Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Mike Patrick, T Rewired the fence antenna this evening and when I was finished I turn on the receiver to check out the fence antenna. Turn to 1130 kHz and KPNW had a normal strong signal here. Exactly at 6:30 P.M. PDT KPNW signed-off. CKWX then dominated the frequency. 45 miles North of CKWX as the crow flies. Dennis, Salmon Creek, WA - Original Message - From: Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net To: Mike Stonebridge stonb...@abnorth.com, Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:38:49 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference Earlier this evening, shortly after our local sunset, KPWX owned 1130. No sign at all of CKWX which normally owns 1130 up here. This went on for quite some time until they powered down and then CKWX was heard. Wow! That far North. No wonder people in the Frasier Valley are complaining. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I did note both stations on Haida Gwaii last month, but mostly tonight, I'm hearing CKWX at 100% copy with no QRM whatsoever, here in Victoria, At LSS Mt. Angel drops power from 25 KW (?) to 490w to the South, so CKWX does take over the frequency. But during the day, it is a different story. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I think right now, the CKWX QRM is being reported in the late afternoons on the Lower Mainland during drive time, but I would guess the QRM must be in the mornings too. Not an issue during the middle of the day as yet anyway. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
Why not move it to 1570 or 1580? - Original Message - From: Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club ofAmerica irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
Move CKWX or The Mt Angel station to 1570/1580? Paul On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Saul DX sau...@sympatico.ca wrote: Why not move it to 1570 or 1580? - Original Message - From: Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club ofAmerica irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I know we're discussing this over and over again.. but something will be worked out, wether officially on the books or privately between the two stations. If I recall, CKWX isn't protected against skywave interference at critical hours or something like that.. Scott Fybush mentioned it a day or two ago. I don't remember exactly what Scott said. Paul On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net wrote: I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
CKWX, as it's a Cdn clear... - Original Message - From: Paul B. Walker, Jr. walkerbroadcast...@gmail.com To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference Move CKWX or The Mt Angel station to 1570/1580? Paul On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Saul DX sau...@sympatico.ca wrote: Why not move it to 1570 or 1580? - Original Message - From: Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club ofAmerica irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
Paul, What I did not realize was 1130 is a US clear along side of the Canadian Clear, that makes the difference as both countries use it for 50 KWers. The interference is too close to combat. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
Not 1580, as there is another station close by (KGAL), but 1570 would be open, even 1110 maybe, if KBND was protected, 1100, nearest there is SF. There are lots of possibilities, if the FCC would ok them, but as you know changing freq. is not easy to get oked always either. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Earlier this evening, shortly after our local sunset, KPWX owned 1130. No sign at all of CKWX which normally owns 1130 up here. This went on for quite some time until they powered down and then CKWX was heard. Mike in St. Isidore, AB ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Earlier this evening, shortly after our local sunset, KPWX owned 1130. No sign at all of CKWX which normally owns 1130 up here. This went on for quite some time until they powered down and then CKWX was heard. Wow! That far North. No wonder people in the Frasier Valley are complaining. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I know the amount of darkness in the afternoons and late in the mornings with the sun being so low, as it never really gets bright daylight in Dec/Jan on the OR coast and BC would even be more in darkness, so I can se Mt. Angel QRMing during most of the day. I get skip all day in Dec/Jan here. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
P.S. Too bad CKWX can't go to 1135 khz. VOA in the Philippines did just that for a time from 1143 to 1147.5 kHz. hi. Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] RE 1130 interference
I did note both stations on Haida Gwaii last month, but mostly tonight, I'm hearing CKWX at 100% copy with no QRM whatsoever, here in Victoria, BC..Walt On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net wrote: I was informed tonight by a friend that in 1952 CBU moved from 1130 to 690 as the CBC was concerned about exactly what has happened. I guess I did not realize that 1130 is a Canadian Clear as well as as an American Clear. 690 on the other hand is a Canadian Mexican Clear. If 1130 was a Canadian Mexican Clear, there would not be the issue, at least with Daytime interference. I guess Tijuana does QRM CBU at times in some areas at night. Not here though, CBU is a huge powerhouse 24/7. The strongest Canadian I get. On another list there are Canadian reports that the Mt. Angel station is QRMing within 10 miles East of the CKWX tx site in Burnaby and also off the coast on Vancouver Island near Duncan, so the QRM is wide spread and easily in the main contour of CKWX's Grade A signal area. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
I actually thought about that..lol. They're probably asusming that the 50KW CP will be granted and using that to help their case.. since to listeners, 50KW is alot more then 25KW in their mind. although the actual difference between 25KW and 50KW aren't much at all. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Pete Taylor p...@comcast.net wrote: Paul B. Walker, Jr. wrote: How can KPWX run 50KW when the Permit to do so hasn't even been granted yet? (It hadn't been when I checked Friday morning) You should therefore write CKWX and tell them that since they are stating that the station is running 50,000 (sic) kilowatts. Pete Taylor Tacoma, WA 12225w 4719n HQ180 ICF2010 Kiwa aircore Palomar loops DX398, SRF-59 M37V Eton E100 + Tecsun PL-300/380 ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
I have e mailed CKWX twice, without a reply. So they know it. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Patrick Martin wrote: I have e mailed CKWX twice, without a reply. So they know it. Of course they do. There are two things going on here: one is the public story CKWX puts out to its listeners, and one is the negotiating that's taking place behind the scenes between CKWX and KPWX. 99.999% of CKWX's listeners don't understand the intricacies of AM propagation and ionospheric science; it's a pretty good bet that their meteorologist doesn't, either. And based on my experience, something like 99.99% of newspeople and station management don't know the E-layer from their sock drawer, and don't care. What matters publicly is that the station's listeners know the station is aware that something is wrong, and that the station is trying to do something about it. So they put out this story, and that crisis is averted, at least for the moment. Meanwhile, I'm told by sources close to the situation that there have been discussions underway looking for a real solution. We'll see what comes of them... s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
There are two things going on here: one is the public story CKWX puts out to its listeners, and one is the negotiating that's taking place behind the scenes between CKWX and KPWX. I can believe that as most people don't have a clue why there is interference. All they know, is they don't like it. CKWX is a very popular News station covering the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island, so I am sure the complaints are everywhere. 99.999% of CKWX's listeners don't understand the intricacies of AM propagation and ionospheric science; it's a pretty good bet that their meteorologist doesn't, either. And based on my experience, something like 99.99% of newspeople and station management don't know the E-layer from their sock drawer, and don't care. What matters publicly is that the station's listeners know the station is aware that something is wrong, and that the station is trying to do something about it. So they put out this story, and that crisis is averted, at least for the moment. But if this goes on too long, I am sure CKWX will lose listeners. People love the All News stations and depend on them at rush hour and that is when the QRM is apparent. Meanwhile, I'm told by sources close to the situation that there have been discussions underway looking for a real solution. We'll see what comes of them... It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Here on the Oregon Coast I am far enough away from Mt. Angel to notice any power change. They probably should have had the 6.5 KW during Critical Hours. Thanks Scott. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Patrick Martin wrote: I can believe that as most people don't have a clue why there is interference. All they know, is they don't like it. CKWX is a very popular News station covering the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island, so I am sure the complaints are everywhere. Doubtful. The reason the issues are cropping up in the Fraser Valley has to do with poor ground conductivity between the CKWX transmitter site (south of Vancouver in the Richmond/Surrey area) and the relatively distant Fraser Valley. Within most of the rest of metro Vancouver, CKWX puts a strong enough signal to overcome any incoming interference from KPWX. But out in the Fraser Valley, CKWX barely puts a 0.5 mV/m signal, which is fairly weak - and thus subject to interference from KPWX. But if this goes on too long, I am sure CKWX will lose listeners. People love the All News stations and depend on them at rush hour and that is when the QRM is apparent. They may or may not see any real-world ratings hit; it depends on how much of the ratings panel is out in the areas east of Vancouver suffering the interference. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Here on the Oregon Coast I am far enough away from Mt. Angel to notice any power change. They probably should have had the 6.5 KW during Critical Hours. If they'd been protecting a US station on 1130, they'd probably have had even lower critical-hours power, since US class A and B stations (unlike Canadian stations) are protected from incoming skywave interference during critical hours. And it's important to understand where that 6.5 kW figure comes from. It's really 6250 watts, and there's nothing magical about it - it's simply that the FCC allows directional AM stations to run a maximum of 25% of their daytime power under STA, and 6250 watts is 25% of 25 kW. (Similarly, WWVA will be running 12.5 kW at night under STA once it completes rebuilding the first of its three downed towers later this week; that's 25% of its licensed directional 50 kW.) In KPWX's case, the STA operation was only for a few weeks, to allow KPWX to make the ground conductivity measurements it needed to make as part of the 50 kW application process. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Scott Fybush wrote: It's rather a long, complex read, but here's the engineering exhibit from KPWX's application for a power increase: http://bit.ly/9A6DWx Scott, this won't open (at least here). Does anyone know for sure if KPWX is indeed running 50kw? If not, CKWX ain't heard nuthin' yet... Pete Taylor Tacoma, WA 12225w 4719n HQ180 ICF2010 Kiwa aircore Palomar loops DX398, SRF-59 M37V Eton E100 + Tecsun PL-300/380 ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
How can KPWX run 50KW when the Permit to do so hasn't even been granted yet? (It hadn't been when I checked Friday morning) Paul On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Pete Taylor p...@comcast.net wrote: Scott Fybush wrote: It's rather a long, complex read, but here's the engineering exhibit from KPWX's application for a power increase: http://bit.ly/9A6DWx Scott, this won't open (at least here). Does anyone know for sure if KPWX is indeed running 50kw? If not, CKWX ain't heard nuthin' yet... Pete Taylor Tacoma, WA 12225w 4719n HQ180 ICF2010 Kiwa aircore Palomar loops DX398, SRF-59 M37V Eton E100 + Tecsun PL-300/380 ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
If they are running 25KW, they have to be sending a ton of signal to the NW, as I am 100 miles from them and their signal matches the 50 KWers in Portland in signal. I can easily see why they QRM CKWX near LSS. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Paul B. Walker, Jr. wrote: How can KPWX run 50KW when the Permit to do so hasn't even been granted yet? (It hadn't been when I checked Friday morning) You should therefore write CKWX and tell them that since they are stating that the station is running 50,000 (sic) kilowatts. Pete Taylor Tacoma, WA 12225w 4719n HQ180 ICF2010 Kiwa aircore Palomar loops DX398, SRF-59 M37V Eton E100 + Tecsun PL-300/380 ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Patrick Martin wrote: Scott, Don't we have something in International laws to protect CKWX? That's what I've been trying to explain. There's an international treaty signed by the US and Canada in 1984, formally known as the Agreement Between the Government of the United States of America and the Government of Canada Relating to the AM Broadcasting Service in the Medium Frequency Band and informally known as the bilateral agreement. According to that treaty (which has the force of law in both countries), CKWX is protected from *groundwave* interference on Canadian soil during daylight hours, and from both skywave and groundwave interference at night. KPWX puts essentially no groundwave signal into Canada, and they have measurements to prove that. The treaty provides *no* protection to CKWX (or any other Canadian class A station) from skywave interference during critical hours, which is what's happening here. It's possible that CKWX could work out some sort of arrangement with KPWX in private negotiations (like that WNYR/CFTR deal in the seventies I described in an earlier e-mail), but it doesn't appear to have much recourse where the laws are concerned. It may not sound fair, but there are a lot of things in international broadcasting treaties that don't work out well for individual stations. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Scott, OK, it is the critical hours that are not covered. It seems that slipped through the cracks. Thanks for the reclarification. Now today, Mt. Angel is weaker this morning and CKWX is on top. It sounds like they are trying to make a change. The same was true on Sunday. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Bill, With 50KW ERP to the North, the Mount Angel QRM is not going away. Infact, as it gets towards Winter, the QRM will last longer in the morning and start earlier in the afternoon. The only way the QRM will go away if Mt. Angel drops power, changes their directional pattern, or goes off the air. If they get the 50 KW days, they are asking for, the QRM wil even be worse. Why in the World did the FCC ever allow this station to come on, is beyond me, as CKWX should be protected as they have been on 1130 for decades. CKWX needs to really raise the roof on this to the FCC. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
I sent them an e-mail yesterday, explaining all this, and have yet to hear back... Saul - Original Message - From: Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club ofAmerica irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference Bill, With 50KW ERP to the North, the Mount Angel QRM is not going away. Infact, as it gets towards Winter, the QRM will last longer in the morning and start earlier in the afternoon. The only way the QRM will go away if Mt. Angel drops power, changes their directional pattern, or goes off the air. If they get the 50 KW days, they are asking for, the QRM wil even be worse. Why in the World did the FCC ever allow this station to come on, is beyond me, as CKWX should be protected as they have been on 1130 for decades. CKWX needs to really raise the roof on this to the FCC. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Patrick Martin wrote: Why in the World did the FCC ever allow this station to come on, is beyond me, as CKWX should be protected as they have been on 1130 for decades. CKWX needs to really raise the roof on this to the FCC. Here's how this all plays out, as I understand it: As a Canadian station, CKWX has no standing to complain directly to the FCC. They complain to Industry Canada, which takes the issue to Canada's equivalent of our State Department (the Foreign Ministry, I believe?), which takes it to the U.S. State Department, which takes it to the FCC. The problem is, there's a treaty that regulates AM radio along the border. I'm working from memory here, so I may have some of the specifics wrong, but when the Mount Angel station was applied for, it had to make a showing that on paper, its signal would not exceed the interference levels specified in the treaty. The current treaty was written in 1984, and it provides for only *groundwave* protection during daylight hours. In effect, the US and Canada agreed to pretend that critical hours skywave propagation doesn't exist. It's rather a long, complex read, but here's the engineering exhibit from KPWX's application for a power increase: http://bit.ly/9A6DWx I'd direct your attention to page 2, where the respected engineering firm that did the application tells us that: Good engineering practice was followed for all measurements. Care was taken to avoid skywave during early morning and late afternoon hours. CKWX can certainly complain...but its complaint will be hampered by the political reality that its own government signed a treaty 26 years ago that pretty much authorized the interference it's now receiving. Even if the treaty were to be amended (not an easy or quick process), stations authorized before the adoption of the revised treaty would still be grandfathered in. It's not pretty...but that's international diplomacy for you. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Thanks Scott. I agree, it is not pretty, but I am sure CKWX has the power and money needed to handle everything legal. In the meantime, if anything is done, the listeners in the Frasier Valley will suffer. I guess they can wire the money needed to buy the Mount Angel station and shut it down. hi. That is an option. But maybe they do have an option to run traffic and news on a translator in the valley on FM? Stay tuned, I am sure this is not a done deal. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Getting a low pwoer relay or changing format of an FM is much tougher in Canada then in the US.. you have to get approval to change formats even in Canada On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Patrick Martin mwd...@webtv.net wrote: Thanks Scott. I agree, it is not pretty, but I am sure CKWX has the power and money needed to handle everything legal. In the meantime, if anything is done, the listeners in the Frasier Valley will suffer. I guess they can wire the money needed to buy the Mount Angel station and shut it down. hi. That is an option. But maybe they do have an option to run traffic and news on a translator in the valley on FM? Stay tuned, I am sure this is not a done deal. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Patrick Martin wrote: There is gotta be something CKWX can do, as their listeners in the Frasier Valley are putting with the interference. I'm sure CKWX wishes it were so - but there really may not be much they can do, at least in the short term. The FM dial in the Puget Sound region is so overcrowded that I can't imagine a frequency being available for them to add an FM signal serving the Fraser Valley. As a Canadian company, Rogers can't even legally buy KPWX to shut it down. Perhaps the best precedent I can think of also came from Rogers, a long time ago. CFTR 680 was a 25 kW signal from a 13-tower array in Mississauga, west of Toronto, and its signal in parts of the Toronto area was hurt by the nulls it had to provide to WNYR 680, a non-DA 250-watt daytimer in Rochester, about 90 miles across the lake to the southeast. Rochester had been there first - it signed on in 1947, while Toronto only arrived on 680 in the 1960s, when Rogers moved what was then CHFI from 1540 to 680 and CHLO in St. Thomas, Ontario from 680 to 1570. It took several years of high-level international negotiations (the State Department and its Canadian counterpart were involved), but Rogers brokered a deal that allowed WNYR in Rochester to move to 990, which was a Canadian clear channel. Canada agreed to waive its treaty protections to let Rochester use the channel, and Rogers paid for a new and very expensive six-tower directional array for 990 in Rochester. Getting WNYR off 680 allowed CFTR to move to a much better site due south of Toronto in Grimsby, Ontario, where it increased power to 50 kW, all blasted due north into Toronto. I *think* (though I haven't done the math on it) that part of the problem CKWX is experiencing from KPWX is the result of KPWX using VERY short towers, which result in a skywave takeoff angle that creates close-in skywave right over Vancouver. Since the treaties don't address daytime skywave, there's no penalty to KPWX for doing this, and KPWX benefits by saving money on tower construction. (Their towers are really, REALLY short - 53 electrical degrees in height, compared to 90 degrees for a more typical class B station and 190 degrees for a typical class A.) If KPWX could get zoning permission to build taller towers (and that's far from guaranteed these days!), I suspect much of the critical-hours skywave issue could be ameliorated...and paying for taller towers would probably end up being a lot cheaper for CKWX than the legal hassles they'd get into if they try to fight what's probably an otherwise unwinnable fight. (I am not a lawyer or an engineering consultant, etc...) s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
My read isn't that this is a daytime skywave issue but rather a sunrise/sunset issue, although the same solution might still help. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id wb2...@yahoo.com FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Modified Sony ICF 2010 barefoot --- On Thu, 10/7/10, Scott Fybush sc...@fybush.com wrote: From: Scott Fybush sc...@fybush.com Subject: Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 2:30 PM Patrick Martin wrote: There is gotta be something CKWX can do, as their listeners in the Frasier Valley are putting with the interference. I'm sure CKWX wishes it were so - but there really may not be much they can do, at least in the short term. The FM dial in the Puget Sound region is so overcrowded that I can't imagine a frequency being available for them to add an FM signal serving the Fraser Valley. As a Canadian company, Rogers can't even legally buy KPWX to shut it down. Perhaps the best precedent I can think of also came from Rogers, a long time ago. CFTR 680 was a 25 kW signal from a 13-tower array in Mississauga, west of Toronto, and its signal in parts of the Toronto area was hurt by the nulls it had to provide to WNYR 680, a non-DA 250-watt daytimer in Rochester, about 90 miles across the lake to the southeast. Rochester had been there first - it signed on in 1947, while Toronto only arrived on 680 in the 1960s, when Rogers moved what was then CHFI from 1540 to 680 and CHLO in St. Thomas, Ontario from 680 to 1570. It took several years of high-level international negotiations (the State Department and its Canadian counterpart were involved), but Rogers brokered a deal that allowed WNYR in Rochester to move to 990, which was a Canadian clear channel. Canada agreed to waive its treaty protections to let Rochester use the channel, and Rogers paid for a new and very expensive six-tower directional array for 990 in Rochester. Getting WNYR off 680 allowed CFTR to move to a much better site due south of Toronto in Grimsby, Ontario, where it increased power to 50 kW, all blasted due north into Toronto. I *think* (though I haven't done the math on it) that part of the problem CKWX is experiencing from KPWX is the result of KPWX using VERY short towers, which result in a skywave takeoff angle that creates close-in skywave right over Vancouver. Since the treaties don't address daytime skywave, there's no penalty to KPWX for doing this, and KPWX benefits by saving money on tower construction. (Their towers are really, REALLY short - 53 electrical degrees in height, compared to 90 degrees for a more typical class B station and 190 degrees for a typical class A.) If KPWX could get zoning permission to build taller towers (and that's far from guaranteed these days!), I suspect much of the critical-hours skywave issue could be ameliorated...and paying for taller towers would probably end up being a lot cheaper for CKWX than the legal hassles they'd get into if they try to fight what's probably an otherwise unwinnable fight. (I am not a lawyer or an engineering consultant, etc...) s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
My read isn't that this is a daytime skywave issue but rather a sunrise/sunset issue, although the same solution might still help. It's the same thing, is it not? The reason CKWX gets hammered just after sunrise and just before sunset is because the skywave hasn't died down yet, so those 25 gallons of KPWX come blaring in, whereas during the rest of the day it's all groundwave and the signal behaves the way it's supposed to on paper. ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
It is, but my thought was that sunrise/sunset enhancement will still be there even if they used larger towers. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id wb2...@yahoo.com FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Modified Sony ICF 2010 barefoot --- On Thu, 10/7/10, sc...@fybush.com sc...@fybush.com wrote: From: sc...@fybush.com sc...@fybush.com Subject: Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 4:47 PM My read isn't that this is a daytime skywave issue but rather a sunrise/sunset issue, although the same solution might still help. It's the same thing, is it not? The reason CKWX gets hammered just after sunrise and just before sunset is because the skywave hasn't died down yet, so those 25 gallons of KPWX come blaring in, whereas during the rest of the day it's all groundwave and the signal behaves the way it's supposed to on paper. ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
It is, but my thought was that sunrise/sunset enhancement will still be there even if they used larger towers. The height of the towers controls the takeoff angle for the skywave. If I understand it correctly, the shorter towers give off more high-angle radiation, which means a shorter distance to the first skip back to ground. There will still be skywave if they raise the height of the towers, but it will come off the towers at a lower angle and skip back to ground at a greater distance...ideally somewhere in central or northern BC instead of metro Vancouver. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
part of the problem CKWX is experiencing from KPWX is the result Is it just a coincidence that the 2 sets of call letters are so similar sounding? (Their towers are really, REALLY short - 53 electrical degrees in height, compared to 90 degrees for a more typical class B station and 190 degrees for a typical class A.) I figure 53 degrees at this freq is a tower height of 128 feet. Is this about where they are at? Do they even have to light them? - Bob ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
At 128 feet, no they don't have to be lit unless they are in the flight path of an airport. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 5:29 PM, rfoxw...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: part of the problem CKWX is experiencing from KPWX is the result Is it just a coincidence that the 2 sets of call letters are so similar sounding? (Their towers are really, REALLY short - 53 electrical degrees in height, compared to 90 degrees for a more typical class B station and 190 degrees for a typical class A.) I figure 53 degrees at this freq is a tower height of 128 feet. Is this about where they are at? Do they even have to light them? - Bob ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
rfoxw...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: part of the problem CKWX is experiencing from KPWX is the result Is it just a coincidence that the 2 sets of call letters are so similar sounding? I believe so, yes. Those aren't the original calls - they were picked after the station was sold to Amador Bustos, who likes his calls to end with X. (Their towers are really, REALLY short - 53 electrical degrees in height, compared to 90 degrees for a more typical class B station and 190 degrees for a typical class A.) I figure 53 degrees at this freq is a tower height of 128 feet. Is this about where they are at? Do they even have to light them? That appears to be correct - there's no top-loading indicated in any of KPWX's applications. It may be that 128 feet was simply as much tower as they could get past local zoning...but I think one of the issues here is that the Mount Angel station was built on spec - the applicant evidently had no intention of operating the station, just to build it out and sell it. There's no incentive to build it right under those circumstances...and part of the problem here is that Mount Angel simply was built on the cheap. There was a time when the FCC would not have licensed 53-degree towers for a 50 kW stations. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
neilkaz wrote: Scott There was a time when the FCC would not have licensed 53-degree towers for a 50 kW stations. KAZ replies that there was a time when our FCC had integrity and wasn't a pawn of big corporarations and wasn't 100% clueless in regards to both AM and FM engineering and propagation. It's not the big corporations who want signals like KPWX on the air. The big corporations already have their good 50 kW signals with properly-designed antenna arrays, and they don't want the extra interference that stations like KPWX add to the dial. It's the little guys who've been pushing the FCC for many decades now to find ways to cram more signals into an overcrowded dial. And all the way back to the Communications Act of 1934, there's been that mandate (you can look it up under section 307b) to provide a fair and equitable distribution of broadcast service, a mandate the FCC has consistently equated with more and more signals serving smaller and smaller areas. This is not a new debate, and it goes back many decades to the days when the FCC really did have engineers running it. If Mark Durenberger's around, I'm sure he can offer links to the excellent writing he did a while back about the lengthy process by which the original clear channels were broken down. And having said that, there's never really been a time when the FCC has been entirely independent of what the large corporate broadcasters want. There's a long history of corporate broadcasting executives becoming FCC commissioners or vice versa; look back 60 years to the days when Charles Denny moved straight from a chair on the FCC to a cushy executive job with RCA, just after he'd conveniently quashed the CBS color TV system in favor of RCA's, or to the more respectable service of Jim Quello as FCC chairman after a distinguished career running WJR in Detroit. s ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
The height of the towers controls the takeoff angle for the skywave. If I understand it correctly, the shorter towers give off more high-angle radiation, which means a shorter distance to the first skip back to ground. There will still be skywave if they raise the height of the towers, but it will come off the towers at a lower angle and skip back to ground at a greater distance...ideally somewhere in central or northern BC instead of metro Vancouver. I wonder if there will be some fix in the future to try and help the situation as you described? I would think something would be done. Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Re; 1130 Interference
Scott, Don't we have something in International laws to protect CKWX? I don't know if CKWX sells in the Frasier Valley, but a loss of revenue might create a lawsuit? Like you, I have no clue, but I don't see how some station can just get the okey from the FCC to build and cause QRM Internationally? However, that is the case with IBOC and nothing has been done to stop that from QRMing Canadian stations. If it was Cuba, they would just boost CKWX's signal to 500 KW. hi. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin Seaside OR KGED QSL Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
