical open source crowd behaviour. If one product tends to have better results, change immediately on the faster running train (which is believed to run faster) and to dump the reliable solution immediately, beginning to do advocacy in all forums, newsgroups and discussion groups to tell people that the new product is even better than sliced bread. Personally I like the competition, it encourage the continuous improvement of open source software. Dovecot has some good ideas or design solutions (see this rackspace document about Dovecot. It indicates that Apple did the switch from Cyrus to Dovecot http://www.dovecot.org/talks/macsysadmin-2009-09-16.pdf ) We run Cyrus for years and are happy with it. We host nearly 30 million mailboxes on our biggest platform. But begin to have mailboxes with hundreds of thousands of emails and it becomes difficult to balance the storage. I don't know what is really sharding in dovecot, but I would like to have a virtual storage in Cyrus (emails localized in an IMAP folder stored on several storage nodes). Sébastien Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE: Using SQL database to store mailboxes. deliverdb and etc ...
- Its possible to convert a exist installation to use SQL ? ( How ? How can i create the necessary tables and import from a skiplist database ? ) use cyr_dbtool to dump mboxlist and awk to prepare the import. Use mysqlimport to load in mysql, don't forget to set an appropriate field separator. - Its is compatible with Aggregation ( Murder ) ? No it isn't. We will provide a patch to rewrite SQL results depending of BEs and FEs. May be is it possible to do the job with a mysql proxy ? - I can share the same database with frontends, backends and mupdate ? Sébastien Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE: A beginner question about Murder
So we use about ten common Intel based servers for BEs (sized to support loss of 2/3 servers) and store data on NAS. Users are active and filer is about tens of thousand nfsop/s at the busy hour. About 10% to 20% of the users connect at least one time a day, globally 4 million connections per day. These are quite massive figures -- I'm thoroughly impressed. I am assuming that your back-ends experience 50,000-100,000 concurrent IMAP connections during certain parts of the day. This means that each BE takes 5,000-10,000 parallel connections. Can an ordinary Intel server handle such loads? What's the CPU and RAM of each? We don't have to handle such load. Most of end-users connect on pop3d (we provide a pop3 optimizer to reduce I/O, see http://www.mail-archive.com/cyrus-de...@lists.andrew.cmu.edu/msg01194.html) , others connect on the webmail (our webmail uses disconnected imapd sessions and is optimized thanks to Cyrus statuscache db). Also, how many NAS servers/appliances are being used? I would have thought that something like NFS would be too slow for such heavy IO loads, but evidently I'm wrong. One huge is enough and cheaper than a SAN. Also we have very experienced system admins to tune the filer ! Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE: A beginner question about Murder
Hi, we use a modified traditional murder, i.e. without murder daemon, to host more than 2 million mailboxes (dozen million entries in mboxlist with folders) We started to host 200.000 mailboxes on the traditional murder, configured with berkeley as cyrusdb backend due to lot of corruptions with default skiplist format (cyrus 2.3.9). However we had a lot of locks and contentions with berkeleydb, so we migrated later to cyrus 2.3.13 on a skiplist backend. Unfortunately the more we hosted mailboxes the more we had production issues. Indeed database resync is not incremental and servers restart were increasingly longer. Moreover we had instability with skiplist backend around 7.8 million entries and failed to reach 8 million entries. Finally we chose to develop a customized mysql backend. Front-ends and back-ends are all connected to the same DB but SQL results are rewritten with plugins to make them happy (return mailbox type 1 for proxy en mailbox type 0 for backend). Now there is no more latency or issue and mysql allows us to host more several dozens million of entries. So, we are totally murderless. FEs are scalable thanks to mysql replication and BEs are almost high available (our mysql failover is read-only and don't permit acl or folder management, but it is acceptable for us). We developed our owns mysql backend and we can share the source code if someone is interested (perhaps need some clean-up and code rewrite to adapt to the official sql backend) Sébastien -Message d'origine- De : info-cyrus-bounces+sebastien.michel=atosorigin@lists.andrew.cmu.edu [mailto:info-cyrus-bounces+sebastien.michel=atosorigin@lists.andrew.cmu.edu] De la part de Wesley Craig Envoyé : jeudi 9 septembre 2010 20:16 À : Andrew Morgan Cc : Shuvam Misra; info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu Objet : Re: A beginner question about Murder On 08 Sep 2010, at 16:41, Andrew Morgan wrote: Unfortunately, I've never setup a unified Murder, so I don't fully understand what the advantages and disadvantages of it compared to a traditional Murder. Maybe someone else can jump in here with their experiences. The main advantage is that BEs can proxy for other BEs, no FEs are required. In m observation, the FEs are typically CPU bound, while the BEs are typically IO bound. Since the BEs have an excess of CPU, it makes some sense to combine the two roles. Other than the bugs one finds in new code, unified is logically superior to traditional and in the long run traditional should be retired. In the future, I'd like to add unified replication, masterless murder, and auto failover. In my ideal minimum system, there are two machines, replicating to each other, providing high availability, proxying, etc. :wes Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
RE: A beginner question about Murder
Hi, yes I can share some little details. So we use about ten common Intel based servers for BEs (sized to support loss of 2/3 servers) and store data on NAS. Users are active and filer is about tens of thousand nfsop/s at the busy hour. About 10% to 20% of the users connect at least one time a day, globally 4 million connections per day. Sébastien -Message d'origine- De : info-cyrus-bounces+sebastien.michel=atosorigin@lists.andrew.cmu.edu [mailto:info-cyrus-bounces+sebastien.michel=atosorigin@lists.andrew.cmu.edu] De la part de Shuvam Misra Envoyé : jeudi 16 septembre 2010 10:48 À : info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu Objet : RE: A beginner question about Murder Dear Michel, we use a modified traditional murder, i.e. without murder daemon, to host more than 2 million mailboxes (dozen million entries in mboxlist with folders) Wow, that's some figure. Care to share some details with the list? What kind of hardware (both for servers and storage), what performance observations, etc? How many of these 2 million mailboxes see at least one login a day? Shuvam Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/ Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et réservés à l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut également être protégé par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immédiatement l'expéditeur et de le détruire. L'intégrité du message ne pouvant être assurée sur Internet, la responsabilité du groupe Atos Origin ne pourra être recherchée quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expéditeur ne donne aucune garantie à cet égard et sa responsabilité ne saurait être recherchée pour tout dommage résultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Atos Origin group liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted. Cyrus Home Page: http://www.cyrusimap.org/ List Archives/Info: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/
