Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Patrick Serru]

  Bonjour johannes, hi everybody,

Le samedi 23 mai 2009, vous avez écrit :
> Bonsoir,
> 
> I think the language syntax definition is more a part r the genaral
> documentation and too specific for a "getting started with internals"
> document. The language definition is a small part of PHP ...
  I was thinking that it would probably exists some grammar definition 
using BNF... something more concise, for my exercise, than the user's 
documentation (the quality of which is very good).
> 
> $ php -nr 'function declare_class() { class Foo {} } declare_class(); 
var_dump(new Foo());'
> object(Foo)#1 (0) {
> }
> Seems to work, or didn't I understand your problem?
  Sorry about that. Of course, I was wrong. There was a die() at the end 
of the tested function. My confusion may be due to the fact that I had 
difficulties with the scope at the end of a inserted file in which a classe 
was declared.
> 
> johannes
> 
  Thank you for the attention you paid to my mail, and anwers,
Patrick

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Johannes Schlüter]

Hi,

On Sat, 2009-05-23 at 20:05 +0530, Shirish Padalkar wrote:
> Hi Philip,
> Here is one suggestion for the page
> http://wiki.php.net/doc/scratchpad/wheretohelp
> 
> In the Writing an extension
> 
>- What is PECL?
>- Why PECL?
> 
> 
> we can give a link to PECL page on pear website or wikipedia link for PECL.
> It would be good who want to know more about PECL.

The entry point should have a quick summary to avoid having too many
links and sending users for basic information away. And linking to
Wikipedia for information abut OUR infrastructure feels absolutely
wrong, we should be able to explan what it is better than WP :-)

> We can provide following links-
> http://pecl.php.net/
> OR
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP_Extension_Community_Library#PECL
> 
> One more option is to show a small pop-up (just like as CVS on the page)
> about PECL.

No idea how to create them, not sure if such a small thing brings any
real benefit - reading "PHP Extension Community Library" without knowing
PECL won't tell you anything. A more verbose explanation is needed.

johannes



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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Johannes Schlüter]

Bonsoir,

On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 12:51 -0500, Patrick Serru wrote:
>   Indeed, I was looking for some definition of PHP as language. I'm not 
> a specialist, but HOBBIST well interested. I try to build a parser in PHP, 
> and parsing PHP first! Then, I was just needing more material related to 
> the language it self.

I think the language syntax definition is more a part r the genaral
documentation and too specific for a "getting started with internals"
document. The language definition is a small part of PHP ...

>   For instance, here is my last interogation: I noted that a class, 
> defined inside a function does not has a global scope, and if I well 
> remember, this does not fit with my readings... Is it a bug, or have I a 
> bad memory ?


$ php -nr 'function declare_class() { class Foo {} } declare_class(); 
var_dump(new Foo());'
object(Foo)#1 (0) {
}

Seems to work, or didn't I understand your problem?

johannes



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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Shirish Padalkar]

Hi Philip,
Here is one suggestion for the page
http://wiki.php.net/doc/scratchpad/wheretohelp

In the Writing an extension

   - What is PECL?
   - Why PECL?


we can give a link to PECL page on pear website or wikipedia link for PECL.
It would be good who want to know more about PECL.

We can provide following links-
http://pecl.php.net/
OR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP_Extension_Community_Library#PECL

One more option is to show a small pop-up (just like as CVS on the page)
about PECL.

What you think?

2009/5/22 Philip Olson 

> Great topic... a few thoughts:
>
> - Internals documentation
>
> This task needs volunteers. Ideally a mix of people who have either no,
> some or enormous knowledge of internals but all with desire to both learn
> and teach it. Gwynne started the task but ran out of steam (life and the svn
> migration got in the way) but some good content exists. But, this is its own
> topic. Volunteers please email me and let's organize a hackfestish type
> event.
>
> - Bug tracker as a starting point
>
> The idea of intentionally creating nice bug reports for fairly simple
> non-critical issues, and promoting these as tasks for new people definitely
> sounds worth the extra effort. All ideas for how the bug tracker could help
> with this are welcome.
>
> - A "Get Involved" guide
>
> Some nice thoughts in this thread, and similar ones for a _rough_ TOC here:
>
>  - http://wiki.php.net/doc/scratchpad/wheretohelp
>
> The basic idea is to create and promote a "Get Involved" section. To
> digress, awhile back while thinking about this (and wondering how the
> php.net project survives without it) I stumbled around and started a
> different yet related project:
>
>  - http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Teaching_Get_Involved
>
> The plan is to learn how best to approach this topic and then apply it to
> php.net. If people are interested in working on this or only php.netspecific 
> parts then please let me know. So what that it's taken us 10 years
> to write a nice "Get Involved" guide, but at least we now have several
> resources to learn [steal!] ideas from while we create our own :) Common
> problems like repeated, lost and outdated content can no doubt be overcome.
>
> Regards,
> Philip
>
>
>
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> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>


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_ S H I R I S H _

Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Patrick Serru]

Le vendredi 22 mai 2009, Philip Olson a écrit :
> - Internals documentation
> 
> This task needs volunteers. Ideally a mix of people who have either  
> no, some or enormous knowledge of internals but all with desire to  
> both learn and teach it. Gwynne started the task but ran out of steam  
> (life and the svn migration got in the way) but some good content  
> exists. But, this is its own topic. Volunteers please email me and  
> let's organize a hackfestish type event.
--
  Hi Philip,

  Why not! My natural language is french (nobody's perfect!) but let's 
try, never known, maybe I could help.

  Indeed, I was looking for some definition of PHP as language. I'm not 
a specialist, but HOBBIST well interested. I try to build a parser in PHP, 
and parsing PHP first! Then, I was just needing more material related to 
the language it self.

  For instance, here is my last interogation: I noted that a class, 
defined inside a function does not has a global scope, and if I well 
remember, this does not fit with my readings... Is it a bug, or have I a 
bad memory ?

  Sincerly

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Philip Olson]

Great topic... a few thoughts:

- Internals documentation

This task needs volunteers. Ideally a mix of people who have either  
no, some or enormous knowledge of internals but all with desire to  
both learn and teach it. Gwynne started the task but ran out of steam  
(life and the svn migration got in the way) but some good content  
exists. But, this is its own topic. Volunteers please email me and  
let's organize a hackfestish type event.


- Bug tracker as a starting point

The idea of intentionally creating nice bug reports for fairly simple  
non-critical issues, and promoting these as tasks for new people  
definitely sounds worth the extra effort. All ideas for how the bug  
tracker could help with this are welcome.


- A "Get Involved" guide

Some nice thoughts in this thread, and similar ones for a _rough_ TOC  
here:


  - http://wiki.php.net/doc/scratchpad/wheretohelp

The basic idea is to create and promote a "Get Involved" section. To  
digress, awhile back while thinking about this (and wondering how the  
php.net project survives without it) I stumbled around and started a  
different yet related project:


  - http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Teaching_Get_Involved

The plan is to learn how best to approach this topic and then apply it  
to php.net. If people are interested in working on this or only  
php.net specific parts then please let me know. So what that it's  
taken us 10 years to write a nice "Get Involved" guide, but at least  
we now have several resources to learn [steal!] ideas from while we  
create our own :) Common problems like repeated, lost and outdated  
content can no doubt be overcome.


Regards,
Philip



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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Johannes Schlüter]

On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 12:58 +0200, Sahid Ferdjaoui wrote:
> Yes, why not :)
> 
> By get involved section,
> i seek a guideline for contribute for each different points.
> 
> * Internal development
>   * References
> * TSRM
> * Zend Engine API
> * ...

Some documentation on this exists in the manual:
  http://php.net/internals2
Not sure how much but we might try to revive the internals-doc-writing
efforts...

>   * Coding standard

http://de2.php.net/reST/php-src/CODING_STANDARDS

>   * Get Started
>   * Features
>   * Bugs
> * motivate ? go to seek a bug now !
> * ok, no panic, explain and purpose a patch
> * ...

Would help if the Bug Tracker was extended to mark (hopefully) low
hanging fruits for starters

[...]

so lot's of information *is* available but very unstructured and
distributed over many places.
So a start might be to collect the links to one place with some guiding
comments...

> for example i like it :
> http://live.gnome.org/JoinGnome

That recently drove me nuts, I just wanted to locate the current VCS
repository one of their projects was using for creating a simple patch,
which I had ready against an older release but there was too much
"irrelevant" information hiding the things  was looking for. No I'm not
looking for a Gtk tutorial, not for a mentor, not for love (well, maybe
I do, but not related to gnome), ...

But that's actually the tough part: Don't become too verbose while
providing tons of information while again be motivational to beginners,
too.

johannes


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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Sahid Ferdjaoui]

Yes, why not :)

By get involved section,
i seek a guideline for contribute for each different points.

* Internal development
  * References
* TSRM
* Zend Engine API
* ...
  * Coding standard
  * Get Started
  * Features
  * Bugs
* motivate ? go to seek a bug now !
* ok, no panic, explain and purpose a patch
* ...
* Pecl development
  * How to (ok ...Sara Golemon's book)
  * What php need ?
* QA
* Documentation

Because php is a very big project and it is dificulte to say:
"No problem Rasmus...,
 you can take a nap, i will fix this bug." ;)

for example i like it :
http://live.gnome.org/JoinGnome

--
~/sahid
http://sahid.funraill.org



On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Christopher Jones
 wrote:
>
>
> David Coallier wrote:
>>
>> 2009/5/14 Sahid Ferdjaoui :
>>>
>>> Hello Internals,
>>>
>>> I want to contribute for PHP Internal,
>>> but i don't know how to do it.
>>>
>>> I am ready to give approximately 6 to 12 hours per week for PHP.
>>>
>>> i have checked a wiki,
>>> but i don't see a "get involved" section and i do not know how to start
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>> The best way to get started is to check http://php.net/anoncvs make a
>> checkout of HEAD (php6) and then go to http://bugs.php.net start
>> making patches and attach them to bug reports.
>>
>> From there you will gain developers trust (People will be tired of
>> committing all your patches) and at some point you'll be granted with
>> an account :)
>>
>> Good luck and welcome :)
>>
>
> Yes, welcome!
>
> Perhaps you could create a "get involved" wiki section based on what you
> find out about getting involved?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Email: christopher.jo...@oracle.com
> Twitter:  http://twitter.com/ghrd
>

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Christopher Jones]

David Coallier wrote:

2009/5/14 Sahid Ferdjaoui :

Hello Internals,

I want to contribute for PHP Internal,
but i don't know how to do it.

I am ready to give approximately 6 to 12 hours per week for PHP.

i have checked a wiki,
but i don't see a "get involved" section and i do not know how to start :)



The best way to get started is to check http://php.net/anoncvs make a
checkout of HEAD (php6) and then go to http://bugs.php.net start
making patches and attach them to bug reports.

From there you will gain developers trust (People will be tired of
committing all your patches) and at some point you'll be granted with
an account :)

Good luck and welcome :)



Yes, welcome!

Perhaps you could create a "get involved" wiki section based on what you
find out about getting involved?

Chris

--
Email: christopher.jo...@oracle.com
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/ghrd

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[Sahid Ferdjaoui]

Hello David,

I will follow your advice now :)

Thanks !

--
~/sahid
http://sahid.funraill.org



On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:16 PM, David Coallier  wrote:
> 2009/5/14 Sahid Ferdjaoui :
>> Hello Internals,
>>
>> I want to contribute for PHP Internal,
>> but i don't know how to do it.
>>
>> I am ready to give approximately 6 to 12 hours per week for PHP.
>>
>> i have checked a wiki,
>> but i don't see a "get involved" section and i do not know how to start :)
>>
>
> The best way to get started is to check http://php.net/anoncvs make a
> checkout of HEAD (php6) and then go to http://bugs.php.net start
> making patches and attach them to bug reports.
>
> From there you will gain developers trust (People will be tired of
> committing all your patches) and at some point you'll be granted with
> an account :)
>
> Good luck and welcome :)
>
> --
> Slan,
> David
>

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to contribute for PHP Internals

[David Coallier]

2009/5/14 Sahid Ferdjaoui :
> Hello Internals,
>
> I want to contribute for PHP Internal,
> but i don't know how to do it.
>
> I am ready to give approximately 6 to 12 hours per week for PHP.
>
> i have checked a wiki,
> but i don't see a "get involved" section and i do not know how to start :)
>

The best way to get started is to check http://php.net/anoncvs make a
checkout of HEAD (php6) and then go to http://bugs.php.net start
making patches and attach them to bug reports.

>From there you will gain developers trust (People will be tired of
committing all your patches) and at some point you'll be granted with
an account :)

Good luck and welcome :)

-- 
Slan,
David

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