[IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Martin]

The wind has died down to gusts to about 45 MPH, so I went out in the
backyard and took a quick check of the antennas and all look fine. I
pulled on the beverage and it's fine too. I expected them to come
through this as our peak gusts were only 67 MPH and they only lasted for
2-3 hours. When the weather improves, I will check to end of the
beverage too.

73,

Patrick 

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[rfoxwor1]

 Patrick Martin  wrote: 

>Thanks for the advice on the Cablecaster. We now have a Home Depot
> about 3 miles away and they may have the item too. I get a wire up into
> a tree, I have used long PVC poles. It works but takes a bit to ballance
> things. 

If you can use a "wrist rocket slingshot" device (i.e. not
prohibited by local ordinance} you can get a EZ-Hang to
cast lines high into/across trees. The slingshot throws a small
lead weight attached to monofilament, then you tie/pull back the
heavier support line. Price class $100 + s/hwww.ezhang.com
540-286-0176. The line is on a fishing reel feeder.

73 Bob


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Martin]

Bruce,

Our Pacific storm has been downgraded to gusts of 50 MPH tonight, so no
biggie. Those tree behind the house have been weakened by the hurricane
of last Dec. I just do not want to have deal with more trees down. The
antennas are anchored to the tree behind the house too.
   Thanks for the advice on the Cablecaster. We now have a Home Depot
about 3 miles away and they may have the item too. I get a wire up into
a tree, I have used long PVC poles. It works but takes a bit to ballance
things. 

73,

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[Bruce Portzer]

I have something similar.  Mine is called a Greenlee Cablecaster.  It 
looks like a cross between a dart gun and a fishing reel.  It was 
actually designed for electricians who need to pull wire long distances 
above suspended ceilings etc.  You aim it, pull the trigger, and it 
shoots a dart attached to 50 feet of monofilament line.  You then attach 
the wire to the dart, and reel it back in. 

I've had it for a couple of years but never actually used it to put out 
an antenna.  I did make a few practice runs at Grayland by aiming it 
over some small trees, and it worked quite well.


As I recall, I paid about $50 at Lowe's, but it should be available in 
other places.


Bruce

Patrick Griffith, N0NNK / WPE9HVW wrote:

Patrick I saw an antenna launcher for sale on e-bay a couple days ago.
It is designed to let you launch antenna wires over trees or for long
distances. It has a fishing reel attached to let you reel it back in. It
appears to be based on one of those tennis ball launchers for exercising
your dog.
  


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Martin]

Thanks Patrick. Now that is an idea! I will check it out.

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Griffith, N0NNK / WPE9HVW]

Patrick I saw an antenna launcher for sale on e-bay a couple days ago.
It is designed to let you launch antenna wires over trees or for long
distances. It has a fishing reel attached to let you reel it back in. It
appears to be based on one of those tennis ball launchers for exercising
your dog.

Patrick Griffith, CBT CBNT CRO
Westminster CO
http://community.webtv.net/AM-DXer/
http://community.webtv.net/N0NNK/

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Re: [IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Martin]

Hi Kevin,

I hope not too. Repairing the Beverage is the roughest one to do, since
500 feet of it is elevated.

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

KAZ, Thanks for the BoG tips which I'll try out either this coming 3-day 
weekend or the next at my parents' house in Pueblo West (aimed at 160 deg 
toward NE Mexico). The 935-foot BoG sounds sweet and should work well! The 
orientation of the 750' BoG in the Google Earth example at my parents' house 
put local 1230-KKPC perpendicular to the antenna. Curiously, 1230 was still 
strong off the side, but there were traces of other stations underneath. 
When the antenna was raised off the ground by a mere 2 feet, 1230 went WAY 
down in strength allowing easy reception of Phoenix and El Centro. Even when 
the antenna was on the ground the Tucson Int'l Airport TIS on 530 and Sky 
Harbor Int'l Airport (Phoenix) TIS were in nightly. I managed to log about a 
dozen NZ and Australia stations with it on the ground including a 1kW New 
Zealander on 1206kHz! 73.


Chris


From: "Neil Kazaross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Neil Kazaross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Mailing list for 
the International Radio Club of America
To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of 
America"

Subject: Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:19:53 -0500

BOG impedance tends to be around 270 ohms. I have used cable and a homemade 
5:1 xfmr, but usually just run the BOGs under my car/truck door directly to 
the phaser. I slight missmatch doesn't seem to harm them, noting they are 
receive antennas.


Termination thru 270 ohms seems to help the lower mid band..ie around 1050 
where the back end is nulled nicely, if using about 330 ft. This frequency 
seems to drop somewhat as one increases length. I've mess around with 
different values and also some series inductance to try to tweak for better 
back nulls, and to be honest, could never come close to being happy across 
the band. Long BOGs like 600 ft plus really have some good built in front 
to back anyhow since they are so lossy and the back end signals reflect of 
the far end, travelling lots further than the incoming wave does. I would 
not bother with termination for temporary BOGs and would use them as a 
Phased BOG System.


As an example, my northerly TA BOG setup in Grafton WI last Sept was 310 ft 
// 183 ft spaced about 2 ft apart and aimed 35 deg. I did a little test 
during the day and phased the ESPN local on 1510 out to my S/SSW and had 
good nulls all the way up to 1700, and acceptable nulls as low as 1250 
(great nulls down to somewhat below 1400) with out any retweaking. Trivial 
retweaking could easily re-establish a really deep null.


If you have longer BOGs and want to phase null lower freq pests then a 
length difference closer to 200 ft is best. As an example, 680 ft // 490 ft 
aimed 65 deg from WI was nice for knocking down WGN (somewhat off the back 
end) to allow Canaries and Portugal to be heard during super TA cx a year 
ago. The signals from TA land in the low band were enhanced (a bit higher S 
meter reading combined than each alone)  by phasing back end pests... ie 
put somewhat in phase while the back end was out of phase. But if I use 
that difference of 190 ft for the high end, the desired DX usually drops a 
bit in level..ie is also a bit out of phase.


Shorter BOGs have wider beam widths than do the longer ones, but even 300 
ft will be quite impressive on the high end of BCB. But don't worry about 
termination except for permanent installations and regardless, use a 
shorter // BOG to phase away back end QRM.


The Phased BOG System if unterminated will be useful off the back end if 
you phase away front end QRM, but in comparison to aiming right at the DX, 
the back end DX will be a few dB down, but often the directivity will be so 
good, you'll get good stuff anyhow.


73 KAZ



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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[Neil Kazaross]

BOG impedance tends to be around 270 ohms. I have used cable and a homemade 
5:1 xfmr, but usually just run the BOGs under my car/truck door directly to 
the phaser. I slight missmatch doesn't seem to harm them, noting they are 
receive antennas.


Termination thru 270 ohms seems to help the lower mid band..ie around 1050 
where the back end is nulled nicely, if using about 330 ft. This frequency 
seems to drop somewhat as one increases length. I've mess around with 
different values and also some series inductance to try to tweak for better 
back nulls, and to be honest, could never come close to being happy across 
the band. Long BOGs like 600 ft plus really have some good built in front to 
back anyhow since they are so lossy and the back end signals reflect of the 
far end, travelling lots further than the incoming wave does. I would not 
bother with termination for temporary BOGs and would use them as a Phased 
BOG System.


As an example, my northerly TA BOG setup in Grafton WI last Sept was 310 ft 
// 183 ft spaced about 2 ft apart and aimed 35 deg. I did a little test 
during the day and phased the ESPN local on 1510 out to my S/SSW and had 
good nulls all the way up to 1700, and acceptable nulls as low as 1250 
(great nulls down to somewhat below 1400) with out any retweaking. Trivial 
retweaking could easily re-establish a really deep null.


If you have longer BOGs and want to phase null lower freq pests then a 
length difference closer to 200 ft is best. As an example, 680 ft // 490 ft 
aimed 65 deg from WI was nice for knocking down WGN (somewhat off the back 
end) to allow Canaries and Portugal to be heard during super TA cx a year 
ago. The signals from TA land in the low band were enhanced (a bit higher S 
meter reading combined than each alone)  by phasing back end pests... ie put 
somewhat in phase while the back end was out of phase. But if I use that 
difference of 190 ft for the high end, the desired DX usually drops a bit in 
level..ie is also a bit out of phase.


Shorter BOGs have wider beam widths than do the longer ones, but even 300 ft 
will be quite impressive on the high end of BCB. But don't worry about 
termination except for permanent installations and regardless, use a shorter 
// BOG to phase away back end QRM.


The Phased BOG System if unterminated will be useful off the back end if you 
phase away front end QRM, but in comparison to aiming right at the DX, the 
back end DX will be a few dB down, but often the directivity will be so 
good, you'll get good stuff anyhow.


73 KAZ

- Original Message - 
From: "CHRIS KNIGHT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...



Neil,

Re. your terminated BoG, what is the typical value of termination 
resistance and how should this vary per wire length? Can you null anything 
with just this one antenna alone? Is having just one antenna terminated an 
"optimal" situation?


This has me thinking that I could place a temporary BoG system near this 
QTH meaning I would have to reel in the wire after every DX session, but 
leave the ground rods there. As far as matching the BoG wires to a Quantum 
Phaser, would that require a transformer and an additional ground rod at 
the feedpoint per wire? 73.


Chris
Fort Lupton, Colorado
http://sites.google.com/site/2008amloggings/


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

Neil,

Re. your terminated BoG, what is the typical value of termination resistance 
and how should this vary per wire length? Can you null anything with just 
this one antenna alone? Is having just one antenna terminated an "optimal" 
situation?


This has me thinking that I could place a temporary BoG system near this QTH 
meaning I would have to reel in the wire after every DX session, but leave 
the ground rods there. As far as matching the BoG wires to a Quantum Phaser, 
would that require a transformer and an additional ground rod at the 
feedpoint per wire? 73.


Chris
Fort Lupton, Colorado
http://sites.google.com/site/2008amloggings/


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

The Superloop seems like a great antenna that can give very sharp backside 
nulls compared to my flag. I had one up momentarily last spring prior to 
digging a garden (in the exact spot where it was). It was only 12' x 27' and 
didn't provide sufficient gain but almost did. The next antenna will be a 
replacement for the Superloop. Hoping to get some longer vertical elements 
on it for more gain. I believe AES sells 33' telescoping fiberglass (or 
nylon) support masts which is a good option. The flag now uses 4" by 4" by 
8' base masts with 2"x 2" and 1" x 2" above that get raise the thing to 18 
feet.


73.

Chris Knight
Fort Lupton, Colorado
http://sites.google.com/site/2008amloggings/

My westerly Flag is a really quiet antenna with a good directionality (it's 
pretty much as Mark Connelly describes in A DXer's Technical Guide, with 
the lower section about twelve feet off the ground), but the signal levels 
are low on the overseas signals.  A superloop enclosing a larger area gives 
more raw signal (which can make the difference between hearing audio and  
not doing so), but I haven't yet managed one with as good a front to back 
ratio as the Flag.


best wishes,

Nick


*
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada




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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[Nick Hall-Patch]

At 19:46 8/23/2008, you wrote:

>It's getting toward that time of year to put up some more antennas. So, I'm 
>looking for suggestions as to which antenna is the best one to put up in a 60 
>foot by 90 foot lot for AM BCB reception that will either outperform or 
>complement an existing 16' x 36' flag antenna (I have a Quantum Phaser phasing 
>unit). Suggestions from those who have tried pennants, flags, superloops, KAZ, 
>Ewes, K9AY, etc. would be much appreciated. Commercial antennas are also being 
>considered. Thanks and 73s!

My westerly Flag is a really quiet antenna with a good directionality (it's 
pretty much as Mark Connelly describes in A DXer's Technical Guide, with the 
lower section about twelve feet off the ground), but the signal levels are low 
on the overseas signals.  A superloop enclosing a larger area gives more raw 
signal (which can make the difference between hearing audio and  not doing so), 
but I haven't yet managed one with as good a front to back ratio as the Flag.

best wishes,

Nick




*
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada 

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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

Thanks Gil & KAZ for the information! Basically, any of the cardioid 
antennas (flag, pennant, KAZ, Ewe) perform about the same, but the Ewe 
eliminates the "trip" wire is what I'm understanding. The BoG system is 
absolutely ingenius! Unfotunately, there's no room for it at this QTH. The 
BoG would act like a Beverage in a way, as a wave antenna, so wire spacing 
would not be so much of an issue. The gain of a BoG would be far greater 
than any of the cardioid-type antennas. Being on the ground, the noise 
pickup should be reduced. This really is the best scenario other than 
Beverage antennas.


I'm currently using a flag antenna pointed roughly NW/SE with the feedbox on 
the NW side and variable termination (0 to 2k ohms) on the SE side. What if 
I installed a Ewe antenna in parallel 35 feet away from the flag, but with 
the termination and feedbox switched so that the cardioid pickup was the 
reverse of the flag? The coax from each antenna would go to the Quantum 
Phaser. How well would that work? I know Mark Connelly experimented with 
antennas spaced 50 meters apart that had the same pickup patterns. In that 
case phasing worked due to the antenna spacing. However, if they are much 
closer together than 50 meters, but opposite patterns would that be OK?


73. Chris

Chris Knight
Fort Lupton, Colorado


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[Neil Kazaross]

All the antennas mentioned are cardioid patterned antennas with nice wide 
back nulls but also a very wide main beam. You can expect the pickup at 
90/270 to be only about 5 1/2 to 5 3/4 dB down from the direction of max 
pickup. These are good antennas to null stations from one specific general 
direction. If you phase one of them vs a small antenna ( I used mini-BOGs) 
for the purpose of phase enhancing the back null, you can increase the back 
null depth from about 25 to over 50 dB and all but super locals can be 
eliminated if located near the back null.


A cardioid antenna is a very good complement to a loop antenna since the 
loop antenna with its figure 8 pattern is not suited to receiving stations 
that are close to 180 degrees apart which is where the cardioid antenna 
excels. Cardioid antenna also have pretty good low angle pickup.


EWE's are fine, although I have never used one. You will need a good ground 
connection and I'm not sure how easy that will be to achieve and maintain in 
CO. You may prefer a KAZ antenna or a Conti Superloop (bottom corner fed 
flag) and I believe, (never tested, but my KAZ's worked fine when there was 
so much sag in the bottom wire (return line as Gil called it) that it 
touched the ground) that both the KAZ and the Super Loop can work with that 
wire fully on the ground to avoid tripping.


A 10 x 40 ft KAZ may not have as much signal as many will want, so I'd make 
it a bit bigger. My initial KAZ (for test purposes) was a 10 x 40 and I had 
to DX with the R8A's preamp on, especially on the low end. Noting I logged 
rarely reported Costa Rica on 530 mixing with RVC here in IL, I have to say 
that I had enough gain, but still feel that most would prefer something like 
15 x 60. I used a 18.5 x 66.5 foot KAZ aimed south phased with a // mini-BOG 
of about 100 ft to absolutely phase eliminate Milwaukee pests to my north 
and had all signal I ever needed.


Once I discovered real BOGs here, I obsoleted that KAZ setups since I could, 
thru phasing get just about as good a back null, but had much less side 
pickup..ie often 20dB+ nulls near 90/270. The southward KAZ // mini-BOG were 
replaced by a terminated 292 ft BOG due south // an unterm one 155 ft due 
South (unterm bcuz I didn't want a ground rod in the middle of my back 
yard). As an example, I used to get WBIN from TN at night thru KXEL. WBIN is 
listed 4w at night, but even if they were running 1 kW day rig, I couldn't 
come close to doing this with the KAZ as I had too much KXEL to begin with 
prior to phasing. But for BOG's you really needn't think about them unless 
you have 100 yards available in a straight line.


So to summarize, by all means use a couple cardioid antennas for a couple 
different directions and for sure use PHASING to enhance back nulls very 
deeply and also to null other pests.


73 KAZ
- Original Message - 
From: "Gil Stacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America" 


Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...



Chris,

The advantage the ewe has over the others that you listed is that it
functions quite well without an elevated return line.  The rest require an
elevated return line (front yard trip wire).  I have tried a return line 
on

a ewe connecting the ground rods, but didn't notice any difference in
performance.  The downside of these antennas is a fat cardoid pattern with
poor side rejection.  However, where space is a consideration, they are 
hard
to beat, and are considerably more quiet and directional than a random 
wire.


73 Gil
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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[Gil Stacy]

Chris,

The advantage the ewe has over the others that you listed is that it
functions quite well without an elevated return line.  The rest require an
elevated return line (front yard trip wire).  I have tried a return line on
a ewe connecting the ground rods, but didn't notice any difference in
performance.  The downside of these antennas is a fat cardoid pattern with
poor side rejection.  However, where space is a consideration, they are hard
to beat, and are considerably more quiet and directional than a random wire.

73 Gil
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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

Patrick,

Thanks for the suggestions! The EWE would be a good one for the front yard 
as my daughter has a little Pekinese dog in the backyard who likes to help 
out with ground conductivity (if you know what I mean). A 10' x 40' KAZ 
antenna would conform pretty nicely. I don't know much about the K9AY. Was 
thinking about a pennant since Mark Connelly favorably reviewed that once. 
Flags and loops take up a lot of area, but I'm not opposed to them as long 
as the neighbors aren't.


73. Chris

Chris Knight
Fort Lupton, Colorado
http://sites.google.com/site/2008amloggings/


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[Patrick Martin]

Chris,

You may try a K9AY, KAZ, or a EWE. My favorite is the EWE as you may
know, but you do need a good ground for it. K9AY or KAZs would be better
with a poorer ground.  I had a K9AY for a couple seasons and logged two
new Filipinos. One was 1 KW. 

Patrick

Patrick Martin
KGED QSL Manager


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[IRCA] Antennas for receiving...

[CHRIS KNIGHT]

It's getting toward that time of year to put up some more antennas. So, I'm 
looking for suggestions as to which antenna is the best one to put up in a 
60 foot by 90 foot lot for AM BCB reception that will either outperform or 
complement an existing 16' x 36' flag antenna (I have a Quantum Phaser 
phasing unit). Suggestions from those who have tried pennants, flags, 
superloops, KAZ, Ewes, K9AY, etc. would be much appreciated. Commercial 
antennas are also being considered. Thanks and 73s!


Chris Knight
Fort Lupton, Colorado
http://sites.google.com/site/2008amloggings/


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Re: [IRCA] Antennas!

[kj8o]

Nice photos, Bob, I wonder how upset my neighbors would be if I put one of 
those up in the back yard, hi, hi. I would have to scan it, but I have a 
picture of the Deutsche Telekom antenna farm at Jülich and that is quite 
impressive as well.

73 Joe


On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT), Bob Coomler wrote
> With apologies, this is shortwave, but anyone that
> messes with radios has to be impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80m high, 87m wide, 6-26 MHz.


-- 73 de Joe Miller, KJ8O, Troy, MI -- Grid EN82 --
-- WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com) --

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[IRCA] Antennas!

[Bob Coomler]

With apologies, this is shortwave, but anyone that
messes with radios has to be impressed.




80m high, 87m wide, 6-26 MHz.

Bob Coomler
Cloverdale, CA

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[IRCA] Antennas

[Patrick Martin]

Greetings everyone,

Well the two EWE's are back up and going. I was up the tree in the
backyard 3 times yesterday. Then in the afternoon inbetween service
calls, I got the first 450-500 feet of the Eastern beverage up. But what
a job, more ladders and trees to climb. One thing I have had trouble
with is we lost so many trees and limbs that my supports are amost gone.
I managed to find enough places to support the beverage, but not easy.
Of the 5 trees I had behind my house, I have 3 left and thoe are
probably on borrowed time especially if we continue to get get more of
these hurricane force winds Not an easy task to deal with. Plus the farm
next door is moving their gate, so up over the hill I will have to put
supports of 10-15 feet so they can get the farm equip back and forth.
That is not going to help the directivity of the beverage I am sure, but
not much else I can do, if I want to keep it. Then I also have the job
to rebuilding the rest of the beverage on the far side of the hill, as
it is broken and torn to bits, supports broken, wire snapped in many
places. Not fun to say the least, at least another half a day of work
there. 
This morning as I type this, I am in quite a bit of pain, going up and
down the ladders, tree climbling, and all of the stretching. I used
muscles I have not used in years probably. Oh yes, in the middle of all
this, I did get a new porch light put on that took 20 minutes, so at
least I have that back too.I guess I should be happy at nearly 59 I can
still do all of this, as I just found out a local locksmith died last
Sunday at 58, the same age I am.

73,

Patrick 

Patrick Martin
KAVT Reception Manager

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[IRCA] Antennas & home owners associations

[vroomski]

Les,

I have to live under the laws of the homeowners association  They allow one 
antenna outside, with the homeowners associations approval.  I use the High 
Performance Active Whip and the H-800 active antenna.  I have the High 
Performance Active Whip mounted on a 18' window washers pole.  I drove a ground 
rod about 3' into the ground and slipped a 4' pvc pipe onto the portion of the 
ground rod that was not driven into the ground.  The mast slips into the pvc 
pipe and sits on the ground rod.  I get a couple extra feet in height by doing 
this.   I set the antenna up at night and take it down when I'm through with 
it.  A small loop could also be used with this type of mast.  No complaints in 
the couple of years doing this.  It can be done, not a lot of fun taking them 
down in the rain or cold weather.  

With the H-800 only being about 20" long, I have attached it to the top a 20' 
tree in the front yard.  For Christmas a lighted Star was attached to the top 
of the tree.  In January when the star was removed it was replaced the with 
H-800.   Strapped the antenna to a bamboo pole and plastic tied the pole to the 
tree.  The tree has no leaves this time of the year, it can be seen if you 
really look carefully.  When the leaves return it will be covered and hard to 
see.  When we bought this house I was not Dxing, now I wish we would have 
bought a house on about 5 acres. (2.2 hectares) Good luck Les with your 
antennas.  

Dennis,
Vancouver, WA
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