Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles)
Chuck Hutton might have a clearer explanation of the effect of the salt water off the top of his head Aaron, if he wants to check in. Beverages work because of the approaching wave front being tilted by dragging along non-conductive ground (to be simplistic), but the conductive salt water doesn't tilt the wave front nearly so much. Mind you, many of our desired signals are already tilted by the way they are propagated, so... I have actually used a 1000' wire along a Pacific coast pier in southern California many years ago, and heard TP's but it was a bit of a fly by night (or at least by sunrise) operation, so I wasn't able to compare it with anything else, or do a serious study of its directivity. As for the pickup coil idea, I think you would be better off to use a 9:1 transformer (make it an autotransformer if you can't get an external ground, presumably to the salt water) to connect to the QSR1. With the Degen, you'd need to experiment...maybe coil some wire around the radio, one end to the Beverage, one end to the ground of the Degen, battery negative terminal or headphone jack sleeve. Pretty hit and miss I'd guess. best wishes, Nick At 16:58 16-05-15, you wrote: Nick, I should clarify that it is a steel cable fence. So there were three cables running parallel to the ground, that do not touch each other and appeared unbroken. Each steel cable consisted of several twisted smaller wires (but still heavy gauge). The cables ran through slots in fence posts - maybe 10 feet apart. The supports looked non-conductive, but that would need to be tested. At the time I had a portable Degen 1103 - which I haven't used with an external antenna on MW (and I'm not sure how to overide the internal MW antenna - you might have to induce the signal into it with a coil). I also have a QS1R which I would just connect any antenna directly to the antenna connector. But my main question is: How effective is it to use a pickup coil on a beverage antenna? I'm guessing there'd be a loss of sensitivity (though maybe not a huge issue if the antenna is long enough - as the signal/noise ratio would still be very good). Would there be any loss of directionality? I didn't even consider that saltwater conductivity would hurt the beverage directionality!How far should the beverage antenna be from saltwater? Thanks, Aaron -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 05:59:41 + From: Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Subject: Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles) Message-ID: 20150515055942.cffb25...@texas.kotalampi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Some unknowns here, Aaron...is it a single wire on supports? A wire fence is a grid of wires in many people's minds, and that's mostly a random chunk of metal as far as being a radio antenna. If it is a single wire on supports, are the supports non-conductive? Because the bike path is parallel to the salt water, your Beverage effect may be quite compromised by the water's electrical conductivity.I suspect you might just get extra signal strength without much directional effect.As for hooking up to it, that would depend on what sort of radio you're using. How would you hook up a random wire to that radio? That might be a good starting point. Good luck with this, Nick At 22:51 11-05-15, you wrote: I didn't have my radio with me at the time, but there is a steel wire fence on a bike path in Venice CA which is around 1000 feet. Could this work as a pre-made beverage? Can you tap a beverage with a simple coil around it, or what is the best approach? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Venice,+Los+Angeles,+CA/@33.9651082,-118.4505142,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bac03052685d:0x8f1101b40d5c8d3c Aaron ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles)
Nick, I should clarify that it is a steel cable fence. So there were three cables running parallel to the ground, that do not touch each other and appeared unbroken. Each steel cable consisted of several twisted smaller wires (but still heavy gauge). The cables ran through slots in fence posts - maybe 10 feet apart. The supports looked non-conductive, but that would need to be tested. At the time I had a portable Degen 1103 - which I haven't used with an external antenna on MW (and I'm not sure how to overide the internal MW antenna - you might have to induce the signal into it with a coil). I also have a QS1R which I would just connect any antenna directly to the antenna connector. But my main question is: How effective is it to use a pickup coil on a beverage antenna? I'm guessing there'd be a loss of sensitivity (though maybe not a huge issue if the antenna is long enough - as the signal/noise ratio would still be very good). Would there be any loss of directionality? I didn't even consider that saltwater conductivity would hurt the beverage directionality!How far should the beverage antenna be from saltwater? Thanks, Aaron -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 05:59:41 + From: Nick Hall-Patch n...@ieee.org To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Subject: Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles) Message-ID: 20150515055942.cffb25...@texas.kotalampi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Some unknowns here, Aaron...is it a single wire on supports? A wire fence is a grid of wires in many people's minds, and that's mostly a random chunk of metal as far as being a radio antenna. If it is a single wire on supports, are the supports non-conductive? Because the bike path is parallel to the salt water, your Beverage effect may be quite compromised by the water's electrical conductivity.I suspect you might just get extra signal strength without much directional effect.As for hooking up to it, that would depend on what sort of radio you're using. How would you hook up a random wire to that radio? That might be a good starting point. Good luck with this, Nick At 22:51 11-05-15, you wrote: I didn't have my radio with me at the time, but there is a steel wire fence on a bike path in Venice CA which is around 1000 feet. Could this work as a pre-made beverage? Can you tap a beverage with a simple coil around it, or what is the best approach? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Venice,+Los+Angeles,+CA/@33.9651082,-118.4505142,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bac03052685d:0x8f1101b40d5c8d3c Aaron ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles)
Some unknowns here, Aaron...is it a single wire on supports? A wire fence is a grid of wires in many people's minds, and that's mostly a random chunk of metal as far as being a radio antenna. If it is a single wire on supports, are the supports non-conductive? Because the bike path is parallel to the salt water, your Beverage effect may be quite compromised by the water's electrical conductivity.I suspect you might just get extra signal strength without much directional effect.As for hooking up to it, that would depend on what sort of radio you're using. How would you hook up a random wire to that radio? That might be a good starting point. Good luck with this, Nick At 22:51 11-05-15, you wrote: I didn't have my radio with me at the time, but there is a steel wire fence on a bike path in Venice CA which is around 1000 feet. Could this work as a pre-made beverage? Can you tap a beverage with a simple coil around it, or what is the best approach? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Venice,+Los+Angeles,+CA/@33.9651082,-118.4505142,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bac03052685d:0x8f1101b40d5c8d3c Aaron ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles)
---BeginMessage--- Usually I just put my radio on the fence and it boosts reception strength significantly. Unfortunately it'd be untuned, so local stations would likely overload the receiver, negating most of the advantage and masking the weaker signals that otherwise would be heard. 73, Stephen On Monday, May 11, 2015 3:52 PM, Aaron Kreider aa...@campusactivism.org wrote: I didn't have my radio with me at the time, but there is a steel wire fence on a bike path in Venice CA which is around 1000 feet. Could this work as a pre-made beverage? Can you tap a beverage with a simple coil around it, or what is the best approach? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Venice,+Los+Angeles,+CA/@33.9651082,-118.4505142,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bac03052685d:0x8f1101b40d5c8d3c Aaron ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ---End Message--- ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] steel wire fence in Venice, CA (near Los Angeles)
---BeginMessage--- I should clarify (in case there's any confusion) that I mean metal fences in general, like chain-link fences or other wire fences. I haven't been to or tried that specific fence. It also works for utility pole ground wires, although in those cases you also have the noise from the powerlines to deal with. I've found even that can vary, too. On Monday, May 11, 2015 3:52 PM, Aaron Kreider aa...@campusactivism.org wrote: I didn't have my radio with me at the time, but there is a steel wire fence on a bike path in Venice CA which is around 1000 feet. Could this work as a pre-made beverage? Can you tap a beverage with a simple coil around it, or what is the best approach? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Venice,+Los+Angeles,+CA/@33.9651082,-118.4505142,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bac03052685d:0x8f1101b40d5c8d3c Aaron ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ---End Message--- ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
