Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project
Il 29/08/2014 17:16, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com To: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com Cc: infra infra@ovirt.org, de...@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:43:44 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com Cc: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com, de...@ovirt.org, infra infra@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 8:05:58 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 28/08/2014 21:00, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:03:14 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 26/08/2014 09:38, Tomas Jelinek ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com To: Greg Sheremeta gsher...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:17:20 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Are we talking about using node as a development/test/packaging(minify etc ) tool or having a runtime backend (site) on top of node? It is only devel environment (e.g. build dependency), not runtime. If it's build dependency it's not just devel environment. Right, I messed up my comment above, sorry. Node.js can be (and typically is) used as both devel build dependency for JavaScript projects. We must ensure that all required build dependencies are available and properly packaged for all supported distributions. Yes, fully agreed. Fedora already has some packages we could use, for example: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15154 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15356 However, there's one complication (as Greg mentioned before): npm (Node package manager) resolves Node-specific packages (esentially JavaScript artifacts) via HTTP access, so we'd need some infra to serve these, and for each such JS module: - either use existing package for that JS module, if one exists - or maintain package for that JS module on our own [*] [*] I understand that this is not what we want to do in general I would add - Ask supported distributions to provide needed rpms Well, that ^^ would be ideal. In other words, there would have to be some infra to support builds for JavaScript/Node.js projects, similar to existing infra to support builds for Java/Maven projects: - package for Node.js + npm - package for each JS module (likely problematic) - tool (existing Artifactory that serves Maven artifacts?) to serve JS modules via HTTP for npm to consume (maybe problematic) Adding infra for above In any case, we can proceed with developing oVirt.js without requiring Node.js as a build dependency. I see two possible solutions here: 1, avoid using build tools like Traceur (ES6 - ES5 transpiler) and UglifyJS (code compressor/obfuscator), just concatenate JS source files into resulting JS target file (either via command in Makefile or via some Maven plugin) PROS: no special build requirements CONS: can't use tools like Traceur 2, use build tools like Traceur and UglifyJS, commit resulting JS target file into source tree, maybe with git commit hook for this PROS: can use tools like Traceur CONS: storing target JS file in source tree 3, (?) Use something simpler to package for compressing / minimizing like http://yui.github.io/yuicompressor/ or any other tool like that at build time (nothing against Node.js at development time). YUI Compressor is written in Java, we could use it within our Java-based Engine build. It seems that YUI Compressor uses Rhino (JS engine written in Java) with some custom Rhino extensions/tweaks. I didn't find Fedora package for YUI Compressor, but I found this: http://davidb.github.io/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/ And luckily, this Maven plugin is also in JBoss Maven repo: https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/service/local/repositories/central/content/net/alchim31/maven/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/1.4.0/yuicompressor-maven-plugin-1.4.0.pom OK, now some bad news. According to this: http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2012/10/16/state-of-yui-compressor/ development on YUI Compressor continues through JavaScript (surprise!) project yUglify (it's based on UglifyJS which I proposed way above): https://github.com/yui/yuglify And, not surprisingly, yUglify is Node.js module. Here we go :) As everyone can see, all popular tools for JavaScript development are pretty much centered around Node.js, that is not coincidence. Avoiding Node.js for JavaScript
Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project
Il 28/08/2014 21:00, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:03:14 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 26/08/2014 09:38, Tomas Jelinek ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com To: Greg Sheremeta gsher...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:17:20 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Are we talking about using node as a development/test/packaging(minify etc ) tool or having a runtime backend (site) on top of node? It is only devel environment (e.g. build dependency), not runtime. If it's build dependency it's not just devel environment. Right, I messed up my comment above, sorry. Node.js can be (and typically is) used as both devel build dependency for JavaScript projects. We must ensure that all required build dependencies are available and properly packaged for all supported distributions. Yes, fully agreed. Fedora already has some packages we could use, for example: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15154 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15356 However, there's one complication (as Greg mentioned before): npm (Node package manager) resolves Node-specific packages (esentially JavaScript artifacts) via HTTP access, so we'd need some infra to serve these, and for each such JS module: - either use existing package for that JS module, if one exists - or maintain package for that JS module on our own [*] [*] I understand that this is not what we want to do in general I would add - Ask supported distributions to provide needed rpms In other words, there would have to be some infra to support builds for JavaScript/Node.js projects, similar to existing infra to support builds for Java/Maven projects: - package for Node.js + npm - package for each JS module (likely problematic) - tool (existing Artifactory that serves Maven artifacts?) to serve JS modules via HTTP for npm to consume (maybe problematic) Adding infra for above In any case, we can proceed with developing oVirt.js without requiring Node.js as a build dependency. I see two possible solutions here: 1, avoid using build tools like Traceur (ES6 - ES5 transpiler) and UglifyJS (code compressor/obfuscator), just concatenate JS source files into resulting JS target file (either via command in Makefile or via some Maven plugin) PROS: no special build requirements CONS: can't use tools like Traceur 2, use build tools like Traceur and UglifyJS, commit resulting JS target file into source tree, maybe with git commit hook for this PROS: can use tools like Traceur CONS: storing target JS file in source tree 3, (?) Use something simpler to package for compressing / minimizing like http://yui.github.io/yuicompressor/ or any other tool like that at build time (nothing against Node.js at development time). What do you think? Note that this might work for small projects in short term. If we agree that JavaScript is the common base technology for oVirt frontend, not having well-established build environment (such as Node.js) will make it very hard to develop and maintain bigger JavaScript projects in the long term. I'd just like to point out that one thing is the development of the ovirt.js itself which is not going to be a big project and I can imagine also using less ideal (slower) tools for it's development. A completely different story will be when (if) we decide to use ovirt.js to develop some parts of the webadmin/userportal in javascript instead of GWT (or even rewrite the whole FE to JS) which will be a big project (set of projects). If we want to be effective in that effort, we will need good tools. From my perspective I can't stress enough how important is the separation of ovirt UI part from the backend. I agree to everything Vojtech said about developing to the browser with java. Mooli. - Original Message - - Original Message - From: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com To: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:13:38 AM Subject: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Hi guys, last week, we had oVirt.js PoC session and I mentioned the possibility of using Node.js and related tools like npm to develop build oVirt.js project. I'd like to hear your opinion - what do you think about using Node.js in context of developing building JavaScript projects? (oVirt.js etc.) Obviously, I'm strongly biased towards Node.js because of its popularity and therefore availability of various tools (npm packages) for JavaScript, for example: grunt (task runner), jslint
Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project
- Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com Cc: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com, de...@ovirt.org, infra infra@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 8:05:58 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 28/08/2014 21:00, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:03:14 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 26/08/2014 09:38, Tomas Jelinek ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com To: Greg Sheremeta gsher...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:17:20 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Are we talking about using node as a development/test/packaging(minify etc ) tool or having a runtime backend (site) on top of node? It is only devel environment (e.g. build dependency), not runtime. If it's build dependency it's not just devel environment. Right, I messed up my comment above, sorry. Node.js can be (and typically is) used as both devel build dependency for JavaScript projects. We must ensure that all required build dependencies are available and properly packaged for all supported distributions. Yes, fully agreed. Fedora already has some packages we could use, for example: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15154 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15356 However, there's one complication (as Greg mentioned before): npm (Node package manager) resolves Node-specific packages (esentially JavaScript artifacts) via HTTP access, so we'd need some infra to serve these, and for each such JS module: - either use existing package for that JS module, if one exists - or maintain package for that JS module on our own [*] [*] I understand that this is not what we want to do in general I would add - Ask supported distributions to provide needed rpms Well, that ^^ would be ideal. In other words, there would have to be some infra to support builds for JavaScript/Node.js projects, similar to existing infra to support builds for Java/Maven projects: - package for Node.js + npm - package for each JS module (likely problematic) - tool (existing Artifactory that serves Maven artifacts?) to serve JS modules via HTTP for npm to consume (maybe problematic) Adding infra for above In any case, we can proceed with developing oVirt.js without requiring Node.js as a build dependency. I see two possible solutions here: 1, avoid using build tools like Traceur (ES6 - ES5 transpiler) and UglifyJS (code compressor/obfuscator), just concatenate JS source files into resulting JS target file (either via command in Makefile or via some Maven plugin) PROS: no special build requirements CONS: can't use tools like Traceur 2, use build tools like Traceur and UglifyJS, commit resulting JS target file into source tree, maybe with git commit hook for this PROS: can use tools like Traceur CONS: storing target JS file in source tree 3, (?) Use something simpler to package for compressing / minimizing like http://yui.github.io/yuicompressor/ or any other tool like that at build time (nothing against Node.js at development time). YUI Compressor is written in Java, we could use it within our Java-based Engine build. It seems that YUI Compressor uses Rhino (JS engine written in Java) with some custom Rhino extensions/tweaks. I didn't find Fedora package for YUI Compressor, but I found this: http://davidb.github.io/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/ And luckily, this Maven plugin is also in JBoss Maven repo: https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/service/local/repositories/central/content/net/alchim31/maven/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/1.4.0/yuicompressor-maven-plugin-1.4.0.pom OK, now some bad news. According to this: http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2012/10/16/state-of-yui-compressor/ development on YUI Compressor continues through JavaScript (surprise!) project yUglify (it's based on UglifyJS which I proposed way above): https://github.com/yui/yuglify And, not surprisingly, yUglify is Node.js module. Here we go :) As everyone can see, all popular tools for JavaScript development are pretty much centered around Node.js, that is not coincidence. Avoiding Node.js for JavaScript development complicates the whole development and build process (from developer's perspective). OK, now what we can do. I suggest to use wro4j (Java-based): https://code.google.com/p/wro4j/ wro4j uses Rhino to execute most of its processors
Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project
- Original Message - From: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com To: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com Cc: infra infra@ovirt.org, de...@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:43:44 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Vojtech Szocs vsz...@redhat.com Cc: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com, de...@ovirt.org, infra infra@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 8:05:58 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 28/08/2014 21:00, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Sandro Bonazzola sbona...@redhat.com To: Tomas Jelinek tjeli...@redhat.com, Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:03:14 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Il 26/08/2014 09:38, Tomas Jelinek ha scritto: - Original Message - From: Mooli Tayer mta...@redhat.com To: Greg Sheremeta gsher...@redhat.com Cc: de...@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:17:20 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project Are we talking about using node as a development/test/packaging(minify etc ) tool or having a runtime backend (site) on top of node? It is only devel environment (e.g. build dependency), not runtime. If it's build dependency it's not just devel environment. Right, I messed up my comment above, sorry. Node.js can be (and typically is) used as both devel build dependency for JavaScript projects. We must ensure that all required build dependencies are available and properly packaged for all supported distributions. Yes, fully agreed. Fedora already has some packages we could use, for example: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15154 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15356 However, there's one complication (as Greg mentioned before): npm (Node package manager) resolves Node-specific packages (esentially JavaScript artifacts) via HTTP access, so we'd need some infra to serve these, and for each such JS module: - either use existing package for that JS module, if one exists - or maintain package for that JS module on our own [*] [*] I understand that this is not what we want to do in general I would add - Ask supported distributions to provide needed rpms Well, that ^^ would be ideal. In other words, there would have to be some infra to support builds for JavaScript/Node.js projects, similar to existing infra to support builds for Java/Maven projects: - package for Node.js + npm - package for each JS module (likely problematic) - tool (existing Artifactory that serves Maven artifacts?) to serve JS modules via HTTP for npm to consume (maybe problematic) Adding infra for above In any case, we can proceed with developing oVirt.js without requiring Node.js as a build dependency. I see two possible solutions here: 1, avoid using build tools like Traceur (ES6 - ES5 transpiler) and UglifyJS (code compressor/obfuscator), just concatenate JS source files into resulting JS target file (either via command in Makefile or via some Maven plugin) PROS: no special build requirements CONS: can't use tools like Traceur 2, use build tools like Traceur and UglifyJS, commit resulting JS target file into source tree, maybe with git commit hook for this PROS: can use tools like Traceur CONS: storing target JS file in source tree 3, (?) Use something simpler to package for compressing / minimizing like http://yui.github.io/yuicompressor/ or any other tool like that at build time (nothing against Node.js at development time). YUI Compressor is written in Java, we could use it within our Java-based Engine build. It seems that YUI Compressor uses Rhino (JS engine written in Java) with some custom Rhino extensions/tweaks. I didn't find Fedora package for YUI Compressor, but I found this: http://davidb.github.io/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/ And luckily, this Maven plugin is also in JBoss Maven repo: https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/service/local/repositories/central/content/net/alchim31/maven/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/1.4.0/yuicompressor-maven-plugin-1.4.0.pom OK, now some bad news. According to this: http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2012/10/16/state-of-yui-compressor/ development on YUI Compressor continues through JavaScript (surprise!) project yUglify (it's based on UglifyJS which I proposed way above): https://github.com/yui/yuglify And, not surprisingly, yUglify is Node.js module. Here we go
