Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, , Digest, Vol 82, , Issue 5)

2018-07-31 Thread Roland Hughes 



On 07/31/2018 07:10 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:

Maybe you should have tried another Linux distribution? I've never had a 
problem loading any of the QtCreators on our Ubuntu boxes (starting with 14.04 
up and through 18.04).
Well you should have since everybody else did and the Ubuntu forums were 
awash with requests for work arounds. I'm guessing it's because you 
really use Windows for development and cross compile elsewhere.


While the jury is still out if QML is a success or not I think that attempting to give 
developers quicker ways to build applications is something that should be pursued. What 
is wrong with wanting a more efficient way to create our applications. What is wrong with 
wanting to make our applications appeal to the "younger crowd" by using newer 
technologies. Just because something failed back then does not mean that iterating on 
that idea (RAD) is bound to failure again. As a community of developers we should always 
be pushing ahead with technologies to make our lives easier. Sometimes those technologies 
work and sometimes they don't. As long as we learn from the mistakes and keep forging 
ahead is what matters.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/unknown_133991

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting 
different results.


Nobody learns from the mistakes. They just hear "faster application 
development" and follow all the other leemings off the cliff.


Faster, Better, Cheaper - pick any two.

RAD didn't just fail "back then." RAD has failed EACH AND EVER TIME it 
has been re-introduced. The latest excuse for hacking on the fly without 
a plan is AGILE. The latest "tool" for it is QML.


Making horribly bad choices appears to be genetically fundamental to 
management.

Don't believe me?

Read up on INTEL's SEGMENT:OFFSET memory addressing in the original x86 
chips. Fine fine decision there, despite all of the other chips on the 
market which didn't do it because it was a stupid idea.


After IBM made a poor decision choosing x86, they made an idiotic 
decision to reserve the 384K above 640K for add-in cards/adapters rather 
than just skipping the first 384K at boot. Adding this insult to the 
injury of SEGMENT:OFFSET forced us to have C/C++ compilers which 
utilized Compact/Small/Medium/Large memory models. Linking object 
modules compiled under different memory models was a catastrophe not all 
compilers stopped.


Read up on all of the different DOS memory extenders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_extender

If you are too young to have used them, also read up on overlay linkers 
trying to page stuff in and out.

https://www.pcorner.com/list/DBASE/BLIDEM.ZIP/BLINKER.DOC/

The fault with RAD, the fault with AGILE and even the fault with X-treme 
programming along with every other term for that throughout the decade, 
is that they are all marketing fraud for hacking on the fly. The RAD 
type tool sets attempt to bring non-programmers into the programming 
universe to force down labor costs. This also forces down the quality of 
delivered systems.


For any tiny system which doesn't really matter, one where a single 
person really can see each and every aspect of it in their head ALL AT 
ONCE, you can hack on the fly. The real trouble is, nobody is willing to 
admit just how small a system that really is. That's why I get multiple 
phone calls and emails each day from pimps pitching contracts to come in 
and salvage a project which was QML and AGILE and now in an absolute 
destitute state. They've no learned the hard way a 50% solution can't be 
stretched to 100%


Guess what? They'll try the exact same thing on the next project.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting 
different results.




--
Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions
(630)-205-1593

http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
http://www.infiniteexposure.net
http://www.johnsmith-book.com
http://www.logikalblog.com
http://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
http://lesedi.us/
http://onedollarcontentstore.com

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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, , Issue 5)

2018-07-30 Thread André Pönitz 
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 09:51:22AM -0500, Roland Hughes wrote:
> When the virus known as QML was unleashed on the world,

Released in September 2010.

> the "teaser app" was  the Welcome screen in QtCreator.

First draft in November 2010,
submitted in June 2011,
release in September 2011.

Andre'

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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, , Issue 5)

2018-07-30 Thread Michael Jackson 
From: Interest  on 
behalf of Roland Hughes 
Organization: Logikal Solutions
Date: Monday, July 30, 2018 at 10:52 AM
To: Qt Interest 
Subject: Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 
82, , Issue 5)

When the virus known as QML was unleashed on the world, the "teaser app" was 
the Welcome screen in QtCreator. It had pretty much the exact same level of 
success as the PowerFailure teaser app. Actually, the PowerFailure teaser app 
worked better. On a large number of YABU distros, QtCreator wouldn't even load, 
just crashed. On others it would start but had other problems. In the YABU 
world, 


qtcreator -noload Welcome

Maybe you should have tried another Linux distribution? I've never had a 
problem loading any of the QtCreators on our Ubuntu boxes (starting with 14.04 
up and through 18.04).

While the jury is still out if QML is a success or not I think that attempting 
to give developers quicker ways to build applications is something that should 
be pursued. What is wrong with wanting a more efficient way to create our 
applications. What is wrong with wanting to make our applications appeal to the 
"younger crowd" by using newer technologies. Just because something failed back 
then does not mean that iterating on that idea (RAD) is bound to failure again. 
As a community of developers we should always be pushing ahead with 
technologies to make our lives easier. Sometimes those technologies work and 
sometimes they don't. As long as we learn from the mistakes and keep forging 
ahead is what matters.

--
Mike Jackson


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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, , Issue 5)

2018-07-30 Thread Roland Hughes 


On 07/17/2018 10:13 AM, Henry Skoglund wrote:

Hi, I just downloaded Qt Creator's sources and perused the welcome
plugin, try as I might I couldn't find any usage of qml, instead I found
lots of widgets like QStackedWidgets, QHBoxLayouts and QVBoxLayouts
being created by the welcome plugin.

I don't understand how not loading that welcome plugin would help in any
way with any qml problems?

Rgrds Henry

Hello Henry,

I'm still in writing mode so please allow me a few minutes to write 
something which should prove both informative and entertaining.


During the early 1990s "industry analysts" like Gartner were paid to 
market RAD as the next be-all-end-all IT trend. Microsoft was believed 
to be a large part of the funding behind this fraudulent marketing 
because they were desperately trying to shove weak x86 boxes running 
Windows into the data centers where real computers from IBM and DEC resided.


RAD (Rapid Applications Development)

It was all about desktop based tools, most of which were graphical, 
allowing developers with little skill and absolutely no Waterfall 
documentation or training to crank out these pretty little apps deemed 
"solutions" to business problems. Every one of these tools claimed they 
could then scale to the Enterprise level once the prototype was done and 
proper licenses purchased. Today this multi-billion dollar boondoggle is 
being recycled under the name AGILE.


I was doing an unrelated project for Quaker Oats when they had a RAD 
team just enamored with a product I will call PowerFailure to hide its 
true identity. The team was working on some wowsy system designed to 
impress the board or some such thing. Rumblings and grumblings from 
other parts of the company about this black hole where money was going 
in and nothing coming out forced the group to release a "teaser app." 
This teaser app was a company directory. Basically, similar to what 
Microsoft Outlook already provided. The teaser was rolled out to many if 
not all of the desktops. Where Outlook could start finding the person as 
you were typing, this "teaser app" took many minutes. Honestly, the 
payroll conversion project I was on which ran many months completed and 
the "teaser app" didn't get faster. Maybe they stopped working on it? I 
did hear some time later that the VP/Directory level person who brought 
the product in and the team under them were "allowed to seek 
opportunities elsewhere" about a year or so after my project completed.


When the virus known as QML was unleashed on the world, the "teaser app" 
was the Welcome screen in QtCreator. It had pretty much the exact same 
level of success as the PowerFailure teaser app. Actually, the 
PowerFailure teaser app worked better. On a large number of YABU 
distros, QtCreator wouldn't even load, just crashed. On others it would 
start but had other problems. In the YABU world,


qtcreator -noload Welcome

Got added to the YABU world Qt lore. It was how you got QtCreator to run 
again. Probably a large number of people still using that command line 
to launch QtCreator today. This piece of lore along with the others I 
included in this post.


http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/qtcreator-no-qmlscene-installed/

Have existed in the YABU world for years.

QML and it's "teaser app" have had the same outcome as PowerFailure.

"Allowed to seek opportunities elsewhere."

Most of us in the YABU world didn't know this. We still have all of our 
hard won QtCreator lore squirreled away and most of those thing still 
"fix" problems with it. Why didn't we know it? There was GREAT FANFARE 
when the QML Welcome screen was released. I saw no such fanfare about 
QML being taken into the woods and getting 2 behind the ear.


Because of the mental scarring caused by the Welcome screen in the YABU 
(Yet Another uBUntu) world, any time there is a startup issue, the first 
thing people will try is to not load the Welcome screen. We lived with 
years of this.


Most of the RAD tools have either disappeared or fallen off into small 
OpenSource groups. A few of them managed to get into CRUD (Create Read 
Update Delete) applications for internal ERP systems so you will see 
maintenance gigs from time to time, but you don't see commercial or 
large scale systems being written with these tools today. All of these 
tools knew a dirty little secret.


It's very easy to do CRUD.

All of these "tools" were a 70-80% "solution." Without a plan and 
without much skill, low wage workers could generate entry screens and 
reports in an afternoon . . . provided you don't want anything which 
isn't cookie cutter. Getting a few more percent of your "solution" 
requires an expensive amount of hacking. Usually it is unmaintainable 
hacking because if someone relaunches the generator portion your hacks 
are gone.


During the days of DOS there was a C source code generator trying to 
compete in the RAD world named Pro-C, not to be confused with Oracle 
Pro*C. It

Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-23 Thread Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer 
El lunes, 16 de julio de 2018 08:12:25 -03 Ulf Hermann escribió:
> This thread has gone so far south, we need to add some corrections ...
[snip] 
> So, it turns out I have another qmake (and qmlscene) in
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/ which are explicitly the right ones, and
> which I can invoke manually if I actually need them. Qt Creator autodetects
> those.

Mind you this is a debian-specific patch:




-- 
Dadme voto electrónico y con una terminal os haré presidente.
  el.machi

Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer
http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/


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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-16 Thread André Pönitz 
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:10:20AM -0500, Roland Hughes wrote:
> On 07/16/2018 11:10 AM, Ulf Hermann wrote:
> > And none of that has anything to do with qmlscene being installed or not, or
> > how Qt Creator deals with it. Also, the qmlscene utility and the QML 
> > language
> > are two rather different things. The welcome screen (used to) be written in
> > QML, but Qt Creator doesn't use qmlscene to run it. So, all of this rant is 
> > as
> > misplaced as it is unnecessary. The only thing that may be remotely relevant
> > is the comment about Ubuntu's testing practices, but the information we have
> > here is far from being conclusive on this being an actual problem. The 
> > author
> > should be sorry for wasting everybody's time.
> > 
> > best regards, Ulf Hermann
> The rant was not misplaced and I do not apologize. This issue has been 
> cropping
> up for many, many years. One of the primary work arounds to was to no load the
> welcome screen. In fact, I found the topic so important for newbs I created a
> blog post from this.
> 
> http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/qtcreator-no-qmlscene-installed/
> 
> You should apologize for wasting everyone's time not providing the 
> historically
> known work arounds.

Dear Mr President.

I herewith apologize for not properly informing you personally that the
Qt Creator Welcome plugin is currently not based on QML, and has not been
since release 4.3.0.

> Roland Hughes, President
> Logikal Solutions
> (630)-205-1593

Andre'
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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-16 Thread Henry Skoglund 
Hi, I just downloaded Qt Creator's sources and perused the welcome 
plugin, try as I might I couldn't find any usage of qml, instead I found 
lots of widgets like QStackedWidgets, QHBoxLayouts and QVBoxLayouts 
being created by the welcome plugin.


I don't understand how not loading that welcome plugin would help in any 
way with any qml problems?


Rgrds Henry


On 2018-07-16 18:10, Roland Hughes wrote:



On 07/16/2018 11:10 AM, Ulf Hermann wrote:

And none of that has anything to do with qmlscene being installed or not, or 
how Qt Creator deals with it. Also, the qmlscene utility and the QML language 
are two rather different things. The welcome screen (used to) be written in 
QML, but Qt Creator doesn't use qmlscene to run it. So, all of this rant is as 
misplaced as it is unnecessary. The only thing that may be remotely relevant is 
the comment about Ubuntu's testing practices, but the information we have here 
is far from being conclusive on this being an actual problem. The author should 
be sorry for wasting everybody's time.

best regards,
Ulf Hermann
The rant was not misplaced and I do not apologize. This issue has been 
cropping up for many, many years. One of the primary work arounds to was 
to no load the welcome screen. In fact, I found the topic so important 
for newbs I created a blog post from this.


http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/qtcreator-no-qmlscene-installed/

You should apologize for wasting everyone's time not providing the 
historically known work arounds.


--
Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions
(630)-205-1593

http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
http://www.infiniteexposure.net
http://www.johnsmith-book.com
http://www.logikalblog.com
http://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
http://lesedi.us/
http://onedollarcontentstore.com




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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest, Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-16 Thread Roland Hughes 



On 07/16/2018 11:10 AM, Ulf Hermann wrote:

And none of that has anything to do with qmlscene being installed or not, or 
how Qt Creator deals with it. Also, the qmlscene utility and the QML language 
are two rather different things. The welcome screen (used to) be written in 
QML, but Qt Creator doesn't use qmlscene to run it. So, all of this rant is as 
misplaced as it is unnecessary. The only thing that may be remotely relevant is 
the comment about Ubuntu's testing practices, but the information we have here 
is far from being conclusive on this being an actual problem. The author should 
be sorry for wasting everybody's time.

best regards,
Ulf Hermann
The rant was not misplaced and I do not apologize. This issue has been 
cropping up for many, many years. One of the primary work arounds to was 
to no load the welcome screen. In fact, I found the topic so important 
for newbs I created a blog post from this.


http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/qtcreator-no-qmlscene-installed/

You should apologize for wasting everyone's time not providing the 
historically known work arounds.


--
Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions
(630)-205-1593

http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
http://www.infiniteexposure.net
http://www.johnsmith-book.com
http://www.logikalblog.com
http://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
http://lesedi.us/
http://onedollarcontentstore.com

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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-16 Thread Thiago Macieira 
On Monday, 16 July 2018 04:12:25 PDT Ulf Hermann wrote:
> And none of that has anything to do with qmlscene being installed or not, or
> how Qt Creator deals with it. Also, the qmlscene utility and the QML
> language are two rather different things. The welcome screen (used to) be
> written in QML, but Qt Creator doesn't use qmlscene to run it. So, all of
> this rant is as misplaced as it is unnecessary. The only thing that may be
> remotely relevant is the comment about Ubuntu's testing practices, but the
> information we have here is far from being conclusive on this being an
> actual problem. The author should be sorry for wasting everybody's time.

And the list of Qt Creator plugins can be found in the GUI: Help > About 
Plugins.

-- 
Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
  Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center



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Re: [Interest] qmlscene install problems (was: Interest Digest, Vol 82, Issue 5)

2018-07-16 Thread Ulf Hermann 
This thread has gone so far south, we need to add some corrections ...

First things first: You probably don't need qmlscene. The only project type 
that currently needs qmlscene to be available is the "Qt Quick UI Prototype". 
Unless you are working with such projects, you can ignore the warning.

>>> I just installed Qt Creator 4.5.2 from kubuntu apt sources.
>>> It installed qmlscene + qt development files at the same time.
>>> I can see clearly there is a qmlscene executable right next to qmake in 
>>> the same directory: /usr/lib/qt5/bin
>>> How do I get rid of the "no qmlscene installed" warning?

This may not be the place where Qt Creator expects qmlscene on your system. For 
example, on my system I have a /usr/bin/qmlscene, which is not an actual 
qmlscene binary, but belongs to a package called "qtchooser". qtchooser wraps 
different Qt versions on demand. The same holds for qmake itself, actually. On 
my system, just calling /usr/bin/qmake results in an error, because qtchooser 
defaults to Qt4 and I purposely don't have a Qt4 environment installed. Qt 
Creator will actually query the qmake that belongs to your Qt for the binary 
locations, and it has some heuristics on which one that might be. For me that 
results in something like:

# /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake -query
[...]
QT_INSTALL_BINS:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin
[...]

Qt Creator will list the results of that query in the Qt Version options in 
Build & Run settings (press "Details" there). You can check if there is a 
qmlscene in the path given there, and if not, search the package database for 
one.

So, it turns out I have another qmake (and qmlscene) in 
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/ which are explicitly the right ones, and 
which I can invoke manually if I actually need them. Qt Creator autodetects 
those. I could also configure qtchooser to use them.

>> I've been using Creator from distro repos for a while in the past, and 
>> quite often this would result in some weirdness or breakage. I recommend 
>> installing Creator using the online installer instead.

You can just install the package that contains the right qmlscene binary for 
your Qt version. Debian has a separate package called "qmlscene". I don't know 
how that works on Ubuntu. In fact the online installer won't get you very far, 
unless you are willing to also use a version of Qt obtained via the same online 
installer. This whole thing is a problem of your Qt version and indeed possibly 
of Ubuntu messing up the paths. It's probably not a problem of Qt Creator.

> 1) Some fool used qml to create the welcome screen thus first introducing the 
> problem. qml should never be used for anything.
> 2) The 12 year old boys who crow about being "maintainers" of packages do 
> little in the way of actual maintenance and testing. They simply remove 
> anything someone complains about or which doesn't compile.
> 3) Ubuntu doesn't test shit. They rely on the YABUs (Yet Another uBUntu) to 
> provide fixes for them
> 4) Virtual Machines tend to hose QtCreator, or at least historically did.
> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-958> [...]

And none of that has anything to do with qmlscene being installed or not, or 
how Qt Creator deals with it. Also, the qmlscene utility and the QML language 
are two rather different things. The welcome screen (used to) be written in 
QML, but Qt Creator doesn't use qmlscene to run it. So, all of this rant is as 
misplaced as it is unnecessary. The only thing that may be remotely relevant is 
the comment about Ubuntu's testing practices, but the information we have here 
is far from being conclusive on this being an actual problem. The author should 
be sorry for wasting everybody's time.

best regards,
Ulf Hermann
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