Re: [IRCA] [ultralightdx] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming

[John H. Bryant]

Many thanks to the folks who gave us such thoughtful responses on 
this question.  I wish there were an easy answer to the 
identification situations like XEW//XEWB-900 and I was hoping that 
someone knew of such. However, it appears to me that Brandon and 
others hit the nail on the head... "I'm not to sure how much of a 
hard rule could or should be made regarding this, perhaps it would be 
best to just leave the decision up to each individual DXer?"


I can sure live with that!  Happily, there aren't many examples like 
this out there.


In my own case, I'm sure that the soul searching is beneficial.

THANKS!!!
JOhn B.





At 12:59 AM 2/20/2009 -0600, you wrote:


There is also the Rebelde outlets on 1180 kHz. There are two distinct
transmitters broadcasting about 1/2 second apart, apparently on purpose
to interfere with Radio Marti with a huge echo. That would seem to be a
bit of a mix of C and D.

Personally, I would only count the Rebelde 1180 outlets as one station.
If there were more details known about the broadcasting situation from
Cuba, I would perhaps be more comfortable counting them as 2 stations.
That is a much tougher call with XEW/XEWB example, and I think I would
perhaps lean towards counting them both if I was 100% sure I had them both.

I'm not to sure how much of a hard rule could or should be made
regarding this, perhaps it would be best to just leave the decision up
to each individual DXer?

73,
Brandon

John H. Bryant wrote:
>
>
> For each of our own hobbies, each of us judges just what level of
> identification we must hear before we accept that we have Heard a
> station. However, when we start comparing catches or having awards
> programs or lists of distance records, etc, it becomes necessary to
> follow loosely understood common definitions of what is minimum
> identification of a station.
>
> To a degree, these definitions vary from one nation to another (some of
> the Scandinavians are VERY strict) and there are differences, too,
> between common practice in Domestic vs. International DXing.
>
> We've run into a situation concerning "identification by parallels"
> with the awards where we would appreciate some discussion.
>
> Using Japanese examples:
>
> *EXAMPLE A*: *873//774 kHz, NHK2
> *We find it very acceptable, generally, to declare that we have heard
> 873-JOGB, NHK's Program 2 outlet in Kumamoto, when we hear the same
> Japanese programming on 873 that we do on 774, the Program 2 outlet in
> Akita. No problem, all known references including NHK itself declare
> that there is only one Japanese station on 873 and it is in Kumamoto,
> always running NHK2.
>
> *EXAMPLE B: 1152//774 kHz, NHK2
> *When we find a situation where there are more than one NHK2 stations on
> a channel (1152 has two small stations) we simply log "1152-NHK2
> Synchros, Japan." No problem there, either and, /for our awards and
> records in Ultralighting/, we count that as "one station heard." If we
> want to log the stations individually, we can try for a local ID at
> 1319UTC and then know that we have heard one or even both stations
> so it is possible for the diligent and lucky DXer to eventually count
> two stations there.
>
> *EXAMPLE C: Shangdong News Synchros - 918 kHz.
> *We have a situation on the Shandong Peninsula on the north China coast
> where there are at least three, maybe four or five synchronous
> transmitters in use on one channel... and they are not well
> synchronized, so when conditions are decent, we can hear classic
> "synchro echos." It is a hoot-hoot-hoot! Since those transmitters
> apparently never carry either local IDs or local programming, we will
> always be referring to them only as synchros and counting them
> altogether as "one station heard" for awards, etc. No problem there, as
> far as I can see.
>
> *EXAMPLE D: 900-XEW//XEWB
> *Right now, when conditions are good, we can hear W Radio from BOTH
> stations simultaneously, with the stronger sound first and the classic
> synchro echo considerably weaker, but clearly there following. Every
> reference known on the planet shows XEW and XEWB simulcasting and that
> there are no other W Radio Grupo stations on 900. Can we log *both*
> stations as heard, as long as we have unmistakably heard the echo??? If
> not, how is this situation any different from Example A???
__._,_.___
Messages 
in this topic (2) 
Reply 
(via web post) | 

Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming

[Russ Edmunds]

I have had the same sort of situation from time to time with Cubans. The major 
difference there is that not having any completely credible info from that 
country and with multiple sources all differing, in at least two cases they've 
been logged as unid Cuban # 1 and unid Cuban # 2 both carrying the same network 
programming - once with R. Reloj; the other with R. Rebelde.

Thus I have no problem with # 4 either.

Russ Edmunds
Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL )
[15 mi NNW of Philadelphia]
40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id

FM: Yamaha T-80 & Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15'
AM: Modified Sony ICF 2010 barefoot


--- On Fri, 2/20/09, WALTER SALMANIW  wrote:

> From: WALTER SALMANIW 
> Subject: Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
> To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" 
> 
> Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 12:26 AM
> Hi, John.  Reporting in from San Diego tonight.  Your
> examples are excellent.  Personally, I have no problem with
> "presumed" loggings.  For example, if I hear a
> specific language on a TA station, I then look up the
> possibilities on the EMWG and deduce from it what the
> station "has to be".  I may be 99.5 or 100%
> certain of the ID.  Many stations never give any sort of
> ID, but based on the content one can easily deduce who they
> are.  Another method one can argue is using the exact
> frequency now available using programs like Spectravue and
> SDRs like Perseus to give us a pretty exact frequency. 
> Many stations are bang on some slightly off frequency, and
> these lists now exist (see MW offsets list).  One can
> "see" the carrier and be quite certain of the
> station.  A classic example of this is the Australian
> X-band station, Radio Brisvaani always on the high side of
> 1701 kHz.  Yet another ID method is with the various CBC
> low power retransmitters.  Overnight one hears their WRN
> programming.  Based on which program is being heard, you
> can narrow it down to which time zone is being heard, and
> from there hopefully to one or more stations.  Just a few
> ideas!  .Walt Salmaniw.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "John H. Bryant"
> 
> Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:10 pm
> Subject: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel
> Programming
> To: "irca-hard-core-dx.com"
> ,
> "ultralightdx-yahoogroups.com"
> 
> 
> > For each of our own hobbies, each of us judges just
> what level 
> > of 
> > identification we must hear before we accept that we
> have Heard 
> > a 
> > station. However, when we start comparing catches or
> having 
> > awards 
> > programs or lists of distance records, etc, it becomes
> necessary 
> > to 
> > follow loosely understood common definitions of what
> is minimum 
> > identification of a station.
> > 
> > To a degree, these definitions vary from one nation to
> another 
> > (some 
> > of the Scandinavians are VERY strict) and there are
> differences, 
> > too, 
> > between common practice in Domestic vs. International
> DXing.
> > 
> > We've run into a situation concerning
> "identification by 
> > parallels"  with the awards where we would
> appreciate some 
> > discussion.
> > Using Japanese examples:
> > 
> > EXAMPLE A: 873//774 kHz, NHK2
> > We find it very acceptable, generally, to declare that
> we have 
> > heard 
> > 873-JOGB, NHK's Program 2 outlet in Kumamoto, when
> we hear the 
> > same 
> > Japanese programming on 873 that we do on 774, the
> Program 2 
> > outlet 
> > in Akita.  No problem, all known references including
> NHK 
> > itself 
> > declare that there is only one Japanese station on 873
> and it is 
> > in 
> > Kumamoto, always running NHK2.
> > 
> > EXAMPLE B: 1152//774 kHz, NHK2
> > When we find a situation where there are more than one
> NHK2 
> > stations 
> > on a channel (1152 has two small stations) we simply
> log "1152-
> > NHK2 
> > Synchros, Japan." No problem there, either and,
> for our awards 
> > and 
> > records in Ultralighting, we count that as "one
> station 
> > heard."  If 
> > we want to log the stations individually, we can try
> for a local 
> > ID 
> > at 1319UTC and then know that we have heard one or
> even both 
> > stations so it is possible for the diligent and
> lucky DXer 
> > to 
> > eventually count two stations there.
> > 
> > EXAMPLE C: Shangdong News Synchros - 918 kHz.
> > We have a situation on the Shandong Peninsula on the
> north China 
> > coast where there are at least three, maybe four or
> five 
> > synchronous 
> > transmitters in use on one channel... and they are not
> well 
> > synchronized, so when conditions are decent, we can
> hear classic 
> > "synchro echos." It is a hoot-hoot-hoot! 
> Since those 
> > transmitters 
> > apparently never carry either local IDs or local
> programming, we 
> > will 
> > always be referring to them only as synchros and
> counting them 
> > altogether as "one station heard" for
> awards, etc. No problem 
> > there, 
> > as far as I can see.
> > 
> > EXAMPLE D: 900-XEW//XEWB
> > Right now

[IRCA] Arizona TP's for 2-20-09

[Bill Block]

Listened from 1330-1430 utc and conditions were not very good.  Only a few weak 
carriers and one with audio.

 

1557  from 1415-1421 utc I heard a man talking in English it was very weak and 
just above the noise level.  Who could this be?

 

Bill Block

Prescott Valley, AZ

Drake R8

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

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[IRCA] TP for 20 Feb from Victoria, BC

[Nick Hall-Patch]

Things continue to go downhill (is it April already?)  A quick check at 1420 
yielded the following, with another visit at 1455 and 1525UT yielding even less


pretty darn good audio (at least briefly): 

none


reasonable audio  at  times during the period (though often battling w/splash 
or noise):
594 JOAK  
828 JOBB  


not so reasonable audio, occasional words in splash or noise: 


774 JOUB
1575 only at 1525UT

Burbles in the splatter and noise:


693 JOAB //774 
747 JOIB //828 
972 HLCA likely
1134, could have been 2 signals
1566 later


Strongish het, no audio (either undermodulated or ravaged by splatter):  666, 
864, 1422 later


best wishes,

Nick


*
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada  

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Re: [IRCA] Arizona TP's for 2-20-09

[WALTER SALMANIW]

Bill, undoubtedly WYFR in Taiwan for English here.  Very often heard during 
decent TP openingsWalt.

- Original Message -
From: Bill Block 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:55 am
Subject: [IRCA] Arizona TP's for 2-20-09
To: IRCA Hard-Core 

> 
> Listened from 1330-1430 utc and conditions were not very 
> good.  Only a few weak carriers and one with audio.
> 
>  
> 
> 1557  from 1415-1421 utc I heard a man talking in English 
> it was very weak and just above the noise level.  Who could 
> this be?
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Block
> 
> Prescott Valley, AZ
> 
> Drake R8
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
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>  
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>  
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> 
> 
>  
> 
> _
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Re: [IRCA] Arizona TP's for 2-20-09

[Bill Block]

Walt

 

Thanks for the info on WYFR-1557 in Taiwan.  I have never had any audio from 
them and today it was the only audio.

 

Bill Block

Prescott Valley, AZ

Drake R8

 

 


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Re: [IRCA] Arizona TP's for 2-20-09

[Patrick Martin]

Great catch Bill! Congrats.

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] TP for 20 Feb from Victoria, BC

[Patrick Martin]

Condictions this morning were ather poor here on the coast too.
JOQR-1134 is still coming in at 1720 though, so the TPs are still
staying in late. HLAZ 1566 is weaker. 

73,

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming

[Patrick Martin]

Russ,

My issue with Cubans is that they change from Network to Network through
the years. But I don't have much of an issue these days as I hear few of
them.

73,

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] TP for 20 Feb from Arizona

[Nick Hall-Patch]

Did the English speaker have a deepish voice, and a slow "special English" way
of speaking, Bill?

That would be Taiwan's Family Radio for certain. 

Nick



**
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada

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Re: [IRCA] TP for 20 Feb from Arizona

[Bill Block]

Nick

 

Yes, the man in English was very slow and he had a deepish voice.  I was just 
about ready to turn the radio off as the sun was up and I am sure glad I did 
not turn it off!

 

Bill Block

Prescott Valley, AZ

Drake R8

 

 



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[IRCA] WWV Solar Report

[Ng1u]

:Product: Geophysical Alert Message wwv.txt
:Issued: 2009 Feb 20 2106 UTC
# Prepared by the US Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, Space Weather Prediction Center
#
#  Geophysical Alert Message
#
Solar-terrestrial indices for 20 February follow.
Solar flux 69 and estimated mid-latitude A-Index 3.
The mid-latitude K-index at 2100 UTC on 20 February was 1 (5 nT).
No space weather storms were observed for the past 24 hours.
No space weather storms are expected for the next 24 hours.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Trends -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Date 19   19   19   19   19   19   20   20   20   20   20   20   20   20   
UTC  0600 0900 1200 1500 1800 2100  0300 0600 0900 1200 1500 1800 2100 
SFlx 70   70   70   70   70   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   
A-in 22222211111113
K-in 00112001210011
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Re: [IRCA] UNID SPANISH Station 1090 Khz?????

[Robert S.Ross VA3SW]

Robert S.Ross VA3SW wrote:

Guys:

 Many thanks to ALL who responded to this Thread. A lot of Great Ideas 
on who this may have been were put forth!! I now have some good leads 
which may help me ID this if heard again...Hopefully I will hear it 
again!!


At this point...I just don't have enough to assume anything...so my 
only hope is that I hear it again...and get an ID...or mention of a 
city or something more concrete!!


It's just nice to know that I heard "Something" on 1090..that may be a 
little Exotic!!


I don't have recording Capabilities yet for my Ultralights...but I'm 
trying to solve that problem too.


In the meantime...Maybe someone else will hear this that may have a 
better reception than I did!!


I appreciate all the ideas and info put forth guys!!

73...ROB.

Robert S. Ross VA3SW
London, Ontario CANADA



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[IRCA] WWV Solar Report

[Ng1u]

:Product: Geophysical Alert Message wwv.txt
:Issued: 2009 Feb 21 0006 UTC
# Prepared by the US Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, Space Weather Prediction Center
#
#  Geophysical Alert Message
#
Solar-terrestrial indices for 20 February follow.
Solar flux 69 and mid-latitude A-index 3.
The mid-latitude K-index at  UTC on 21 February was 3 (21 nT).
No space weather storms were observed for the past 24 hours.
No space weather storms are expected for the next 24 hours.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Trends -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Date 19   19   19   19   19   20   20   20   20   20   20   20   20   21   
UTC  0900 1200 1500 1800 2100  0300 0600 0900 1200 1500 1800 2100  
SFlx 70   70   70   70   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   69   
A-in 22222111111134
K-in 01120012100113
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