Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
I have had the same sort of situation from time to time with Cubans. The major difference there is that not having any completely credible info from that country and with multiple sources all differing, in at least two cases they've been logged as unid Cuban # 1 and unid Cuban # 2 both carrying the same network programming - once with R. Reloj; the other with R. Rebelde. Thus I have no problem with # 4 either. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id wb2...@yahoo.com FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Modified Sony ICF 2010 barefoot --- On Fri, 2/20/09, WALTER SALMANIW salma...@shaw.ca wrote: From: WALTER SALMANIW salma...@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 12:26 AM Hi, John. Reporting in from San Diego tonight. Your examples are excellent. Personally, I have no problem with presumed loggings. For example, if I hear a specific language on a TA station, I then look up the possibilities on the EMWG and deduce from it what the station has to be. I may be 99.5 or 100% certain of the ID. Many stations never give any sort of ID, but based on the content one can easily deduce who they are. Another method one can argue is using the exact frequency now available using programs like Spectravue and SDRs like Perseus to give us a pretty exact frequency. Many stations are bang on some slightly off frequency, and these lists now exist (see MW offsets list). One can see the carrier and be quite certain of the station. A classic example of this is the Australian X-band station, Radio Brisvaani always on the high side of 1701 kHz. Yet another ID method is with the various CBC low power retransmitters. Overnight one hears their WRN programming. Based on which program is being heard, you can narrow it down to which time zone is being heard, and from there hopefully to one or more stations. Just a few ideas! .Walt Salmaniw. - Original Message - From: John H. Bryant bjohnor...@rockisland.com Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming To: irca-hard-core-dx.com irca@hard-core-dx.com, ultralightdx-yahoogroups.com ultraligh...@yahoogroups.com For each of our own hobbies, each of us judges just what level of identification we must hear before we accept that we have Heard a station. However, when we start comparing catches or having awards programs or lists of distance records, etc, it becomes necessary to follow loosely understood common definitions of what is minimum identification of a station. To a degree, these definitions vary from one nation to another (some of the Scandinavians are VERY strict) and there are differences, too, between common practice in Domestic vs. International DXing. We've run into a situation concerning identification by parallels with the awards where we would appreciate some discussion. Using Japanese examples: EXAMPLE A: 873//774 kHz, NHK2 We find it very acceptable, generally, to declare that we have heard 873-JOGB, NHK's Program 2 outlet in Kumamoto, when we hear the same Japanese programming on 873 that we do on 774, the Program 2 outlet in Akita. No problem, all known references including NHK itself declare that there is only one Japanese station on 873 and it is in Kumamoto, always running NHK2. EXAMPLE B: 1152//774 kHz, NHK2 When we find a situation where there are more than one NHK2 stations on a channel (1152 has two small stations) we simply log 1152- NHK2 Synchros, Japan. No problem there, either and, for our awards and records in Ultralighting, we count that as one station heard. If we want to log the stations individually, we can try for a local ID at 1319UTC and then know that we have heard one or even both stations so it is possible for the diligent and lucky DXer to eventually count two stations there. EXAMPLE C: Shangdong News Synchros - 918 kHz. We have a situation on the Shandong Peninsula on the north China coast where there are at least three, maybe four or five synchronous transmitters in use on one channel... and they are not well synchronized, so when conditions are decent, we can hear classic synchro echos. It is a hoot-hoot-hoot! Since those transmitters apparently never carry either local IDs or local programming, we will always be referring to them only as synchros and counting them altogether as one station heard for awards, etc. No problem there, as far as I can see. EXAMPLE D: 900-XEW//XEWB Right now, when conditions are good, we can hear W Radio from BOTH stations
Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
Russ, My issue with Cubans is that they change from Network to Network through the years. But I don't have much of an issue these days as I hear few of them. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
[IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
For each of our own hobbies, each of us judges just what level of identification we must hear before we accept that we have Heard a station. However, when we start comparing catches or having awards programs or lists of distance records, etc, it becomes necessary to follow loosely understood common definitions of what is minimum identification of a station. To a degree, these definitions vary from one nation to another (some of the Scandinavians are VERY strict) and there are differences, too, between common practice in Domestic vs. International DXing. We've run into a situation concerning identification by parallels with the awards where we would appreciate some discussion. Using Japanese examples: EXAMPLE A: 873//774 kHz, NHK2 We find it very acceptable, generally, to declare that we have heard 873-JOGB, NHK's Program 2 outlet in Kumamoto, when we hear the same Japanese programming on 873 that we do on 774, the Program 2 outlet in Akita. No problem, all known references including NHK itself declare that there is only one Japanese station on 873 and it is in Kumamoto, always running NHK2. EXAMPLE B: 1152//774 kHz, NHK2 When we find a situation where there are more than one NHK2 stations on a channel (1152 has two small stations) we simply log 1152-NHK2 Synchros, Japan. No problem there, either and, for our awards and records in Ultralighting, we count that as one station heard. If we want to log the stations individually, we can try for a local ID at 1319UTC and then know that we have heard one or even both stations so it is possible for the diligent and lucky DXer to eventually count two stations there. EXAMPLE C: Shangdong News Synchros - 918 kHz. We have a situation on the Shandong Peninsula on the north China coast where there are at least three, maybe four or five synchronous transmitters in use on one channel... and they are not well synchronized, so when conditions are decent, we can hear classic synchro echos. It is a hoot-hoot-hoot! Since those transmitters apparently never carry either local IDs or local programming, we will always be referring to them only as synchros and counting them altogether as one station heard for awards, etc. No problem there, as far as I can see. EXAMPLE D: 900-XEW//XEWB Right now, when conditions are good, we can hear W Radio from BOTH stations simultaneously, with the stronger sound first and the classic synchro echo considerably weaker, but clearly there following. Every reference known on the planet shows XEW and XEWB simulcasting and that there are no other W Radio Grupo stations on 900. Can we log both stations as heard, as long as we have unmistakably heard the echo??? If not, how is this situation any different from Example A??? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! John B. Stillwater, OK, USA Rcvrs: Hotrodded NRD-535, Slider e100's Antennas: Wellbrook Phased Array ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
John, I totally agree with your observations on IDing a station. I could not have said it better. Another example, It gets a bit tricky when trying to ID the HBC stations on 864 khz when there are several. I have IDed sometimes 2 or 3 IDing at the same time. But when there is only one NHK station on a channel, it is easy. However, before sending for a QSL, I always get that local ID. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming
Hi, John. Reporting in from San Diego tonight. Your examples are excellent. Personally, I have no problem with presumed loggings. For example, if I hear a specific language on a TA station, I then look up the possibilities on the EMWG and deduce from it what the station has to be. I may be 99.5 or 100% certain of the ID. Many stations never give any sort of ID, but based on the content one can easily deduce who they are. Another method one can argue is using the exact frequency now available using programs like Spectravue and SDRs like Perseus to give us a pretty exact frequency. Many stations are bang on some slightly off frequency, and these lists now exist (see MW offsets list). One can see the carrier and be quite certain of the station. A classic example of this is the Australian X-band station, Radio Brisvaani always on the high side of 1701 kHz. Yet another ID method is with the various CBC low power retransmitters. Overnight one hears their WRN programming. Based on which program is being heard, you can narrow it down to which time zone is being heard, and from there hopefully to one or more stations. Just a few ideas! .Walt Salmaniw. - Original Message - From: John H. Bryant bjohnor...@rockisland.com Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:10 pm Subject: [IRCA] Identifying a Station by Parallel Programming To: irca-hard-core-dx.com irca@hard-core-dx.com, ultralightdx-yahoogroups.com ultraligh...@yahoogroups.com For each of our own hobbies, each of us judges just what level of identification we must hear before we accept that we have Heard a station. However, when we start comparing catches or having awards programs or lists of distance records, etc, it becomes necessary to follow loosely understood common definitions of what is minimum identification of a station. To a degree, these definitions vary from one nation to another (some of the Scandinavians are VERY strict) and there are differences, too, between common practice in Domestic vs. International DXing. We've run into a situation concerning identification by parallels with the awards where we would appreciate some discussion. Using Japanese examples: EXAMPLE A: 873//774 kHz, NHK2 We find it very acceptable, generally, to declare that we have heard 873-JOGB, NHK's Program 2 outlet in Kumamoto, when we hear the same Japanese programming on 873 that we do on 774, the Program 2 outlet in Akita. No problem, all known references including NHK itself declare that there is only one Japanese station on 873 and it is in Kumamoto, always running NHK2. EXAMPLE B: 1152//774 kHz, NHK2 When we find a situation where there are more than one NHK2 stations on a channel (1152 has two small stations) we simply log 1152- NHK2 Synchros, Japan. No problem there, either and, for our awards and records in Ultralighting, we count that as one station heard. If we want to log the stations individually, we can try for a local ID at 1319UTC and then know that we have heard one or even both stations so it is possible for the diligent and lucky DXer to eventually count two stations there. EXAMPLE C: Shangdong News Synchros - 918 kHz. We have a situation on the Shandong Peninsula on the north China coast where there are at least three, maybe four or five synchronous transmitters in use on one channel... and they are not well synchronized, so when conditions are decent, we can hear classic synchro echos. It is a hoot-hoot-hoot! Since those transmitters apparently never carry either local IDs or local programming, we will always be referring to them only as synchros and counting them altogether as one station heard for awards, etc. No problem there, as far as I can see. EXAMPLE D: 900-XEW//XEWB Right now, when conditions are good, we can hear W Radio from BOTH stations simultaneously, with the stronger sound first and the classic synchro echo considerably weaker, but clearly there following. Every reference known on the planet shows XEW and XEWB simulcasting and that there are no other W Radio Grupo stations on 900. Can we log both stations as heard, as long as we have unmistakably heard the echo??? If not, how is this situation any different from Example A??? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! John B. Stillwater, OK, USA Rcvrs: Hotrodded NRD-535, Slider e100's Antennas: Wellbrook Phased Array ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
