Re: [PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
Hi Alex, On 2/15/2017 4:43 PM, Sinan Kaya wrote: > On 2/15/2017 2:36 PM, Alex Williamson wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 22:53:35 -0500 >> ok...@codeaurora.org wrote: >> >>> On 2017-02-14 18:51, Alex Williamson wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:25:22 -0500 Sinan Kaya wrote: > The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only > known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a > warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. > > Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya > --- > drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ > 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) > > diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 > --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device > *dev) > if (IS_ERR(group)) > return NULL; > > + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) > + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path > failure\n"); > + > return group; > } > The premise here is flawed. An IOMMU group based at the root bus doesn't necessarily imply a lack of ACS. There are devices on root buses, integrated endpoints and root ports. Naturally an IOMMU group for these devices needs to be based at the root bus. Additionally, there can be IOMMU groups developed around a lack of ACS that don't intersect with the root bus. Since this is a warn_once, the false positives for root bus devices are going to be enumerated first. On an Intel system there's typically a device as 00.0 that will always be pointlessly listed first. Also, it's not clear that grouping devices together is always wrong, as Robin pointed out in the EHCI/OHCI example. Lack of ACS on downtream ports is likely to cause problems, especially if that downstream port exposes a slot. Maybe that would be a good place to start. Also, what is someone supposed to do when they see this error? If we can hope they'll look for the error in the code (unlikely) a big comment with useful external links might be necessary. Based on how easily vendors ignore kernel warnings, I'm dubious there's any value to this path though. Thanks, >>> >>> Maybe, a better solution would be to add some sentences into vfio.txt >>> documentation. >>> >>> I'm ready to drop this patch. I just don't want ACS requirement to be >>> hidden between the source code. >>> I posted V2 to linux-pci maillist but forgot to CC the iommu group. [PATCH V2] PCI: add QCOM root port quirks for ACS I dropped the second patch (this one I'm replying to) as discussed. I did minor cleanups in the first commit including 1- commit message change 2- replace dev_info_once with dev_info https://patchwork.codeaurora.org/patch/177033/ Sinan -- Sinan Kaya Qualcomm Datacenter Technologies, Inc. as an affiliate of Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. is a member of the Code Aurora Forum, a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project. ___ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
Re: [PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
On 2/15/2017 2:36 PM, Alex Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 22:53:35 -0500 > ok...@codeaurora.org wrote: > >> On 2017-02-14 18:51, Alex Williamson wrote: >>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:25:22 -0500 >>> Sinan Kaya wrote: >>> The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya --- drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device *dev) if (IS_ERR(group)) return NULL; + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path failure\n"); + return group; } >>> >>> The premise here is flawed. An IOMMU group based at the root bus >>> doesn't necessarily imply a lack of ACS. There are devices on root >>> buses, integrated endpoints and root ports. Naturally an IOMMU group >>> for these devices needs to be based at the root bus. Additionally, >>> there can be IOMMU groups developed around a lack of ACS that don't >>> intersect with the root bus. Since this is a warn_once, the false >>> positives for root bus devices are going to be enumerated first. On an >>> Intel system there's typically a device as 00.0 that will always be >>> pointlessly listed first. Also, it's not clear that grouping devices >>> together is always wrong, as Robin pointed out in the EHCI/OHCI >>> example. Lack of ACS on downtream ports is likely to cause problems, >>> especially if that downstream port exposes a slot. Maybe that would be >>> a good place to start. Also, what is someone supposed to do when they >>> see this error? If we can hope they'll look for the error in the code >>> (unlikely) a big comment with useful external links might be >>> necessary. Based on how easily vendors ignore kernel warnings, I'm >>> dubious there's any value to this path though. Thanks, >> >> Maybe, a better solution would be to add some sentences into vfio.txt >> documentation. >> >> I'm ready to drop this patch. I just don't want ACS requirement to be >> hidden between the source code. >> >> Would you be willing to do that? >> >> I know I read all pci and vfio documents in the past. I could have >> captured this requirement if it was there. > > We already have this: > > Documentation/vfio.txt: > ... > This isolation is not always at the granularity of a single device > though. Even when an IOMMU is capable of this, properties of devices, > interconnects, and IOMMU topologies can each reduce this isolation. > For instance, an individual device may be part of a larger multi- > function enclosure. While the IOMMU may be able to distinguish > between devices within the enclosure, the enclosure may not require > transactions between devices to reach the IOMMU. Examples of this > could be anything from a multi-function PCI device with backdoors > between functions to a non-PCI-ACS (Access Control Services) capable > bridge allowing redirection without reaching the IOMMU. Topology > can also play a factor in terms of hiding devices. A PCIe-to-PCI > bridge masks the devices behind it, making transaction appear as if > from the bridge itself. Obviously IOMMU design plays a major factor > as well. > ... > > Additionally if you google for "iommu group", this is the first hit: > > http://vfio.blogspot.com/2014/08/iommu-groups-inside-and-out.html > > This talks extensively about ACS. A few hits below that you can find a > presentation I've given with ACS examples. What additional > documentation do you think would have helped you discover or understand > this problem earlier? > > I agree that device isolation is not a spec requirement. The specs > give us the tools that we need, but valid uses cases exist where a lack > of isolation may be preferred. If we logically deduce how we can give > a device or set of devices to a user for an untrusted environment, > isolated from other devices, I think it's pretty logical to come to the > conclusion that ACS is the only way that PCIe hardware can allow that > sort of control in a standard way. Clearly we also recognize that this > is a commonly overlooked area where hardware vendors may fail to > incorporate this subtly into their platform design guidelines and thus > we have numerous quirks for exposing virtual ACS-like isolation. The > hope is that adding a quirk for this devices means that feedback was > provided to the hardware teams and system architects within the > companies developing these devices to consider this use case and > implement native ACS in the next generation. Thanks,
Re: [PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 22:53:35 -0500 ok...@codeaurora.org wrote: > On 2017-02-14 18:51, Alex Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:25:22 -0500 > > Sinan Kaya wrote: > > > >> The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only > >> known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a > >> warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. > >> > >> Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya > >> --- > >> drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ > >> 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) > >> > >> diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > >> index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 > >> --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > >> +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > >> @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device > >> *dev) > >>if (IS_ERR(group)) > >>return NULL; > >> > >> + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) > >> + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path > >> failure\n"); > >> + > >>return group; > >> } > >> > > > > The premise here is flawed. An IOMMU group based at the root bus > > doesn't necessarily imply a lack of ACS. There are devices on root > > buses, integrated endpoints and root ports. Naturally an IOMMU group > > for these devices needs to be based at the root bus. Additionally, > > there can be IOMMU groups developed around a lack of ACS that don't > > intersect with the root bus. Since this is a warn_once, the false > > positives for root bus devices are going to be enumerated first. On an > > Intel system there's typically a device as 00.0 that will always be > > pointlessly listed first. Also, it's not clear that grouping devices > > together is always wrong, as Robin pointed out in the EHCI/OHCI > > example. Lack of ACS on downtream ports is likely to cause problems, > > especially if that downstream port exposes a slot. Maybe that would be > > a good place to start. Also, what is someone supposed to do when they > > see this error? If we can hope they'll look for the error in the code > > (unlikely) a big comment with useful external links might be > > necessary. Based on how easily vendors ignore kernel warnings, I'm > > dubious there's any value to this path though. Thanks, > > Maybe, a better solution would be to add some sentences into vfio.txt > documentation. > > I'm ready to drop this patch. I just don't want ACS requirement to be > hidden between the source code. > > Would you be willing to do that? > > I know I read all pci and vfio documents in the past. I could have > captured this requirement if it was there. We already have this: Documentation/vfio.txt: ... This isolation is not always at the granularity of a single device though. Even when an IOMMU is capable of this, properties of devices, interconnects, and IOMMU topologies can each reduce this isolation. For instance, an individual device may be part of a larger multi- function enclosure. While the IOMMU may be able to distinguish between devices within the enclosure, the enclosure may not require transactions between devices to reach the IOMMU. Examples of this could be anything from a multi-function PCI device with backdoors between functions to a non-PCI-ACS (Access Control Services) capable bridge allowing redirection without reaching the IOMMU. Topology can also play a factor in terms of hiding devices. A PCIe-to-PCI bridge masks the devices behind it, making transaction appear as if from the bridge itself. Obviously IOMMU design plays a major factor as well. ... Additionally if you google for "iommu group", this is the first hit: http://vfio.blogspot.com/2014/08/iommu-groups-inside-and-out.html This talks extensively about ACS. A few hits below that you can find a presentation I've given with ACS examples. What additional documentation do you think would have helped you discover or understand this problem earlier? I agree that device isolation is not a spec requirement. The specs give us the tools that we need, but valid uses cases exist where a lack of isolation may be preferred. If we logically deduce how we can give a device or set of devices to a user for an untrusted environment, isolated from other devices, I think it's pretty logical to come to the conclusion that ACS is the only way that PCIe hardware can allow that sort of control in a standard way. Clearly we also recognize that this is a commonly overlooked area where hardware vendors may fail to incorporate this subtly into their platform design guidelines and thus we have numerous quirks for exposing virtual ACS-like isolation. The hope is that adding a quirk for this devices means that feedback was provided to the hardware teams and system architects within the companies developing these devices to consider this use case and implement native ACS in the next generation. Thanks, Alex ___ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailm
Re: [PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
On 2017-02-14 18:51, Alex Williamson wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:25:22 -0500 Sinan Kaya wrote: The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya --- drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device *dev) if (IS_ERR(group)) return NULL; + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path failure\n"); + return group; } The premise here is flawed. An IOMMU group based at the root bus doesn't necessarily imply a lack of ACS. There are devices on root buses, integrated endpoints and root ports. Naturally an IOMMU group for these devices needs to be based at the root bus. Additionally, there can be IOMMU groups developed around a lack of ACS that don't intersect with the root bus. Since this is a warn_once, the false positives for root bus devices are going to be enumerated first. On an Intel system there's typically a device as 00.0 that will always be pointlessly listed first. Also, it's not clear that grouping devices together is always wrong, as Robin pointed out in the EHCI/OHCI example. Lack of ACS on downtream ports is likely to cause problems, especially if that downstream port exposes a slot. Maybe that would be a good place to start. Also, what is someone supposed to do when they see this error? If we can hope they'll look for the error in the code (unlikely) a big comment with useful external links might be necessary. Based on how easily vendors ignore kernel warnings, I'm dubious there's any value to this path though. Thanks, Maybe, a better solution would be to add some sentences into vfio.txt documentation. I'm ready to drop this patch. I just don't want ACS requirement to be hidden between the source code. Would you be willing to do that? I know I read all pci and vfio documents in the past. I could have captured this requirement if it was there. Alex ___ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
Re: [PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:25:22 -0500 Sinan Kaya wrote: > The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only > known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a > warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. > > Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya > --- > drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ > 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) > > diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 > --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c > @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device *dev) > if (IS_ERR(group)) > return NULL; > > + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) > + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path > failure\n"); > + > return group; > } > The premise here is flawed. An IOMMU group based at the root bus doesn't necessarily imply a lack of ACS. There are devices on root buses, integrated endpoints and root ports. Naturally an IOMMU group for these devices needs to be based at the root bus. Additionally, there can be IOMMU groups developed around a lack of ACS that don't intersect with the root bus. Since this is a warn_once, the false positives for root bus devices are going to be enumerated first. On an Intel system there's typically a device as 00.0 that will always be pointlessly listed first. Also, it's not clear that grouping devices together is always wrong, as Robin pointed out in the EHCI/OHCI example. Lack of ACS on downtream ports is likely to cause problems, especially if that downstream port exposes a slot. Maybe that would be a good place to start. Also, what is someone supposed to do when they see this error? If we can hope they'll look for the error in the code (unlikely) a big comment with useful external links might be necessary. Based on how easily vendors ignore kernel warnings, I'm dubious there's any value to this path though. Thanks, Alex ___ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
[PATCH 2/2] iommu: add warning when sharing groups
The ACS requirement has been obscured in the current code and is only known by certain individuals who happen to read the code. Print out a warning with ACS path failure when ACS requirement is not met. Signed-off-by: Sinan Kaya --- drivers/iommu/iommu.c | 3 +++ 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) diff --git a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c index dbe7f65..049ee0a 100644 --- a/drivers/iommu/iommu.c +++ b/drivers/iommu/iommu.c @@ -811,6 +811,9 @@ struct iommu_group *pci_device_group(struct device *dev) if (IS_ERR(group)) return NULL; + if (pci_is_root_bus(bus)) + dev_warn_once(&pdev->dev, "using shared group due to ACS path failure\n"); + return group; } -- 1.9.1 ___ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
