Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)

[brynn]

> (Btw. what do you think of helping with the translation by making sure
that all images get uploaded? When I copy-paste from the French book, I
get all the images, but they are just links to the original book, not
part of the one I'm editing. And it takes quite some time to rename the
files to something English,  upload, add a useful placeholder text and
then exchange the links. I'd prefer to spend that time on translating.)

Sure, if I'm just taking the images from one and putting into the other, I 
could 
do that.  I just didn't like the idea of making new screenshots, using my 
theme. 
Although, at least the images I've looked at so far, already have English names.

Hhmm  Hopefully Sylvain can answer the questions I asked about the work 
that 
has been done to date. (in a different message) 
(https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/35828296/)  Could I be 
looking at the wrong documents?  Besides different chapters, I'm seeing vastly 
different content between the French and the translated English.  It's not just 
translated, it appears to be entirely rewritten, and also using completely 
different images!

I might think I was mistakenly looking at the original Inkscape Floss Manual, 
except both of the ones I'm looking are on the fr subdomain.  Let's get this 
straightened out, so I'm working on the right documents.  So using "L'outil 
Sélecteur", which is Selection Tool, right?  To me, this page:

https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/select-tool/

is not just a translation of

https://fr.flossmanuals.net/inkscape/selector-tool-a/

I certainly don't mind editing the pages that are already translated, to put 
the 
same images from the French manual, but I'd have to make major text edits too. 
(Or we, or whomever.)

Surely one of the 2 I'm looking at is the wrong one?


Re: "silly idea"  Some comments.

-- Not so silly.
-- Since we already do have the technical style of manual, outdated though it 
may be, I would suggest getting the new one finished and published first.
-- Perhaps Tav would consider releasing the content of his current manual, to 
be 
used as a starting point for the technical one?
-- Likely certain people would be better suited for writing this more technical 
one.  I know for myself, I couldn't write it, no matter how hard I tried.  
Often 
I find myself writing in simple language, even when I know the reader doesn't 
need it simplified.  Must be in my DNA, haha.
-- I wonder if having 2 manuals would be confusing for users?  I think as long 
as the titles of the manuals makes it very clear, it would be ok.  Such as 
Introduction to Inkscape for the beginnners' manual or Technical Inkscape 
Manual 
for the other.  Something like that.  (And also make sure the URLs include the 
distinction, so searching isn't confusing either.)


> (btw. I have volunteered to set this up, seems you overlooked ;-) - for
customization, translation and version branches, I'd still have to learn
a bit, but it doesn't appear to be too hard).

No, I read it.  But since I was "voting" for the Booktype option, I didn't have 
any reason to make a comment about setting up the Sphinx option.

I sincerely hope I have a wrong manual that I'm looking at, and that we don't 
have a serious problem with the translation being not strictly a translation!

Somewhat random thought.  I guess both Floss Manuals and Booktypes can be 
themed 
or branded?  Perhaps at some time during this manual-translating and then 
writing process, the community can have a discussion about Inkscape branding? 
I'm not sure if we can say it's overdue, but I would suggest that the time has 
come  :-)

All best,
brynn

-Original Message- 
From: Maren Hachmann
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:07 PM
To: brynn ; C R ; Inkscape Devel List ; Inkscape-Docs
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? 
(targeting the moon)

@jazznico: Is there a way to transfer books between the French
flossmanuals site and the English one? I.e. would it be possible to
export and import a book? Or would it be possible to have a language
selection menu on flossmanualsfr instead, with English available for
selection? This would make it easier for our international editors to
deal with the interface.

Hi Brynn,

thanks for taking a closer look! (I'm so glad someone was able to take
the time for this.)

FLOSS is the abbreviation for 'Free/Libre Open Source Software'.
The websites are flossmanualsfr.net / flossmanuals.net respectively.
They allow for collaborative writing of manuals for FLOSS.

I fully understand the need for a WYSIWYG editor. The one from Booktype
is quite okay. Where it lacks is when you want to insert a file or image
- because you need to upload it first, then you need to find out that
the link to it that you need to enter in the insertion dialog is
'/static/filename.ext'. That's more difficult than it would need to be
(but you can use the same image file on different pages this way).

(Btw. what d

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] License for the new manual

[brynn]

Thanks Maren.  Sorry for replying twice.  After I sent the first, I realized it 
needed to be copied to Docs list.

Can you give link to the new English one?

Thanks,
brynn

-Original Message- 
From: Maren Hachmann
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 6:40 PM
To: inkscape-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] [Inkscape-docs] License for the new manual

I've just played around at flossmanuals.net a bit, and was surprised how
easy and quick it is to import the book there from the French site.

(I intended to just give it a try, but it worked so well, that I got
carried away starting to edit it...)

Elisa, can you give Mick the heads up that we've managed to do the
import ourselves already?

I'm working on importing the chapters from the French book, so we have
the files and the original texts readily available.
When that's done, I'll send a message to the list to invite editors.

Kind Regards,
Maren

Am 11.05.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Maren Hachmann:
> Great :)
>
> So let's keep our fingers crossed that it'll be possible to have an
> English interface for working on the book - and then we can call out for
> people to open up accounts.
>
> Kind Regards,
>  Maren
>
> Am 11.05.2017 um 21:05 schrieb C R:
>> Thanks for clarifying, Martin!
>> -C
>>
>> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:
>>> Hi Maren, Victor, CR,
>>>
>>> Yes, let's settle this. CC-BY 4.0
>>>
>>> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
>>>
>>> Shall be used for the inkscape manual.
>>>
>>> I believe there's a weighty enough consensus not to beat around the
>>> bush any more.
>>>
>>> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 01:18 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
 Sorry, I think I need to explain and ask one last question:

 I asked for CC-By, because that allows the licence to be changed when
 you make derivatives, and because it wasn't clear yet which licence
 we
 might want to use in the end, and because this wasn't my decision to
 make.

 Martin, you took it on you to count the votes. I think CC0 is out of
 the
 question by now. What is the current status?

 (Mc asked about CC-By, I think. I bet CR would prefer CC-By to CC-By-
 SA,
 from what I read.)

 Do people now just want to go with CC-By, either because they like it
 most, or to just 'be done' with it and start working? (I'd like to
 have
 some kind of final decision).
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>> inkscape-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>
>
>
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> inkscape-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>


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Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] License for the new manual

[Maren Hachmann]

Great :)

So let's keep our fingers crossed that it'll be possible to have an
English interface for working on the book - and then we can call out for
people to open up accounts.

Kind Regards,
 Maren

Am 11.05.2017 um 21:05 schrieb C R:
> Thanks for clarifying, Martin!
> -C
> 
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:
>> Hi Maren, Victor, CR,
>>
>> Yes, let's settle this. CC-BY 4.0
>>
>> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
>>
>> Shall be used for the inkscape manual.
>>
>> I believe there's a weighty enough consensus not to beat around the
>> bush any more.
>>
>> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>>
>> On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 01:18 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
>>> Sorry, I think I need to explain and ask one last question:
>>>
>>> I asked for CC-By, because that allows the licence to be changed when
>>> you make derivatives, and because it wasn't clear yet which licence
>>> we
>>> might want to use in the end, and because this wasn't my decision to
>>> make.
>>>
>>> Martin, you took it on you to count the votes. I think CC0 is out of
>>> the
>>> question by now. What is the current status?
>>>
>>> (Mc asked about CC-By, I think. I bet CR would prefer CC-By to CC-By-
>>> SA,
>>> from what I read.)
>>>
>>> Do people now just want to go with CC-By, either because they like it
>>> most, or to just 'be done' with it and start working? (I'd like to
>>> have
>>> some kind of final decision).
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> inkscape-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> 


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Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)

[Maren Hachmann]

Hi Elisa,

thank you very much for asking the flossmanuals.net manager!
Would you keep us updated on whether it works or not?

Kind Regards,
 Maren

Am 11.05.2017 um 16:09 schrieb Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra:
> Hello,
> 
> Mick Is the manager of floss manuals english.
> I ask him for the possibility of import the book.
> I give him the url, he is trying.
> 
> Regards,
> Elisa
> 
> 2017-05-11 1:07 GMT+02:00 Maren Hachmann  >:
> 
> @jazznico: Is there a way to transfer books between the French
> flossmanuals site and the English one? I.e. would it be possible to
> export and import a book? Or would it be possible to have a language
> selection menu on flossmanualsfr instead, with English available for
> selection? This would make it easier for our international editors to
> deal with the interface.
> 
> Hi Brynn,
> 
> thanks for taking a closer look! (I'm so glad someone was able to take
> the time for this.)
> 
> FLOSS is the abbreviation for 'Free/Libre Open Source Software'.
> The websites are flossmanualsfr.net  /
> flossmanuals.net  respectively.
> They allow for collaborative writing of manuals for FLOSS.
> 
> I fully understand the need for a WYSIWYG editor. The one from Booktype
> is quite okay. Where it lacks is when you want to insert a file or image
> - because you need to upload it first, then you need to find out that
> the link to it that you need to enter in the insertion dialog is
> '/static/filename.ext'. That's more difficult than it would need to be
> (but you can use the same image file on different pages this way).
> 
> (Btw. what do you think of helping with the translation by making sure
> that all images get uploaded? When I copy-paste from the French book, I
> get all the images, but they are just links to the original book, not
> part of the one I'm editing. And it takes quite some time to rename the
> files to something English,  upload, add a useful placeholder text and
> then exchange the links. I'd prefer to spend that time on translating.)
> 
> About the 'location', I've had this silly idea:
> 
> As a first step, we create/translate/update this introductory manual at
> flossmanuals (if possible at the English site, to make it easier for
> contributors). It's a great way for getting people started with
> Inkscape.
> 
> As a second step, or in parallel, we could also have a more
> glossary-like, more technical manual, that explains what each menu item
> /LPE/... does. This technical manual could also be used by developers to
> document their changes, and it could use the more technical style with
> Sphinx/reST/readthedocs. It could even start out simple, with keywords /
> lists, and be refined by people who don't like those ;-)
> 
> (btw. I have volunteered to set this up, seems you overlooked ;-) - for
> customization, translation and version branches, I'd still have to learn
> a bit, but it doesn't appear to be too hard).
> 
> The one issue I see with this split is that it would spread resources
> (us) a bit wide, maybe. But from the time when I started using Inkscape,
> I know that having a manual like the one Elisa wrote would have helped
> me a lot - I barely understood a word in Tav's manual.
> 
> Now, as an advanced user, I (claim I) know everything that Elisa
> explains, but Tav's more technical manual contains so much more info,
> which I'm now able to understand (and often have the urge to update).
> 
> So that's why I think that having two different manuals wouldn't be such
> a bad idea. The technical manual could be written by the more technical
> users and, hopefully, devs (when they change something).
> 
> Well, just an idea. Let me know if you think it's crap ;-)
> 
> Kind Regards,
>  Maren
> 
> Am 10.05.2017 um 07:47 schrieb brynn:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >I've tried to read up and study and understand the info which
> > Maren presented.  Because my understanding is extremely limited, I
> > hesitate to offer any comments at all.  But for whatever it might be
> > worth, here they arealong with a couple of questions.
> >
> >First, one of your last comments:
> >
> >> All of them would be FLOSS, have support for internal linking,
> allow to
> > insert images and allow editing via browser.
> >
> >I think you're using "FLOSS" as a generic umbrella term, as
> > opposed to the FLOSS Manuals, right?  Because a couple of the Cons are
> > lack of wysiwyg, which I've had the understanding Floss Manuals has
> > (although I haven't seen it yet).  So you don't mean that Floss
> Manuals
> > can be used for the writing, for all of them, and then exported out or
> > transfered elsewhere for pu

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] License for the new manual

[Martin Owens]

Hi Maren, Victor, CR,

Yes, let's settle this. CC-BY 4.0

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Shall be used for the inkscape manual.

I believe there's a weighty enough consensus not to beat around the
bush any more.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 01:18 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote:
> Sorry, I think I need to explain and ask one last question:
> 
> I asked for CC-By, because that allows the licence to be changed when
> you make derivatives, and because it wasn't clear yet which licence
> we
> might want to use in the end, and because this wasn't my decision to
> make.
> 
> Martin, you took it on you to count the votes. I think CC0 is out of
> the
> question by now. What is the current status?
> 
> (Mc asked about CC-By, I think. I bet CR would prefer CC-By to CC-By-
> SA,
> from what I read.)
> 
> Do people now just want to go with CC-By, either because they like it
> most, or to just 'be done' with it and start working? (I'd like to
> have
> some kind of final decision).

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Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)

[Elisa Godoy de Castro Guerra]

Hello,

Mick Is the manager of floss manuals english.
I ask him for the possibility of import the book.
I give him the url, he is trying.

Regards,
Elisa

2017-05-11 1:07 GMT+02:00 Maren Hachmann :

> @jazznico: Is there a way to transfer books between the French
> flossmanuals site and the English one? I.e. would it be possible to
> export and import a book? Or would it be possible to have a language
> selection menu on flossmanualsfr instead, with English available for
> selection? This would make it easier for our international editors to
> deal with the interface.
>
> Hi Brynn,
>
> thanks for taking a closer look! (I'm so glad someone was able to take
> the time for this.)
>
> FLOSS is the abbreviation for 'Free/Libre Open Source Software'.
> The websites are flossmanualsfr.net / flossmanuals.net respectively.
> They allow for collaborative writing of manuals for FLOSS.
>
> I fully understand the need for a WYSIWYG editor. The one from Booktype
> is quite okay. Where it lacks is when you want to insert a file or image
> - because you need to upload it first, then you need to find out that
> the link to it that you need to enter in the insertion dialog is
> '/static/filename.ext'. That's more difficult than it would need to be
> (but you can use the same image file on different pages this way).
>
> (Btw. what do you think of helping with the translation by making sure
> that all images get uploaded? When I copy-paste from the French book, I
> get all the images, but they are just links to the original book, not
> part of the one I'm editing. And it takes quite some time to rename the
> files to something English,  upload, add a useful placeholder text and
> then exchange the links. I'd prefer to spend that time on translating.)
>
> About the 'location', I've had this silly idea:
>
> As a first step, we create/translate/update this introductory manual at
> flossmanuals (if possible at the English site, to make it easier for
> contributors). It's a great way for getting people started with Inkscape.
>
> As a second step, or in parallel, we could also have a more
> glossary-like, more technical manual, that explains what each menu item
> /LPE/... does. This technical manual could also be used by developers to
> document their changes, and it could use the more technical style with
> Sphinx/reST/readthedocs. It could even start out simple, with keywords /
> lists, and be refined by people who don't like those ;-)
>
> (btw. I have volunteered to set this up, seems you overlooked ;-) - for
> customization, translation and version branches, I'd still have to learn
> a bit, but it doesn't appear to be too hard).
>
> The one issue I see with this split is that it would spread resources
> (us) a bit wide, maybe. But from the time when I started using Inkscape,
> I know that having a manual like the one Elisa wrote would have helped
> me a lot - I barely understood a word in Tav's manual.
>
> Now, as an advanced user, I (claim I) know everything that Elisa
> explains, but Tav's more technical manual contains so much more info,
> which I'm now able to understand (and often have the urge to update).
>
> So that's why I think that having two different manuals wouldn't be such
> a bad idea. The technical manual could be written by the more technical
> users and, hopefully, devs (when they change something).
>
> Well, just an idea. Let me know if you think it's crap ;-)
>
> Kind Regards,
>  Maren
>
> Am 10.05.2017 um 07:47 schrieb brynn:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >I've tried to read up and study and understand the info which
> > Maren presented.  Because my understanding is extremely limited, I
> > hesitate to offer any comments at all.  But for whatever it might be
> > worth, here they arealong with a couple of questions.
> >
> >First, one of your last comments:
> >
> >> All of them would be FLOSS, have support for internal linking, allow to
> > insert images and allow editing via browser.
> >
> >I think you're using "FLOSS" as a generic umbrella term, as
> > opposed to the FLOSS Manuals, right?  Because a couple of the Cons are
> > lack of wysiwyg, which I've had the understanding Floss Manuals has
> > (although I haven't seen it yet).  So you don't mean that Floss Manuals
> > can be used for the writing, for all of them, and then exported out or
> > transfered elsewhere for publishing, right?
> >
> > Gitlab Wiki + X
> > It seems to me like the lack of a wysiwyg editor is the most limiting
> > factor (at least for as much as I understand). I'm just thinking of
> > people who might be interested in joining the manual or documentation
> > team.  This is a good non-coding opportunity for non-programmers, to
> > contribute to the project.  They might be less likely to participate if
> > they had to learn, even a simple language like Markdown, or whatever you
> > call the code that wikis use.
> >
> > Gitlab Editor + Sphinx / readthedocs
> >
> >> - learning curve for admin (theming, plugins,...)
> >
>