Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Andrew Ikin]

Hello Guy,

You have raised an interesting question ref. using dual channel SDR for 
phasing. These may in future afford an alternative to some expensive 
commercial phasers. Also the SDR has the option of offering a fixed phase 
over a very wide bandwidth. This could be useful for phasing two orthogonal 
loops to provide omni-direction or with a loop + a resistance loaded 
longwire for a wideband cardioid pattern.

However, like most other phasing schemes the SDR cannot provide a null over 
a wide bandwidth when used say with similar antenna pairs. This can only be 
done with a special Phased array controller when the two endfire antennas 
are run in anti-phase with a delay-line. This phasing also requires a design 
that has zero interaction on the antenna inputs verses phasing/amplitude 
adjustments.

One interesting phaser that may have been overlooked was designed by the 
Late Graham Maynard in the late 1980s. He used a variable delayline to 
provide a 90 degree phase shift with a fixed 180 degree phase reversal 
transformer switched in 4 quadrants to  provide 0-360 degree phasing. The 
advantage of this scheme was a wider null bandwidth as it could be used for 
an endfire array too.

73

Andrew  Ikin






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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Chuck Hutton]

Guy:


I've ben told the AFEDRI native software and HDSDR both support phasing. I have 
two problems with the AFEDRI: (1) it only records 600 kHz spans, and (2) 
phasing can only be done live. There's no way I know of to do phasing on 
recorded files.  This is a shortcomimng that no one has solved for any SDR, as 
best I know.



Chuck


From: IRCA  on behalf of Guy Atkins 

Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America
Subject: Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

Hi Mark,

That was an excellent overview of DX hobbyist use of phasers! You covered
the early history which I wasn't aware of, as I was mostly DXing on the
tropical bands when Gordon Nelson and others did their pioneering work.

There is one more phase (LoL) developing now--software based methods using
coherent dual tuners (or channels). I'm sure you're aware of Afedri's AFE822x
SDR-Net device
<http://www.afedri-sdr.com/index.php/new-afe822x-sdr-net-dual-channel>. It
AFE822x SDR-Net (Dual 
Channel)<http://www.afedri-sdr.com/index.php/new-afe822x-sdr-net-dual-channel>
www.afedri-sdr.com
AFE822x SDR-Net ( Dual Channel ) Features Synchronized (diversity) or separated 
(independent) Dual Channel reception mode 100 kHz to 30.00MHz continuous 
frequency range



was introduced a couple of years ago, but unfortunately software has not
appeared to easily take advantage of phasing. If you jump through a lot of
hoops and complexities with LINRAD, you can catch a glimpse of the future
of software phasing, but it's nothing practical for a DXer's use in my
opinion.

Much more recently, SDRplay's RSPduo <https://www.sdrplay.com/rspduo/> was
introduced with its dual tuners. I have one myself, mainly for its future
possibilities. I'm hoping that the 14-bit structure and additional front
end filters will provide better basic performance than earlier RSP models
I've owned.I expect it to be neck-and-neck with the AirSpy HF+ SDRs in a
quiet DXpedition setting...maybe not so much in my suburban RF jungle.

SDRplay looks to be the most active of all the SDR software developers, and
they say they fully intend to offer phasing features in a future release of
SDRuno software. Their activity, enthusiasm, and customer support make me
think they are the group most likely to take software phasing out of the
laboratory and into the DXer's shack. If he has the time and inclination,
Simon Brown of SDR-Console software could implement RSPduo phasing too, but
he's *not* dropped any hints about this.

73,

Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA
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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Don Moman VE6JY]

The ANAN Sdr series has phasing capability with control built into the
graphical interface.

Don
VE6JY

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:06 PM Les Rayburn  wrote:

> Guy,
>
> I own an SDRPlay RSP-1 Pro and an RSP-2 Pro, still waiting to install them
> and experiment with SDRUno. My plan was to be set up to record the entire
> FM band on I/Q output for this season, but that hasn’t happened yet.
>
> I’m also eying the SDRDuo for the phasing possibilities. This is
> intriguing for both AM and FM DXing and I hope they implement this option
> in the software soon. Also hopeful that Simon will implement this option in
> SDR-Console at some point in the future. How that guy keeps up is beyond
> me!
>
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Les Rayburn, N1LF
> 121 Mayfair Park
> Maylene, AL 35114
> EM63nf
>
> Member WTFDA, IRCA, NRC. Former CPC Chairman for NRC & IRCA.
>
> Elad FDM-S2 SDR, AirSpy SDR2, SDRPlay RSP-2 Pro, Sony XDR-F1HD, Dennon
> TU-1500RD, Sangean HDT-1, Ray Dees RDS Decoders,
> Korner 9.2 Antenna, FM-6 Antenna, Quantum Phaser, Wellbrook ALA1530 Loop,
> Wellbrook Flag, Clifton Labs Active Whip.
>
> “Nothing but blues and Elvis, and somebody else’s favorite song…”
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 2018, at 1:59 PM, Guy Atkins  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > That was an excellent overview of DX hobbyist use of phasers! You covered
> > the early history which I wasn't aware of, as I was mostly DXing on the
> > tropical bands when Gordon Nelson and others did their pioneering work.
> >
> > There is one more phase (LoL) developing now--software based methods
> using
> > coherent dual tuners (or channels).​ I'm sure you're aware of Afedri's
> AFE822x
> > SDR-Net device
> > .
> It
> > was introduced a couple of years ago, but unfortunately software has not
> > appeared to easily take advantage of phasing. If you jump through a lot
> of
> > hoops and complexities with LINRAD, you can catch a glimpse of the future
> > of software phasing, but it's nothing practical for a DXer's use in my
> > opinion.
> >
> > Much more recently, SDRplay's RSPduo 
> was
> > introduced with its dual tuners. I have one myself, mainly for its future
> > possibilities. I'm hoping that the 14-bit structure and additional front
> > end filters will provide better basic performance than earlier RSP models
> > I've owned.I expect it to be neck-and-neck with the AirSpy HF+ SDRs in a
> > quiet DXpedition setting...maybe not so much in my suburban RF jungle.
> >
> > SDRplay looks to be the most active of all the SDR software developers,
> and
> > they say they fully intend to offer phasing features in a future release
> of
> > SDRuno software. Their activity, enthusiasm, and customer support make me
> > think they are the group most likely to take software phasing out of the
> > laboratory and into the DXer's shack. If he has the time and inclination,
> > Simon Brown of SDR-Console software could implement RSPduo phasing too,
> but
> > he's *not* dropped any hints about this.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Guy Atkins
> > Puyallup, WA
> > ___
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> > http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca
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> > Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the
> original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the
> IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers
> >
> > For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> >
> > To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> >
>
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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Les Rayburn]

Guy,

I own an SDRPlay RSP-1 Pro and an RSP-2 Pro, still waiting to install them and 
experiment with SDRUno. My plan was to be set up to record the entire FM band 
on I/Q output for this season, but that hasn’t happened yet. 

I’m also eying the SDRDuo for the phasing possibilities. This is intriguing for 
both AM and FM DXing and I hope they implement this option in the software 
soon. Also hopeful that Simon will implement this option in SDR-Console at some 
point in the future. How that guy keeps up is beyond me! 




73,

Les Rayburn, N1LF
121 Mayfair Park
Maylene, AL 35114
EM63nf

Member WTFDA, IRCA, NRC. Former CPC Chairman for NRC & IRCA. 

Elad FDM-S2 SDR, AirSpy SDR2, SDRPlay RSP-2 Pro, Sony XDR-F1HD, Dennon 
TU-1500RD, Sangean HDT-1, Ray Dees RDS Decoders,
Korner 9.2 Antenna, FM-6 Antenna, Quantum Phaser, Wellbrook ALA1530 Loop, 
Wellbrook Flag, Clifton Labs Active Whip. 

“Nothing but blues and Elvis, and somebody else’s favorite song…” 


> On Jul 9, 2018, at 1:59 PM, Guy Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> That was an excellent overview of DX hobbyist use of phasers! You covered
> the early history which I wasn't aware of, as I was mostly DXing on the
> tropical bands when Gordon Nelson and others did their pioneering work.
> 
> There is one more phase (LoL) developing now--software based methods using
> coherent dual tuners (or channels).​ I'm sure you're aware of Afedri's AFE822x
> SDR-Net device
> . It
> was introduced a couple of years ago, but unfortunately software has not
> appeared to easily take advantage of phasing. If you jump through a lot of
> hoops and complexities with LINRAD, you can catch a glimpse of the future
> of software phasing, but it's nothing practical for a DXer's use in my
> opinion.
> 
> Much more recently, SDRplay's RSPduo  was
> introduced with its dual tuners. I have one myself, mainly for its future
> possibilities. I'm hoping that the 14-bit structure and additional front
> end filters will provide better basic performance than earlier RSP models
> I've owned.I expect it to be neck-and-neck with the AirSpy HF+ SDRs in a
> quiet DXpedition setting...maybe not so much in my suburban RF jungle.
> 
> SDRplay looks to be the most active of all the SDR software developers, and
> they say they fully intend to offer phasing features in a future release of
> SDRuno software. Their activity, enthusiasm, and customer support make me
> think they are the group most likely to take software phasing out of the
> laboratory and into the DXer's shack. If he has the time and inclination,
> Simon Brown of SDR-Console software could implement RSPduo phasing too, but
> he's *not* dropped any hints about this.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Guy Atkins
> Puyallup, WA
> ___
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> 
> Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original 
> contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its 
> editors, publishing staff, or officers
> 
> For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org
> 
> To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
> 

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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Guy Atkins]

Hi Mark,

That was an excellent overview of DX hobbyist use of phasers! You covered
the early history which I wasn't aware of, as I was mostly DXing on the
tropical bands when Gordon Nelson and others did their pioneering work.

There is one more phase (LoL) developing now--software based methods using
coherent dual tuners (or channels).​ I'm sure you're aware of Afedri's AFE822x
SDR-Net device
. It
was introduced a couple of years ago, but unfortunately software has not
appeared to easily take advantage of phasing. If you jump through a lot of
hoops and complexities with LINRAD, you can catch a glimpse of the future
of software phasing, but it's nothing practical for a DXer's use in my
opinion.

Much more recently, SDRplay's RSPduo  was
introduced with its dual tuners. I have one myself, mainly for its future
possibilities. I'm hoping that the 14-bit structure and additional front
end filters will provide better basic performance than earlier RSP models
I've owned.I expect it to be neck-and-neck with the AirSpy HF+ SDRs in a
quiet DXpedition setting...maybe not so much in my suburban RF jungle.

SDRplay looks to be the most active of all the SDR software developers, and
they say they fully intend to offer phasing features in a future release of
SDRuno software. Their activity, enthusiasm, and customer support make me
think they are the group most likely to take software phasing out of the
laboratory and into the DXer's shack. If he has the time and inclination,
Simon Brown of SDR-Console software could implement RSPduo phasing too, but
he's *not* dropped any hints about this.

73,

Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA
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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Brandon Jordan]

Hi Mark. That is a very amazing history lesson! Thank you taking the time to 
post it.

73,
Brandon
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Re: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Mark Mobile]

Mark:  Nice history.  Thank you!




Cheers!

Mark Durenberger, mobile


-Original Message- 
From: Mark Connelly via IRCA

Sent: Friday, July 06, 2018 10:18 PM
To: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Cc: Mark Connelly
Subject: [IRCA] phasing units, then and now

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[IRCA] phasing units, then and now

[Mark Connelly via IRCA]

--- Begin Message ---
This message is prompted by the "Misek/Lankford/Ratzlaff proto test" thread 
that I found when perusing the 3-week IRCA digest recently sent,  Interestingly 
I had not seen any of that discussion in the daily digests during that time 
period.


Phasing two or more antennas has been in regular use in the broadcast industry 
since the earliest directional arrays in the 1920's or 1930's.


In aircraft and shipboard direction finding applications (RDF), the combination 
of a figure-of-8 loop and an omnidirectional vertical whip to produce a 
single-direction null, cardioid (heart-shaped) pattern, has been in regular use 
since at least World War II.


In medium-wave DXing, the first usage of phasing (that I know about) was by 
Gordon Nelson (WA1UXQ) in the late '60s and early '70s,  His unit consisted of 
a series inductor, tuning capacitor, and low range (500 ohm or less) 
potentiometer coming from each antenna jack.  The other end of each L-C-R line 
went to a transformer with its primary center tap to ground; the transformer 
secondary was connected to the output-to-receiver and ground coaxial jack.  The 
primary transformer leads could be reversed to flip phase 180 degrees.  Each 
line would be tuned to resonance individually, the user then adjusted pots so 
that station-to-null amplitude on each antenna was roughly equal.  Phase 
shifting was accomplished by adjusting one capacitor or the other off its 
peaked setting.  With certain types of antennas, namely lower impedance ones, 
the set-up worked reasonably well.  The Q (selectivity) and, as a result, phase 
shifting range, could sometimes be inadequate.


Nelson let me borrow one of his phasers around 1974 and I had some moderate 
success with the thing at Menotomy Rocks Park (Arlington, MA) and the following 
year much greater success at Willis Pond (Sudbury, MA) with two 1200 ft. (366m) 
Beverages.


Other DXers such as Bill Bailey (W1YPK) and Chuck Hutton (WD4ELO) were also on 
the phasing bandwagon using variations on Nelson's design.



After a while Ron Schatz of FL came out with the specific type of phasing known 
as the Loop Sense Cardioid Array.  This was basically the loop-versus-whip RDF 
system of aircraft direction-finding fame tweaked for the MW DX application.


By the late '70s I had changed the series L-C-R application over to a parallel 
L-C-R tank on each line with a tap on the inductor for low impedance matching.  
 Different input coupling values, usually capacitive, were tried so that all 
needed phase shifts could be accommodated without excessive insertion loss.  
Passive phasing was the typical method used in strong-signal urban 
environments, but, for operation out in the "boonies", FET buffer amplifiers 
were inserted after the tank circuits for substantially more sensitivity.  The 
National Semiconductors LH0033CG and LH0063CK buffers were workhorses in my 
designs.  I still have a flea-market stash of these long-obsolete parts though 
better designs, such as Lankford's, have come along since.


In the '80s the next development in phasing was use of off-the-shelf tapped 
delay lines.  Gerry Thomas and Dallas Lankford got involved with those and I 
experimented with them as well.


The "bridge" circuit, as used in some of my "DXP" and Gerry Thomas' Quantum 
Phasers, was well established by the '90s.  Meanwhile Misek, Lankford, and 
Ratzlaff were working on delay-line circuits created from discrete inductors 
and capacitors rather than from the "canned" units used previously.  These 
allowed for finer adjustments.


Phasers were developed for the ham radio community, initially marketed as 
"noise cancellers" and later acknowledged for abilities to null actual 
interfering stations and do beamforming.  JPS ANC-1 and the MFJ 1025 and 1026 
models were moderately-priced entry level units.  The more sophisticated DX 
Engineering NCC models came later.


By the early 2000's, two developments came along to rock the MW DX hobby in 
many ways and change what DXers did with phasing.  


The first development was wider-spread use of terminated cardioid-pattern loops 
with names such as Ewe, Kaz, SuperLoop, Flag, Bowtie, DKAZ, and DHDL.  
Especially on the two coasts of North America, with foreign DX often in the 
opposite direction from much of the domestic interference, these antennas were 
a godsend since they produced a desirable directional pattern over good 
bandwidth without all that phasing unit knob twisting.  Furthermore, the 
pattern held up even with rather small antennas that could fit in a suburban 
lot or even on the roof of a vehicle.  Until about 2000, my car roof beach DX 
set-up that I trotted out to Granite Pier and other locales was a bidirectional 
loop phased against an active whip.  The system was very effective in nulling 
"pests" from NYC to the southwest as Europeans from the northeast boomed in 
around sunset.  Moving about the dial involved periodic phase / amplitude 
re-adjustments to