Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me wrote:
While we're at it,
$a = 'this';
$$a = new StdClass();
should be an error.
Also $GLOBALS['this'] = new StdClass();
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=52428
Hehe, I already caught all those executor tricks, like :
?php
${'th'.'is'} = 'what I want';
In fact, $this is checked at compile time. The compiler checks for
the letters t+h+i+s to be found in the code, (usually throught
strcmp()) and acts as we know.
$this is never checked at execution, that's why we can use such tricks
to do illegal things.
I discussed that with [I cant remember who] (Felipe wasn't it?) few
times ago, and he told me that checking for $this to be used at
execution time would be too time consuming (I assume it would need a
lookup at every variable read operation, so that's why).
Plus, if someone wants to shoot himself in the foot, then let him do it.
Coming back to the RFC subject :
- Excuse me to perhaps ask for too much but: why don't we simply
forbid any static method call to non static method ?
I mean, that's something I've never understood why PHP allows an
instance method to be called statically ? That's a non sense to my
eyes, I've never used such a thing in my PHP life. That's ugly,
illogic and simply wrong.
If you want to call a method statically, then make it static and then
prevent it from carrying any $this information.
But I see that most of you would prefer keeping this behavior and
somehow fix it by just turning $this to NULL in incompatible context.
I would have thrown an E_FATAL-what're-u-doing error :-p
Julien
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Etienne Kneuss col...@php.net wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. After several explanations with Etienne on static calls , then I see why my purpose is not very right :) So I +1 Gustavo's proposal which seem pretty in the right way things must be done IMO :) Thank you Julien -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.ptwrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctxhttps://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php for the record I got bitten by that once or twice in the past and first time it was a huuuge wtf. definitively a +1 from me. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. 4+ years ago Marcus already wanted to clean that up in PHP6. Definitely +1. Best, -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Etienne Kneuss http://www.colder.ch -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On 03/08/12 23:36, Etienne Kneuss wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. 4+ years ago Marcus already wanted to clean that up in PHP6. Definitely +1. Best, -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php While we're at it, $a = 'this'; $$a = new StdClass(); should be an error. Also $GLOBALS['this'] = new StdClass(); https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=52428 -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/
[PHP-DEV] 回复： [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
在 2012年8月4日星期六，上午6:40，Andrew Faulds 写道：
On 03/08/12 23:36, Etienne Kneuss wrote:
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt
(mailto:glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt) wrote:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx
An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context.
Comments are welcome.
4+ years ago Marcus already wanted to clean that up in PHP6.
Definitely +1.
Best,
--
Gustavo Lopes
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While we're at it,
$a = 'this';
$$a = new StdClass();
should be an error.
Also $GLOBALS['this'] = new StdClass();
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=52428
then so does: extract(array('this' = 'scalar')); and the similar situation
that may import variables.
--
Andrew Faulds
http://ajf.me/
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
Hi! https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. IMO makes sense. Nulling-out $this makes most of the sane code (like de-facto static functions not marked as static) work, and breaking insane code in 5.5 in acceptable. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227 -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
Slightly off-topic, $this being equal to NULL reminds me of how ECMAScript 5
changed the value of this to undefined in strict mode when not being called
as a method. I agree it's a more sensible solution, as the disappearance of a
variable might be more difficult to deal with than a variable changing value.
With the latter, you can just do var_dump($this) and see it is now NULL, which I
expect would be less confusing than it suddenly not being present.
On 30 July 2012 at 21:13 Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote:
Em Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:42:59 +0200, Will Fitch willfi...@php.net
escreveu:
I think this is a good idea. I agree with the intention of throwing
E_DEPRECATED in 5.5, but what do you propose happen afterwards? Throw a
fatal error? I would just like to make removing (in the next version)
a little more definitive.
As much as I'd like to have an error at call site here, the most sensible
option is to just have $this === null inside the callee, like when you do:
class A { function foo() {} }
A::foo(); // E_STRICT
I'll update the RFC with this.
--
Gustavo Lopes
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[PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
I think this is a good idea. I agree with the intention of throwing E_DEPRECATED in 5.5, but what do you propose happen afterwards? Throw a fatal error? I would just like to make removing (in the next version) a little more definitive. On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.ptwrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctxhttps://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
Gustavo, On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.ptwrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctxhttps://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. A few points. 1. Finally! It's caused a lot of WTF moments. 2. I have seen it in production code. Usually it wasn't intentional, but changing it would definitely break things pretty bad... (Not a reason not to change it, just pointing out that I have come across it). 3. You'd need to be careful to ensure that the error is raised only when the called class is not in the same tree. http://codepad.viper-7.com/sOLCDu Otherwise it would be difficult to call grand-parent code (skipping the parent, if needed)... Nice job. Anthony
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Mon, 2012-07-30 at 19:31 +0200, Gustavo Lopes wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. -- Gustavo Lopes I'm just a user, but I'd like to beg that the feature not be removed, at least not without having an ini setting for at least a couple of years. As the RFC states, This feature can, however, be used to implement trait-like behavior, and I'm sure someone somewhere did such a thing. I know in our company's code, such uses were frequent. I believe they are still common. Refactoring often doesn't fit the schedule. I doubt we're unusual in allowing classes to do more than they should instead of separating code off into a trait or making other high level changes. Note that traits have only been available since March 1, 2012 (php 5.4.0). I don't think axing register globals is very relevant. Perhaps after traits have been available for several years the comparison would be better. With register globals, a good alternative (the $_ variables) have been around for many years. With traits, a good alternative has been around for a few months. I think the point of mentioning register globals is just to say We've made huge BC breaks before. That doesn't make it less painful. Off-topic, but to show a potentially higher priority... If you want to get rid of class related WTF, please put get_class() back to the way it used to be. Right now, calling get_class() with a variable that is null is the same as calling get_class with no arguments. I can imagine why that might be convenient for the implementation, but it is terribly confusing. Thanks for listening. - Todd -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Todd Ruth tr...@proposaltech.com wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-30 at 19:31 +0200, Gustavo Lopes wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. -- Gustavo Lopes I'm just a user, but I'd like to beg that the feature not be removed, at least not without having an ini setting for at least a couple of years. As the RFC states, This feature can, however, be used to implement trait-like behavior, and I'm sure someone somewhere did such a thing. I know in our company's code, such uses were frequent. I believe they are still common. Refactoring often doesn't fit the schedule. I doubt we're unusual in allowing classes to do more than they should instead of separating code off into a trait or making other high level changes. Note that traits have only been available since March 1, 2012 (php 5.4.0). I don't think axing register globals is very relevant. Perhaps after traits have been available for several years the comparison would be better. With register globals, a good alternative (the $_ variables) have been around for many years. With traits, a good alternative has been around for a few months. I think the point of mentioning register globals is just to say We've made huge BC breaks before. That doesn't make it less painful. Software evolution at this level will always have some aches and pains for someone. This is a feature that has been discouraged (E_STRICT) for a very long time, and, as pointed out in the RFC, is around only to be compatible with PHP 4. This should've been nixed with the death of PHP 4 IMO. If we waited around for everyone to update their codebase before deprecating/removing features, it would never happen. The point of deprecation is to give a final warning that a feature is going to be removed in a future release. This should be your company's indication to make the necessary changes. That said, the length of deprecation is up in the air. I'm not sure that removing in the release immediately after deprecation is the right route, but deprecating this in the next release *should* happen. Off-topic, but to show a potentially higher priority... If you want to get rid of class related WTF, please put get_class() back to the way it used to be. Right now, calling get_class() with a variable that is null is the same as calling get_class with no arguments. I can imagine why that might be convenient for the implementation, but it is terribly confusing. Thanks for listening. - Todd -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
Em Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:42:59 +0200, Will Fitch willfi...@php.net
escreveu:
I think this is a good idea. I agree with the intention of throwing
E_DEPRECATED in 5.5, but what do you propose happen afterwards? Throw a
fatal error? I would just like to make removing (in the next version)
a little more definitive.
As much as I'd like to have an error at call site here, the most sensible
option is to just have $this === null inside the callee, like when you do:
class A { function foo() {} }
A::foo(); // E_STRICT
I'll update the RFC with this.
--
Gustavo Lopes
--
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
Em Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:11:58 +0200, Todd Ruth tr...@proposaltech.com escreveu: On Mon, 2012-07-30 at 19:31 +0200, Gustavo Lopes wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. Comments are welcome. I'm just a user, but I'd like to beg that the feature not be removed, at least not without having an ini setting for at least a couple of years. As the RFC states, This feature can, however, be used to implement trait-like behavior, and I'm sure someone somewhere did such a thing. I know in our company's code, such uses were frequent. I believe they are still common. Refactoring often doesn't fit the schedule. I doubt we're unusual in allowing classes to do more than they should instead of separating code off into a trait or making other high level changes. Note that traits have only been available since March 1, 2012 (php 5.4.0). I don't doubt that you're not 'unusual in allowing classes to do more than they should instead of separating code off into a trait or making other high level changes'. I DO doubt, however, that this particular form of class bloating is usual or not unusual. However, it will be impossible to collect reliable data on this. I don't think axing register globals is very relevant. Perhaps after traits have been available for several years the comparison would be better. With register globals, a good alternative (the $_ variables) have been around for many years. With traits, a good alternative has been around for a few months. I think the point of mentioning register globals is just to say We've made huge BC breaks before. That doesn't make it less painful. 1. I don't think how long traits have been around particularly relevant here. The relevant question, IMO, is whether an alternative exists. And if you're upgrading to a version where call-with-incompatible-context does not exist, traits will definitely be an option. At most, it's a point for the minority of code that must run in multiple versions, but 2. I don't even agree with the premise. By the time this is removed, traits will have been around for quite some time. Plus, 3. There are other low-cost alternatives, namely the obvious one: pass the object via an extra parameter instead of operating on $this directly and unconditionally. This is really easy to do. 4. Maybe register_globals was not the best example, as you have very easy workarounds. But consider the removal of call-time pass by reference (deprecated in 5.3 -- if I'm not mistaken -- and removed in 5.4). It's a change that does require significant refactoring (not to mention the awkwardness of having to use call_user_func_array() to pass by reference to __call methods), and it had certainly a much wider use than this. -- Gustavo Lopes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Remove calls with incompatible Context
On 07/30/2012 01:32 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: 3. There are other low-cost alternatives, namely the obvious one: pass the object via an extra parameter instead of operating on $this directly and unconditionally. This is really easy to do. This kind of thing should be mentioned in the RFC. Chris -- christopher.jo...@oracle.com http://twitter.com/#!/ghrd -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
