Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
There is a VHF DX'er that ran a 6m ham station from one in Louisiana. IIRC he had a ball! 73, Dave in Indy -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 13:48:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Coomler w6...@yahoo.com To: IRCA@hard-core-dx.com Subject: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations Message-ID: 121088.44599...@web37108.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know the edge is off the current season, but here are some possibilities for your next DX season's dining and dancing enjoyment: http://www.oddinns.com/index.php/pages/fire-lookout.html A Google search will bring up many government sites, but this is a good summary. Would be great for a MW and FM ultralight expedition. Bob Coomler ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Stockton is a few feet lower, there's only one and it usually smells bad. Stockton is the only place I know of that makes Oakland look good. Mike On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Derek Vincent eargaz...@aol.com wrote: Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Let's not argue about this fellows. Those two great centers of California population are close enough that you can count them as one! Oddly, I've made several trips to Stockton in the last couple years and found the natives quite friendly restaurants that serve a fine meal. Didn't see even one Pandoran the whole visit Don K. S.F. CA Derek Vincent wrote: Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
That was in reference to the armpit topic. After hitting the send button, I was thinking that nobody knew what I was thinking AND its probably best to let my commentary on Stockton stop there before it hits the gutter. Mike On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.comwrote: Stockton is a few feet lower, there's only one and it usually smells bad. Stockton is the only place I know of that makes Oakland look good. Mike On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Derek Vincent eargaz...@aol.com wrote: Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
To add to what Mike had to say on the subject. In mid February 1988 we had a small family excursion to Rockaway Beach on the southside of Pacifica CA. I'd brought my portable radio with me and around 3pm I started to get sunset skip on the beach. I upped my log on Oregon stations by a bunch, they were all over the place. We packed up and left around 4:30 as it was getting bloody cold by then. As we pulled out of the beach parking lot and onto Cal Hwy 1 the skip signals diminished and the locals took over. On the other hand, while dxing from the Sacramento area I had (at times) fantastic reception from Hawaii, Alaska, Tonga, Australia/N.Z. especially Japan. Even better reception from Asians was logged from S.F. in the late 70s and I was 25 blocks from the beach and on the leeside of a hill (that once had been a dune). Oddly I am now located about 15 blocks from the beach and even if all my noises would disappear I'd not have anywhere near the reception I had from further out in 76-78. Don K. Mike Hawkins wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
You didn't go downtown after dark, did you? On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Donald K. Kaskey kaskeyfam...@yahoo.comwrote: Let's not argue about this fellows. Those two great centers of California population are close enough that you can count them as one! Oddly, I've made several trips to Stockton in the last couple years and found the natives quite friendly restaurants that serve a fine meal. Didn't see even one Pandoran the whole visit Don K. S.F. CA Derek Vincent wrote: Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information:
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Now that I don't have to go there for work anymore I don't even go to downtown San Francisco if I can help it. Don Mike Hawkins wrote: You didn't go downtown after dark, did you? On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Donald K. Kaskey kaskeyfam...@yahoo.comwrote: Let's not argue about this fellows. Those two great centers of California population are close enough that you can count them as one! Oddly, I've made several trips to Stockton in the last couple years and found the natives quite friendly restaurants that serve a fine meal. Didn't see even one Pandoran the whole visit Don K. S.F. CA Derek Vincent wrote: Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Yes, how true. Inland a mile or so, KCIS-630-Edmonds WA is dominant, drive out along the ocean, KWRO-630-Coquille OR takes over the channel and they are further. This is on a car radio. Here off the SW EWE, KWRO is dominant, but not on the van radio. I am less than a mile from the Pacific. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside Oregon Come visit us for the 2010 IRCA convention held Sept 24-26 at the Inn At Seaside. ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Manteca the armpit??? No no. That would be Stockton : ) Thank you. Derek Vincent Vmedia360...everywhere On May 4, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mike Hawkins michael.d.hawk...@gmail.com wrote: I am far from technical on the subject, but I can agree with the dampening effect. I went up to Don Kaskey's house a few times and we listened on car radio and on my Grundig at the beach in San Francisco. I drove the Great Highway south after leaving and had strong signals on several TP frequencies. When I turned inland, the signals dropped off dramatically. Many were gone by the time I was 3 miles inland, though the stronger ones lasted until I was 10 miles in, and the strongest continued on. One night in 1980/1981, I went out to an artichoke patch (I think...it was dark and rainy) north of Santa Cruz with Doug Nyholm (remember him?) and we strung out 1200-1300 foot of longwire on stakes attached to his Yaesu. We had reasonable audio on 30-35 TPs from Australia/New Zealand/Fiji. I had never heard most of them before or after that night. There have been some good exceptions to the rule though...I used to pull in a AM station from Malaysia with some regularity when I lived in Manteca CA, which is politely referred to as the armpit of California. I also had armchair quality on a Central Chinese station on 1525 kHz way back when. Mike Hawkins On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org wrote: At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject). Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
[IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
I know the edge is off the current season, but here are some possibilities for your next DX season's dining and dancing enjoyment: http://www.oddinns.com/index.php/pages/fire-lookout.html A Google search will bring up many government sites, but this is a good summary. Would be great for a MW and FM ultralight expedition. Bob Coomler ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Bob, Some great potential sites!!! I like the Rogue River one in Oregon. Close enough to the ocean to dx TPs as well. Don Bob Coomler wrote: I know the edge is off the current season, but here are some possibilities for your next DX season's dining and dancing enjoyment: http://www.oddinns.com/index.php/pages/fire-lookout.html A Google search will bring up many government sites, but this is a good summary. Would be great for a MW and FM ultralight expedition. Bob Coomler ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Kevin S Bainbridge Island, WA Bob, Some great potential sites!!! I like the Rogue River one in Oregon. Close enough to the ocean to dx TPs as well. Don Bob Coomler wrote: I know the edge is off the current season, but here are some possibilities for your next DX season's dining and dancing enjoyment: http://www.oddinns.com/index.php/pages/fire-lookout.html A Google search will bring up many government sites, but this is a good summary. Would be great for a MW and FM ultralight expedition. Bob Coomler ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
[IRCA] Intriguing DXing Locations
Interesting...back in 2007, the wife and I took a cruise from Tampa, Florida to Venice, Italy. I had my Sony pretty good portable along. In the middle of the Atlantic...I heard NOTHING. However, it was great listening up until hitting the midpoint and after passing the midpoint. Now, if I'd had my Drake R8B along... ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
Yep! Even a few hundred meters makes a big difference. Try for yourself sometime. Tune in, and then drive away from the coast. Very remarkable differences..Walt - Original Message - From: Kevin S sa...@sounddsl.com Date: Monday, May 3, 2010 11:05 pm Subject: Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Kevin S Bainbridge Island, WA Bob, Some great potential sites!!! I like the Rogue River one in Oregon. Close enough to the ocean to dx TPs as well. Don Bob Coomler wrote: I know the edge is off the current season, but here are some possibilities for your next DX season's dining and dancing enjoyment: http://www.oddinns.com/index.php/pages/fire-lookout.html A Google search will bring up many government sites, but this is a good summary. Would be great for a MW and FM ultralight expedition. Bob Coomler ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Intriguing DXing locations
At 23:04 5/3/2010, you wrote: Those would indeed be great, and away from all forms of RF noise. I was also wondering how close they were to the ocean; my understanding is that going even a few hundred yards or so inland puts a significant damper on TA/TP signals - can any TA/TP veterans confirm/correct this? Hi Kevin, I suspect that the amount of loss is somewhat dependent on the ground conductivity of the inshore land, the frequency of the signal, and the arrival angle of the signals, but only really have data for the second of those suppositions. The others are based on the supposition that a low arrival angle signal from over the ocean will lose strength more slowly over highly conductive land (salt marsh) compared with poorly conductive land (rock) the further it travels. A high arrival angle signal, on the other hand, presumably will not be as affected by ground conductivity so one might assume it will be nearly as strong inland as at the shore. As for the second supposition, a few years ago, John Bryant and I did some simultaneous signal strength recordings at the shore and points up to around two kilometers inland at Grayland, and found that the loss was highest for higher frequency signals, and varied from 1 to 12 dB depending on how far inland one was (but signals were almost always best right at the beach). It didn't seem to be a linear decay, rather there seemed to be reinforcements and cancellations of signals at different points, so one might luck out and hit a pretty good spot further inland, so one shouldn't out of hand reject a site a little ways inland. Randy Seaver wrote a good article years ago about this, entitled Sea Gain which is IRCA reprint T062, and some of our results did seem to have some theoretical underpinnings (Randy had found some academic work on the subject).Unfortunately, both John and I were pretty busy at the time, and never really finalized any conclusions on the subje! ctmore study is needed (I'm sure Mike of the Grayland motel would be OK with several weeks of rental from DX researchers.). best wishes, Nick * Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
