Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Tim Starling 
wrote:

> On 30/06/18 11:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:
> > readline has license issue. I miss it but I wouldn't object for removing
> it.
> > Let's use libedit for CLI by default and always.
> > Issue may be who is going to do this. If nobody volunteers, I may do
> this.
>
> The discussion is about the readline extension, which includes support
> for both libedit and the GNU Readline library. You can't use libedit
> without the readline extension.
>

./configure --without-readline
makes CLI binary with broken "-a" support as you know.

I'm suggesting libedit capability for CLI binary "without" readline module.
i.e. Statically compiled libedit support in CLI binary.

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Yasuo Ohgaki

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Tim Starling]

On 30/06/18 11:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote:
> readline has license issue. I miss it but I wouldn't object for removing it.
> Let's use libedit for CLI by default and always.
> Issue may be who is going to do this. If nobody volunteers, I may do this.

The discussion is about the readline extension, which includes support
for both libedit and the GNU Readline library. You can't use libedit
without the readline extension.

-- Tim Starling

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Tim Starling 
wrote:

> On 20/06/18 05:46, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> >> unmaintained extensions:
> >>
> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
> >> 
> >>
> >> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
> >>
> >>
> >> Just to be sure consequence of "readline" removal.
> >>
> >> With CLI, "php -a" and "history" works without readline?
> >> Does it work as dynamically loaded module?
> >
> > CLI can still use readline library. This would be about readline PHP
> > extension.
> >
>
> Actually, readline support in "php -a" is part of the extension. The
> extension hooks the SAPI module. See PHP_MINIT_FUNCTION(cli_readline)
> in readline_cli.c.
>
> Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
> losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.
>

readline has license issue. I miss it but I wouldn't object for removing it.
Let's use libedit for CLI by default and always.
Issue may be who is going to do this. If nobody volunteers, I may do this.

--
Yasuo Ohgaki

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions YasuoOhgaki

[Andrey Andreev]

Hi again,

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:07 PM, Christoph M. Becker  wrote:
> On 29.06.2018 at 16:54, Andrey Andreev wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Stanislav Malyshev  
>> wrote:
>>>
 Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
 losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.
>>>
>>> It's not "losing", per se, as the code doesn't get erased, it just moved
>>> to PECL. All distros can build it from there just as they do now. Then
>>> again, if it's super-important and doesn't have any major issues, we
>>> could keep it (or any other extension) around in "community maintained"
>>> status for a while.
>>
>> If "php -a" doesn't work without ext/readline (and I know it never
>> works for me if I don't install the distro-provided php-readline
>> package), then it is super-important.
>
> It's not about removing readline support for the interactive PHP shell,
> see .
>

I know it's not about that, but the problem is that currently (or on
7.0.x at least) the interactive shell doesn't work without the
extension.

Cheers,
Andrey.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions YasuoOhgaki

[Christoph M. Becker]

On 29.06.2018 at 16:54, Andrey Andreev wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Stanislav Malyshev  
> wrote:
>>
>>> Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
>>> losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.
>>
>> It's not "losing", per se, as the code doesn't get erased, it just moved
>> to PECL. All distros can build it from there just as they do now. Then
>> again, if it's super-important and doesn't have any major issues, we
>> could keep it (or any other extension) around in "community maintained"
>> status for a while.
> 
> If "php -a" doesn't work without ext/readline (and I know it never
> works for me if I don't install the distro-provided php-readline
> package), then it is super-important.

It's not about removing readline support for the interactive PHP shell,
see .

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions Yasuo Ohgaki

[Andrey Andreev]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Stanislav Malyshev  wrote:
> Hi!
>
>
>> Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
>> losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.
>
> It's not "losing", per se, as the code doesn't get erased, it just moved
> to PECL. All distros can build it from there just as they do now. Then
> again, if it's super-important and doesn't have any major issues, we
> could keep it (or any other extension) around in "community maintained"
> status for a while.
>

If "php -a" doesn't work without ext/readline (and I know it never
works for me if I don't install the distro-provided php-readline
package), then it is super-important.

Cheers,
Andrey.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions Yasuo Ohgaki

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!


> Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
> losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.

It's not "losing", per se, as the code doesn't get erased, it just moved
to PECL. All distros can build it from there just as they do now. Then
again, if it's super-important and doesn't have any major issues, we
could keep it (or any other extension) around in "community maintained"
status for a while.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions Yasuo Ohgaki

[Tim Starling]

On 20/06/18 05:46, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
> 
>> Hi!
>>
>> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
>> unmaintained extensions:
>>
>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
>> 
>>
>> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>>
>>
>> Just to be sure consequence of "readline" removal.
>>
>> With CLI, "php -a" and "history" works without readline?
>> Does it work as dynamically loaded module?
> 
> CLI can still use readline library. This would be about readline PHP
> extension.
> 

Actually, readline support in "php -a" is part of the extension. The
extension hooks the SAPI module. See PHP_MINIT_FUNCTION(cli_readline)
in readline_cli.c.

Readline is the only extension in your list that I would be sad about
losing. I use it every day, I guess a lot of devs do.

-- Tim Starling

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Lester Caine]

On 19/06/18 21:20, Nikita Popov wrote:

and interbase (has a major bug since the PHP 7
migration and there is nobody with knowledge of this exotic DB driver to
fix it).


What Bug!
It's passing all the test that I run on it perfectly stably otherwise I 
would not even bother with PHP7. But the problem supporting ANY driver 
is the exotic nature of PHP is just as difficult as the tools it needs 
to interface with to make a fully functional stack ...


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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

> What Bug!
> It's passing all the test that I run on it perfectly stably otherwise I
> would not even bother with PHP7. But the problem supporting ANY driver
> is the exotic nature of PHP is just as difficult as the tools it needs
> to interface with to make a fully functional stack ...

I have four bugs for interbase and four for firebird submitted just
recently, as security issues. Do you want to take care of them? I can
assign them to you if you want to take care of them.

Thanks,
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

> There are two extensions that I'm aware of where we have strong
> technical grounds to remove them, that's wddx (for reasons of security
> and questionable utility) and interbase (has a major bug since the PHP 7
> migration and there is nobody with knowledge of this exotic DB driver to
> fix it).

I mostly agree, but this RFC is not for discussing specific extensions,
it's for establishing the policy of what we do with such extensions, and
how.

> like gettext, readline and ftp on that list). Extensions without
> official maintainer in php-src tend to be passively maintained, e.g. I

Or not. As is the case with several of them.

> years (and of course, small extensions like gettext just don't get many
> changes over time). Moving an extension to PECL effectively makes it
> completely unmaintained.

I think if it doesn't have official maintainer and nobody touched it for
years, it's completely unmaintained right now. But for cases like this,
the RFC says:

Option: for some extensions, which are clearly needed but nobody stepped
up in person to claim maintainership, we can have designated “community
maintained” status, which would mean PHP developers as a group have
shared responsibility for this extension.

> 
> To me, moving extensions to PECL is a Pretty Big Deal. It's something
> that should be done on a case-by-case basis, possibly with an RFC, not
> something that happens based on a blanket policy.

I do not see any contradiction between this and what RFC says. In fact,
RFC specifically says:

In case there are objections to moving unmaintained extension to PECL,
separate RFC vote can be held about the move, initiated by the RMs of
the current release or any interested party. The decision can be taken
for each extension individually.

So what exactly you don't like here? It's pretty much exactly the
opposite of "blanket policy".

I am sorry if I am missing something, but it looks to me like you're
saying "I don't like this, we should do this instead" and then literally
you are saying exactly what the RFC is saying. Where is the problem?

-- 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Nikita Popov]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:43 PM, Stanislav Malyshev 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> unmaintained extensions:
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
>
> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>
> I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
> procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
> the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
> make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
> not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
> which will change all the time).
>

I really don't like this.

There are two extensions that I'm aware of where we have strong technical
grounds to remove them, that's wddx (for reasons of security and
questionable utility) and interbase (has a major bug since the PHP 7
migration and there is nobody with knowledge of this exotic DB driver to
fix it).

If we have technical grounds for a removal and nobody is willing to step up
to resolve the issues, then I'm all for moving extensions to PECL. If this
is not the case, then I feel that removing them will not make the situation
any better (especially seeing relatively common extensions like gettext,
readline and ftp on that list). Extensions without official maintainer in
php-src tend to be passively maintained, e.g. I remember merging various
PRs to the ftp extension over the last few years (and of course, small
extensions like gettext just don't get many changes over time). Moving an
extension to PECL effectively makes it completely unmaintained.

To me, moving extensions to PECL is a Pretty Big Deal. It's something that
should be done on a case-by-case basis, possibly with an RFC, not something
that happens based on a blanket policy.

Regards.
Nikita

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

> Hi!
> 
> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> unmaintained extensions:
> 
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
> 
> 
> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
> 
> 
> Just to be sure consequence of "readline" removal.
> 
> With CLI, "php -a" and "history" works without readline?
> Does it work as dynamically loaded module?

CLI can still use readline library. This would be about readline PHP
extension.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Yasuo Ohgaki]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:43 AM, Stanislav Malyshev 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> unmaintained extensions:
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
>
> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>

Just to be sure consequence of "readline" removal.

With CLI, "php -a" and "history" works without readline?
Does it work as dynamically loaded module?

Regards,

--
Yasuo Ohgaki
yohg...@ohgaki.net

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Christoph M. Becker]

On 18.06.2018 at 14:23, Peter Cowburn wrote:

> On 17 June 2018 at 20:43, Stanislav Malyshev  wrote:
> 
>> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
>> unmaintained extensions:
>>
>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_ejkxtensions
>> 
>>
>> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>>
>> I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
>> procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
>> the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
>> make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
>> not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
>> which will change all the time).
> 
> Can anyone point me at the discussion thread for the revival of this RFC?
> On the mailing list there have been a small number of mails broadly about
> extensions and maintainers, and it looks like the RFC was only edited a few
> days ago, but I feel like a dummy and can't find the "I'd like to revive
> this RFC" thread at all.

I had not opened a new thread, but rather replied to the original
discussion thread in .

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Sara Golemon]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Stanislav Malyshev  wrote:
> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> unmaintained extensions:
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions
>
> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>
> I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
> procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
> the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
> make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
> not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
> which will change all the time).
>
FTR; My yes vote comes with the endorsement that I'd like to see us
followup on that future scope work to make this into an on-going
policy rather than focus on the specific extensions in this moment.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Peter Cowburn]

On 17 June 2018 at 20:43, Stanislav Malyshev  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
> unmaintained extensions:
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_ejkxtensions
> 
>
> The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.
>
> I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
> procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
> the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
> make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
> not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
> which will change all the time).
>

Can anyone point me at the discussion thread for the revival of this RFC?
On the mailing list there have been a small number of mails broadly about
extensions and maintainers, and it looks like the RFC was only edited a few
days ago, but I feel like a dummy and can't find the "I'd like to revive
this RFC" thread at all.


>
> Thanks,
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalys...@gmail.com
>
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>
>

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Christopher Jones]

On 18/6/18 5:43 am, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:

Hi!

I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
unmaintained extensions:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions

The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.

I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
which will change all the time).

Thanks,

- I know we're all online all the time, but I would have gone for a 4 week 
period instead of 3.  Many countries have significant vacation periods.

- the "community maintained" option looks OK.

- Since this is a process & policy RFC that has a long lifespan as a reference, 
what about renaming it to 'PHP RFC: Process for Unmaintained Extensions'?

[Somehow https://wiki.php.net/rfc should capture these active references. 
Currently they are in the same section as things such as PHP 5.3 EOL]

Chris

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[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Cleaning up unmaintained extensions

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

I would like to open the vote for the RFC about cleaning up the
unmaintained extensions:

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/umaintained_extensions

The vote ends 2018-06-26 23:59 PDT.

I have added some discussion about active maintainers and abandonment
procedures, this can be refined further later. I also kept the list of
the candidates as-is for now, but I will update it soon and probably
make a separate wiki page for maintaining it. Please note this list is
not part of the vote (the vote is on the process, not specific list
which will change all the time).

Thanks,
-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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