Re: RE: Importing Mails without to header
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:31:27 -0500 Larry Rosenbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I would say that the former is not actually valid, though the syntax looks correct. RFC2822 section 3.6.3 says that To:, Cc: and Bcc: must contain at least one address. Not exactly. Bcc: can be empty (note that the syntax line in 3.6.3 is slightly different; it allows either address-list or CFWS). Also, To: and Cc: must contain an address-list, but this requirement can be satisfied by an empty group construct, as in the first example above. (In a group construct, the mailbox-list is optional.) None of the three is required, so if there is to be no recipient address in the header, the To: and Cc: lines should be absent. (If I remember correctly, RFC822 did require either To: or Cc: to be present.) It requires either To:, Cc:, or Bcc: to be present. If there is no recipient in the header, the message can have either an empty Bcc: or a To: with an empty group construct. I don't think this changed with RFC2822, but I can't find anything in the document that indicates that a destination field is required. I do not dispute that an empty group is syntactically correct, but section 3.6.3 actually says one or more addresses (either mailbox or group syntax). Note the first part: one or more addresses. An empty group does not satisfy this requirement because it contains no address. RFC822 made it explicit in section 4.1 that there had to be at least one destination field in the message. (Destination fields are To:, Cc:, Bcc: and their 'Resent-' versions.) That is not in RFC2822. Phil. --- Phil Chambers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) University of Exeter Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
--On 15 February 2008 17:18:26 + Phil Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I would say that the former is not actually valid, though the syntax looks correct. RFC2822 section 3.6.3 says that To:, Cc: and Bcc: must contain at least one address. Formally, it says: to = To: address-list CRLF And, section 3.4 says: address = mailbox / group and group = display-name : [mailbox-list / CFWS] ; So, To: undisclosed recipients :; does match the formal specification. There's also an example of such a Cc: header in A.1.3 The above does not contain an address. It does, in the sense that an address is defined in section 3.4. It's not required, but it is useful for the recipient to get a clue that the other recipients are explicitly undisclosed. It's also useful to include a more descriptive display-name in some cases: for example, if a university sends a message to all students, it might want to use the headers To: all students:; in an effort to avoid a flurry of redundant forwarding activity. None of the three is required, so if there is to be no recipient address in the header, the To: and Cc: lines should be absent. (If I remember correctly, RFC822 did require either To: or Cc: to be present.) Phil. --- Phil Chambers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) University of Exeter -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
--On 14 February 2008 11:12:02 -0500 Joseph Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Situation: an old user has a mail in his account, that was sent _only_ to bcc: People, so in to: you will only find undisclosed recipients. Check what is really in the message. Some mail programs display the null address in modified form. This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients Would you believe, that Apple Mail (Apple's default mail client) creates headers like this: To: undisclosed recipients : ; This despite the fact that I reported the bug four years ago, and informed them of the correct form. It was marked as a duplicate, so someone else must have made the same bug report. And, they use cyrus mailstore in their server product! To be fair, they have addressed the bug twice - but each time they've made it worse. There was originally a work around (give the group a name that is valid in headers), but then they broke that workaround. -- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148 Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:12:02 -0500 Joseph Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Situation: an old user has a mail in his account, that was sent _only_ to bcc: People, so in to: you will only find undisclosed recipients. Check what is really in the message. Some mail programs display the null address in modified form. This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I would say that the former is not actually valid, though the syntax looks correct. RFC2822 section 3.6.3 says that To:, Cc: and Bcc: must contain at least one address. The above does not contain an address. None of the three is required, so if there is to be no recipient address in the header, the To: and Cc: lines should be absent. (If I remember correctly, RFC822 did require either To: or Cc: to be present.) Phil. --- Phil Chambers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) University of Exeter Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
RE: Importing Mails without to header
This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I would say that the former is not actually valid, though the syntax looks correct. RFC2822 section 3.6.3 says that To:, Cc: and Bcc: must contain at least one address. Not exactly. Bcc: can be empty (note that the syntax line in 3.6.3 is slightly different; it allows either address-list or CFWS). Also, To: and Cc: must contain an address-list, but this requirement can be satisfied by an empty group construct, as in the first example above. (In a group construct, the mailbox-list is optional.) None of the three is required, so if there is to be no recipient address in the header, the To: and Cc: lines should be absent. (If I remember correctly, RFC822 did require either To: or Cc: to be present.) It requires either To:, Cc:, or Bcc: to be present. If there is no recipient in the header, the message can have either an empty Bcc: or a To: with an empty group construct. I don't think this changed with RFC2822, but I can't find anything in the document that indicates that a destination field is required. Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
--On Friday, February 15, 2008 5:18 PM + Phil Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I would say that the former is not actually valid, though the syntax looks correct. RFC2822 section 3.6.3 says that To:, Cc: and Bcc: must contain at least one address. The above does not contain an address. But this IS an address by definition. RFC 2822 even shows it in an example, namely the CC address in section A.1.3. Sec 3.4 says, address = mailbox / group group = display-name : [mailbox-list / CFWS] ; [CFWS] Because the list of mailboxes can be empty, using the group construct is also a simple way to communicate to recipients that the message was sent to one or more named sets of recipients, without actually providing the individual mailbox address for each of those recipients. Joseph Brennan Lead Email Systems Engineer Columbia University Information Technology Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
Hi, we had similar problems importing e-mails via IMAP from an old UW-IMAP System. We found that the to: undisclosed recipients was not the problem, but lines beginnig with From or Headerlines with an linbreake. We removed/repaired the corroup heades in the old Mailboxes Telemitrie logging was very usefull to find the invalid headers in large mailboxes. Quoting Michael Polenske [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, we are in the middle of a migration of an old mailserver, and during mailimport from old system we can see a problem. Situation: an old user has a mail in his account, that was sent _only_ to bcc: People, so in to: you will only find undisclosed recipients. When we now try to import these mails into a cyrus imap folder we get a message that an invalid header was detected. Any idea how to tell cyrus (2.2.12) to be less rigorous about such headers ? Cheerio, Michael -- Michael Polenske System Analyst High Performance Computing Department NEC Deutschland GmbH Hansaallee 101, D-40549 Duesseldorf, Germany Tel: +49 211 53 69 145 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: +49 211 53 69 199 http://www.nec.de AIM: polenskeHPCE GPG / PGP-Key available NEC Deutschland GmbH, Hansaallee 101, D-40549 Duesseldorf Geschäftsführer: Makoto Tsukakoshi Handelsregister Duesseldorf, HRB 57941 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Duesseldorf, WEEE-Reg. Nr. DE42479769 Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html M.Menge Tel.: (49) 7071/29-70316 Universitaet Tuebingen Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912 Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Waechterstrasse 76 72074 Tuebingen smime.p7s Description: S/MIME krytographische Unterschrift Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
Hi Joseph, the worst information is that we have not really a possibility to change the mail that should be migrated. We do a migration from Lotus Notes, and because we were not able to find tools for migrations mails from Notes to Imap (imap on Notes is not switched on) we use a tool that convertes Lotes Data to Outlook .pst data, wich can me moved via a Outlook Client into our mailserver (in german we say from behind through the eyes). So if there is a possibility to tell cyrus to be more flexible I aprecciate all hints in this direction :) Best regards, Michael Am Donnerstag 14 Februar 2008 schrieb Joseph Brennan: Situation: an old user has a mail in his account, that was sent _only_ to bcc: People, so in to: you will only find undisclosed recipients. Check what is really in the message. Some mail programs display the null address in modified form. This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I hope Cyrus is complaining only about the latter. When we now try to import these mails into a cyrus imap folder we get a message that an invalid header was detected. When we migrated to Cyrus we wrote a preprocessor perl script that rewrote certain header lines to make them standard. The rewritten mailbox was output to a staging area, and that's what we moved. This approach might work for you. Joseph Brennan Lead Email Systems Engineer Columbia University Information Technology Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html -- Michael Polenske System Analyst High Performance Computing Department NEC Deutschland GmbH Hansaallee 101, D-40549 Duesseldorf, Germany Tel: +49 211 53 69 145 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: +49 211 53 69 199 http://www.nec.de AIM: polenskeHPCE GPG / PGP-Key available NEC Deutschland GmbH, Hansaallee 101, D-40549 Duesseldorf Geschäftsführer: Makoto Tsukakoshi Handelsregister Duesseldorf, HRB 57941 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Duesseldorf, WEEE-Reg. Nr. DE42479769 Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
Re: Importing Mails without to header
Situation: an old user has a mail in his account, that was sent _only_ to bcc: People, so in to: you will only find undisclosed recipients. Check what is really in the message. Some mail programs display the null address in modified form. This is valid: To: undisclosed recipients :; This is not: To: undisclosed recipients I hope Cyrus is complaining only about the latter. When we now try to import these mails into a cyrus imap folder we get a message that an invalid header was detected. When we migrated to Cyrus we wrote a preprocessor perl script that rewrote certain header lines to make them standard. The rewritten mailbox was output to a staging area, and that's what we moved. This approach might work for you. Joseph Brennan Lead Email Systems Engineer Columbia University Information Technology Cyrus Home Page: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/ Cyrus Wiki/FAQ: http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/twiki List Archives/Info: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/mailing-list.html
