[IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 Sent from my iPad ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
I wonder what the results would be if they had tried this in a high-noise situation ?? Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Dennis Gibson wrote: > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is moving to streaming. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: wb6...@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin. Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > moving to streaming. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > Sent from my iPad > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of desire so far. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin. Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > moving to streaming. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > Sent from my iPad > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
There are many parallels to AM IBOC in the U.S. and DRM on shortwave. Neither have ‘revitalized’ the medium though they can produce remarkable reception under the right conditions at the expense of other services nearby. It seems to me counter-productive to keep ‘fighting the flow of technology’ to keep pushing these old spectrums to do things they’re not meant to. It may well be time to put the red wrist band on them, indicating ‘Do Not Resuscitate,' and allow them find their own way into history. --- > On Apr 29, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Chuck Hutton wrote: > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of > desire so far. > > Chuck > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > cost for stations to do so > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > indeed likely be the final > nail in the coffin. > > Russ Edmunds > 15 mi NW Phila > Grid FN20id > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > >> My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All >> digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is >> moving to streaming. >> >> Patrick Martin >> Seaside OR >> KGED QSL Manager >> >>> From: wb6...@gmail.com >>> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 >>> To: irca@hard-core-dx.com >>> Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test >> Results >>> >>> >> http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> ___ >>> IRCA mailing list >>> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >>> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >>> >>> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention >>> Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. >>> Registration info: >>> http://www.nrcdxas.org >>> >>> >>> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >>> >>> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >>> >>> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com >>> >> >> ___ >> IRCA mailing list >> IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >> http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca >> >> Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention >> Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. >> Registration info: >> http://www.nrcdxas.org >> >> >> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the >> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers >> >> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org >> >> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com >> >> > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalamp
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Hi Chuck, More robust? I'll grant that. But in the demonstrations done here, I didn't find the sound to be better. The same? Yes. Better, no. Unless those tests weren't done in a way that would show the potential of all-digital IBOC. -- Rick -Original Message- From: IRCA [mailto:irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hutton Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:34 AM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of desire so far. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin. Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more > is moving to streaming. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital > -am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > Sent from my iPad > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, > > September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, > September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http:
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Rick: Hybrid AM IBOC uses a 20 kv/s codec. In testing, about half of listeners said they would discontinue listening to it. All digital IBOC AM can use a 40 or 60 kb/s codec. The quality is distinctly better for the 60 kb/s coder: only 1 in 7 listeners would discontinue listening to it. There's a sharp increase in perceived quality at 48 jb/s and up. I don't know what mode (40 or 60 kb/s) was used for the KRKO tests. I'm not sure they revealed that info but I no longer have any professional ties to that arena so didn't read every word. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Rick Lewis Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 6:25 PM To: 'Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America' Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Hi Chuck, More robust? I'll grant that. But in the demonstrations done here, I didn't find the sound to be better. The same? Yes. Better, no. Unless those tests weren't done in a way that would show the potential of all-digital IBOC. -- Rick -Original Message- From: IRCA [mailto:irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hutton Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 5:34 AM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of desire so far. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the cost for stations to do so coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would indeed likely be the final nail in the coffin. Russ Edmunds 15 mi NW Phila Grid FN20id AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more > is moving to streaming. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital > -am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > Sent from my iPad > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, > > September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, > September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and d
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Chuck, I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that hates digital audio, especially IBOC. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: charle...@msn.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +0000 > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of > desire so far. > > Chuck > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > cost for stations to do so > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > indeed likely be the final > nail in the coffin. > > Russ Edmunds > 15 mi NW Phila > Grid FN20id > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > > moving to streaming. > > > > Patrick Martin > > Seaside OR > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > ___ > > > IRCA mailing list > > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > > Registration info: > > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > > > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel sp
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Russ, I totally agree. If AM goes completely digital, you might as well shut off the transmitters. No one is listening and no one cares. Except for a few automobiles , I am the only one around here with an IBOC radio. The only reason I have the Sony, is a friend gave it to me. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:45:42 -0400 > From: wb2...@gmail.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > cost for stations to do so > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > indeed likely be the final > nail in the coffin. > > Russ Edmunds > 15 mi NW Phila > Grid FN20id > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > > moving to streaming. > > > > Patrick Martin > > Seaside OR > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > ___ > > > IRCA mailing list > > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > > Registration info: > > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > > > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > > ___ > IRCA mailing list > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > Registration info: > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original > contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its > editors, publishing staff, or officers > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. Registration info: http://www.nrcdxas.org Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Patrick: Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC audio quality report. And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if they have an agenda. As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM To: IRCA Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Chuck, I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that hates digital audio, especially IBOC. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: charle...@msn.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 +0000 > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of > desire so far. > > Chuck > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > cost for stations to do so > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > indeed likely be the final > nail in the coffin. > > Russ Edmunds > 15 mi NW Phila > Grid FN20id > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > > moving to streaming. > > > > Patrick Martin > > Seaside OR > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > ___ > > > IRCA mailing list > > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > > Registration info: > > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > > > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > > > > ___ > > IRCA mailing list > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > > Be sure to register now for the Joint DX Convention > > Kansas City, September 9 to 11. Hotel space is filling up. > > Registration info: > > http://www.nrcdxas.org > > > > > > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > > original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the > > IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > > To Post
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Chuck, Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, if played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that affects me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the streaming audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: charle...@msn.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 +0000 > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Patrick: > > Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why > professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old > and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC > audio quality report. > > And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a > lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if > they have an agenda. > > As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the > hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most > streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below > analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels. > > Chuck > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM > To: IRCA > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results > > Chuck, > > I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that > hates digital audio, especially IBOC. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: charle...@msn.com > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 + > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC > > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more > > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does > > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of > > desire so far. > > > > Chuck > > > > ________________ > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > > cost for stations to do so > > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > > indeed likely be the final > > nail in the coffin. > > > > Russ Edmunds > > 15 mi NW Phila > > Grid FN20id > > > > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > > > > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > > > moving to streaming. > > > > > > Patrick Martin > > > Seaside OR > > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > > Subject: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > > Results > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.radiomagonline.com/industry/0003/layer-announces-alldigital-am-cochannel-lab-test-results/37709 > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > ___ > > > > IRCA mailing list > > > > IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > > > > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > &
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
I'll put their opinions in the trash can where they belong, as there is no such thing as a "digital harmonic" and - assuming they mean simply "harmonic", harmonics are not the issue with digital codecs. It's rather the artifacts of the compression that cause the odd swirls, muffling and artificial sound. None of that has anything to do with harmonics. Chuck From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 4:53 AM To: IRCA Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results Chuck, Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, if played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that affects me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the streaming audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: charle...@msn.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 + > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > Patrick: > > Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's why > professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, old > and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the IBOC > audio quality report. > > And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a > lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if > they have an agenda. > > As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the > hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most > streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below > analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming channels. > > Chuck > > ________ > From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM > To: IRCA > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results > > Chuck, > > I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that > hates digital audio, especially IBOC. > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: charle...@msn.com > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 + > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid IBOC > > and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to spark more > > interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the FCC does > > something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given their lack of > > desire so far. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > > cost for stations to do so > > coupled with the lack of interest already and the lack of receivers would > > indeed likely be the final > > nail in the coffin. > > > > Russ Edmunds > > 15 mi NW Phila > > Grid FN20id > > > > > > AM: Modified Sony ICF2010's (2) barefoot w/whip > > FM: Yamaha T-80 & T-85, each w/ Conrad RDS Decoder; > > Onkyo T-450RDS; Tecsun PL-310 ( 2); > > modified Sony ICF2010 w/APS9B @ 15'; > > Grundig G8 w/whip; modified Sony ICF2010 w/whip > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Patrick Martin wrote: > > > > > My take on this, is total suicide of AM Radio, if they move to All > > > digital. Few HD radios available if someone wanted to buy one and more is > > > moving to streaming. > > > > > > Patrick Martin > > > Seaside OR > > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > > > From: wb6...@gmail.com > > > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:11:31 -0700 > > > > To:
Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results
Artifacts or Harmonics, whatever their reasoning, they are two very gifted CEs and it is their ears, not mine. One referred to them as digital harmonics and they bother his ears, where analog doesn't. Apparently he has quite a high range that most do not have. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager > From: charle...@msn.com > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 05:29:19 + > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > Results > > I'll put their opinions in the trash can where they belong, as there is no > such thing as a "digital harmonic" and - assuming they mean simply > "harmonic", harmonics are not the issue with digital codecs. It's rather the > artifacts of the compression that cause the odd swirls, muffling and > artificial sound. None of that has anything to do with harmonics. > > Chuck > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 4:53 AM > To: IRCA > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test Results > > Chuck, > > Two broadcasting engineers I know, both in CA state that they have acute > hearing and to them, the digital harmonics drive them nuts, if they have to > monitor IBOC audio too long. It is quite personal to them. Some people like > vinyl as the audio has the "warmth" that digital audio lacks. I kind of agree > with that, as I have compared both many times. An album sounds better to me, > if played through a good sound system. My hearing is not that acute that > affects me listening to digital. IBOC audio sounds fine to me as well as the > streaming audio, but to some digital audio is not to their liking. > > Patrick > > Patrick Martin > Seaside OR > KGED QSL Manager > > > From: charle...@msn.com > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:38:55 + > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > Patrick: > > > > Audio quality testers have been aware of that for a hundred years. That's > > why professional audio testing always uses many listeners, male and female, > > old and youg, etc. That's exactly what the consultant did that wrote the > > IBOC audio quality report. > > > > And as for the engineers that hate it, you have to tell me why. There are a > > lot of emotions surrounding IBOC, and with just your words I can't tell if > > they have an agenda. > > > > As for why I dislike (it seems wrong to say "hate") IBOC audio quality: the > > hybrid mode was the lowest quality of FM, analog AM, digital FM, or most > > streaming channels. The all digital quality only gets it up to just below > > analog FM. Still in last place.but possibly equal to many streaming > > channels. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Patrick Martin > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 12:08 AM > > To: IRCA > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > Results > > > > Chuck, > > > > I think with IBOC, if is up to the person's ears. I know several CE's that > > hates digital audio, especially IBOC. > > > > Patrick Martin > > Seaside OR > > KGED QSL Manager > > > > > From: charle...@msn.com > > > To: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:33:58 + > > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab > > > TestResults > > > > > > It should be mentioned that all digital IBOC sounds better than hybrid > > > IBOC and is more robust. The question is whether it is good enough to > > > spark more interest and then more interest sparks more receivers. Or: the > > > FCC does something to force the issue, an unlikely possibility given > > > their lack of desire so far. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > From: IRCA on behalf of Russ Edmunds > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:45 AM > > > To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America > > > Subject: Re: [IRCA] Layer Announces All-Digital AM Co-Channel Lab Test > > > Results > > > > > > Going to all digital might or might not solve interference issues but the > > > cost for stations to do so > > > coupled with the lack of interest al