Re: Help me compile for Native Methods?

[Roel Hofkens]

>libHelloNative.so: HelloNative.c HelloNative.h 
> gcc -c -o libHelloNative.so \ 
> -static \ 
> -I/usr/java/include \ 
> -I/usr/java/include/genunix \ 
> HelloNative.c 
>
You don't have the right compiler options here. In the ELF-HOWTO
(maintained by [EMAIL PROTECTED]), you find the following guidelines
for creating shared libraries under paragraph 3.2, Building Libraries:

>To build libfoo.so as a shared library, the basic steps look like this: 
> 
> $ gcc -fPIC -c *.c 
> $ gcc -shared -Wl,-soname,libfoo.so.1 -o libfoo.so.1.0 *.o 
> $ ln -s libfoo.so.1.0 libfoo.so.1 
> $ ln -s libfoo.so.1 libfoo.so 
> $ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=`pwd`:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH 
> 
>This will generate a shared library called libfoo.so.1.0, and the
>appropriate links for ld (libfoo.so) and the dynamic linker 
>(libfoo.so.1) to find it. To test, we add the current directory to
LD_LIBRARY_PATH. 
> 
>When you're happpy that the library works, you'll have to move it to, say,
>/usr/local/lib, and recreate the appropriate links. 
>Note that the libfoo.so link should point to libfoo.so.1, so it doesn't
need >updating on every minor version number change. 
>The link from libfoo.so.1 to libfoo.so.1.0 is kept up to date by ldconfig,
which on >most systems is run as part of the 
>boot process. 
> 
> $ su 
> # cp libfoo.so.1.0 /usr/local/lib 
> # /sbin/ldconfig 
> # ( cd /usr/local/lib ; ln -s libfoo.so.1 libfoo.so )

This has always worked nicely for me.

Cheers,

Roel

java-plugin for linux/netscape 4.5

[Kuno Skach]

hi!
since i´m currently developing some applets for netscape, and since i
would like to use the blackdown-java-port together with tya to speed up
netscape, i am looking for a java-plug for netscape. i found a dead link
from javasoft to blackdown that should lead to something called
activator. i have searched the archive and the blackdown site but
couldn't find it. does this piece of software still exist? was it
withdrawn? why? 

thanx in advance

nukl
-- 
___
Kuno Skach
Systems Development, Traffic Telematics Applications
Transport Automation Systems

Alcatel Austria, Scheydgasse 41, A-1211 Vienna, Austria
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: (+431) 27722 5865 fax: (+431) 27722 3928

graphics printing in printing

[C.V. Rajagopal]

i have been experimenting with graphics printing in java under linux.

when i press the print button in the print dialog box it gives an error
message like the following

"Could not execute print commands[Ljava.lang.String:080a5470".

but i could print it to a file

please help

linux 2.0.32
java jdk1.1.5 


Rajagopal

River Valley Technologies
STPT, India

Re: java-plugin for linux/netscape 4.5

[Michael Sinz]

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:17:19 +0100, Kuno Skach wrote:

>hi!
>since i m currently developing some applets for netscape, and since i
>would like to use the blackdown-java-port together with tya to speed up
>netscape, i am looking for a java-plug for netscape. i found a dead link
>from javasoft to blackdown that should lead to something called
>activator. i have searched the archive and the blackdown site but
>couldn't find it. does this piece of software still exist? was it
>withdrawn? why? 

Well, the plug-in has not been worked on in a while.  Netscape 4.5
has Java 1.1 built in and they have a JIT that is a bit better than TYA
in their JVM.  (Even the Linux Netscape does on x86 - just like on
Windows x86 systems.)

Sun did much of the original activator work and it is not part of the
JDK 1.1 source license we had.

Michael Sinz -- Director of Research & Development, NextBus Inc.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.nextbus.com
My place on the web ---> http://www.users.fast.net/~michael_sinz

Re: java-plugin for linux/netscape 4.5

[Kuno Skach]

Michael Sinz wrote:

> Well, the plug-in has not been worked on in a while.  Netscape 4.5
> has Java 1.1 built in and they have a JIT that is a bit better than TYA
> in their JVM.  (Even the Linux Netscape does on x86 - just like on
> Windows x86 systems.)

well, _my_ netscape 4.5 does not seem to have a jit. (and it is much
slower than jdk117 with tya) can i download it from somewhere? enable it
somehow?

thanx
nukl
___
Kuno Skach
Systems Development, Traffic Telematics Applications
Transport Automation Systems

Alcatel Austria, Scheydgasse 41, A-1211 Vienna, Austria
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: (+431) 27722 5865 fax: (+431) 27722 3928

Re: java-plugin for linux/netscape 4.5

[Brad Giaccio]

On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:03:46AM -0500, Michael Sinz wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:17:19 +0100, Kuno Skach wrote:
> 
> >hi!
> >since i m currently developing some applets for netscape, and since i
> >would like to use the blackdown-java-port together with tya to speed up
> >netscape, i am looking for a java-plug for netscape. i found a dead link
> >from javasoft to blackdown that should lead to something called
> >activator. i have searched the archive and the blackdown site but
> >couldn't find it. does this piece of software still exist? was it
> >withdrawn? why? 
> 
> Well, the plug-in has not been worked on in a while.  Netscape 4.5
> has Java 1.1 built in and they have a JIT that is a bit better than TYA
> in their JVM.  (Even the Linux Netscape does on x86 - just like on
> Windows x86 systems.)
> 
> Sun did much of the original activator work and it is not part of the
> JDK 1.1 source license we had.
> 

That is truely a shame the netscape vm has to many bugs to be relied on for 
development and is barely reliable for a release.

Brad

-- 
--- There are two kinds of knowledge, you either know the answer or
you know where to find it
  -Kane, Johnson, and anonymous

Re: graphics printing in printing

[Thomas Down]

C.V. Rajagopal wrote:
> i have been experimenting with graphics printing in java under linux.
> 
> when i press the print button in the print dialog box it gives an error
> message like the following
> 
> "Could not execute print commands[Ljava.lang.String:080a5470".
> 
> but i could print it to a file

Have you got the X printing library (/usr/X11R6/lib/libXp.so on my
machine) installed?  If not, try upgrading to the latest version of
XFree86.

Thomas
-- 

Downloading JDK or Linux

[Pent, Mike]

Steve,

When I try to access the mirror sites, via your 'here' links, I
receive the following error:

Not Found

The requested URL /java-linux/Mirrors.cgi was not found on this server.

Am I doing something wrong, or do those links need to be changed?

Thanx.

Mike.

Michael A. Pent
Wireless Data & Messaging
Sprint PCS
913.859.1102
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Tony Pujals]

Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?

If I recall correctly, it indicated that 1.2 was successfully running on
Intel, but still needed testing.

Is there something about the license with Sun that restricts us from being
able to check out a current snapshot? I understand that the port may not be
ready for prime time, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who urgently needs
to get my hands on it... Outside of Sun explicitly forbidding it, I can't
see any real good reasons for not letting people access what's been done by
the porting team so far.

(If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
not researching the archives.)

Sincerely,

Tony

--
Tony Pujals
ObjectMedia, Inc.

Tel:(408) 255-2700x101
Fax:(408) 255-5553
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:http://www.objectmedia.com

Unite for Java - Join the Java Lobby Now!
http://www.javalobby.org

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that that Swing"

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Nathan Meyers]

Tony Pujals wrote:

> Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
> information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
> 
> (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
> not researching the archives.)

The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule #1
of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance than to
advertise it :-).

Nathan

-
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Tony Pujals]

Ouch!  ;-)

(But I'd still like to know what happened to the web site information?)

Tony

At 10:14 AM 2/16/99 +, you wrote:
>Tony Pujals wrote:
>
>> Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
>> information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
>> 
>> (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
>> not researching the archives.)
>
>The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule #1
>of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance 
>than to
>advertise it :-).
>
>Nathan
>
>-
>This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
>http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
>
>


--
Tony Pujals
ObjectMedia, Inc.

Tel:(408) 255-2700x101
Fax:(408) 255-5553
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:http://www.objectmedia.com

Unite for Java - Join the Java Lobby Now!
http://www.javalobby.org

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that that Swing"

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Bruce R Miller]

On Feb 16, 10:14am, Nathan Meyers wrote:
> Subject: Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???
> Tony Pujals wrote:
> > (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
> > not researching the archives.)
>
> The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule
#1
> of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance than
to
> advertise it :-).

What's not clear from the archives is why all of a sudden the prediction of an
imminent appearance of JDK1.2  has been _removed_, in fact, any mention of it
at all!  It brings to mind all sorts of evil and insidious subterfuge!!!
 JDK1.2 for Linux has been erased from the face of the earth!!!  It never
happened!
Who might want it to disappear? .. oh never mind :>

I could only speculate that the info was removed in the misguided hope that it
would eliminate the endless questions about 1.2
... Well, _that_ obviously worked! :>



-- 
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://math.nist.gov/~BMiller/

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Esteban Lugo Perea]

please somebody help me. A hacker suscribed me on this list and I don't
know how to unsuscribe

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Nathan Meyers wrote:

> Tony Pujals wrote:
> 
> > Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
> > information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
> > 
> > (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
> > not researching the archives.)
> 
> The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule #1
> of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance than to
> advertise it :-).
> 
> Nathan
> 
> -
> This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
> http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
> 
> 
> 

___
Porque es hora de demostrarle al resto de America quienes somos y para
que estamos:

COLOMBIA RUMBO A LA VICTORIA EN LA COPA AMERICA 99


Angel Azul / Blue Angel

Esteban Lugo.
Hincha de Millos. Interista. Barcelonista.

Have a nice day!

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Nathan Meyers]

Tony Pujals wrote:

> Ouch!  ;-)
> 
> (But I'd still like to know what happened to the web site information?)
> 
> Tony

Fair enough desire. Those of us who've been on the list awhile have endured
frequent storms of "where is JDK1.2?" activity, and perhaps our fuses have
become a little short. We're all anxious for the bits; a perusal of the archives
will turn up those discussions and even some progress reports -- hence my
impatience with someone who admitted not doing the homework. Granted, it would
be nice to keep the site a bit more up-to-date -- that's also been discussed --
but that's not getting top priority at the moment.

Nathan


> At 10:14 AM 2/16/99 +, you wrote:
> >Tony Pujals wrote:
> >
> >> Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
> >> information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
> >> 
> >> (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
> >> not researching the archives.)
> >
> >The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule
#1
> >of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance 
> >than to
> >advertise it :-).
> >
> >Nathan
> >
> >-
> >This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
> >http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
>   Tony Pujals
>   ObjectMedia, Inc.
> 
> Tel:  (408) 255-2700x101
> Fax:  (408) 255-5553
> Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web:  http://www.objectmedia.com
> 
> Unite for Java - Join the Java Lobby Now!
> http://www.javalobby.org
> 
> "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that that Swing"
> 
> 
> 


-
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/

New Dual Mount Copy Holder by Rubbermaid

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   *** Evaluation version ***
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Re: Mailing List

[Wheeler House]

unsubscribe
At 04:16 PM 2/14/99 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I would like to be taken off your mailing list.
>
>

FAQs and mailing list

[John Goerzen]

GRR...

I'm getting a bit ticked with the endless "unsubscribe" posts to the list,
and the JDK 1.2 questions.

First, why are we not using cookies to confirm subscribe and unsubscribe
requests?  Seems like a prudent thing to do.

Secondly, Majordomo has features to identify admin requests posted to the
list (these posts with just the word unsubscribe in them) and bounce them to
the list owner instead.  These ought to be enabled.  This way, we don't get
clueless people that throw away the instructions they got when they
subscribed filling mailboxes of lots of other people.

Third, instructions for unsubscribing ought to be in a footer tacked on to
messags.

Finally, a FAQ aboug JDK 1.2 ought to be posted periodically.

These all sound like reasonable and common-sense things to do,

John

Re: New Dual Mount Copy Holder by Rubbermaid

[Stephen Martin]

> Sender:  Robert Craig Corp.
> Phone:   1-800-890-7510
> Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Details: http://www.1vm.com/~rcc
> Remove:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

Look a 1-800 number that's still connected! Need I say more?

Steve
-- 
 __
Stephen Martin _   _   |/_ \ MORTICE KERN SYSTEMS INC.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ,/ \ / \  | / |(  |  185 Columbia Street West
(519)883-3215|   |   | |/  | \ /   Waterloo, Ontario
Fax: (519)884-8861   |   |   | | \ | _) Canada   N2L 5Z5
\__/

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Joel McCarty]

Well guys - I too am desperate to see JDK1.2 (so I can stop developing on my NT box
at work and get back to Linux) But I just wanted to say thanks to all you porters
out there putting in the hours to get us a port at all. It's appreciated

Joel McCarty

Nathan Meyers wrote:

> Tony Pujals wrote:
>
> > Ouch!  ;-)
> >
> > (But I'd still like to know what happened to the web site information?)
> >
> > Tony
>
> Fair enough desire. Those of us who've been on the list awhile have endured
> frequent storms of "where is JDK1.2?" activity, and perhaps our fuses have
> become a little short. We're all anxious for the bits; a perusal of the archives
> will turn up those discussions and even some progress reports -- hence my
> impatience with someone who admitted not doing the homework. Granted, it would
> be nice to keep the site a bit more up-to-date -- that's also been discussed --
> but that's not getting top priority at the moment.
>
> Nathan
>
> > At 10:14 AM 2/16/99 +, you wrote:
> > >Tony Pujals wrote:
> > >
> > >> Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
> > >> information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
> > >>
> > >> (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance for
> > >> not researching the archives.)
> > >
> > >The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal rule
> #1
> > >of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance
> > >than to
> > >advertise it :-).
> > >
> > >Nathan
> > >
> > >-
> > >This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
> > >http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >   Tony Pujals
> >   ObjectMedia, Inc.
> >
> > Tel:  (408) 255-2700x101
> > Fax:  (408) 255-5553
> > Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Web:  http://www.objectmedia.com
> >
> > Unite for Java - Join the Java Lobby Now!
> > http://www.javalobby.org
> >
> > "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that that Swing"
> >
> >
> >
>
> -
> This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
> http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/

Re: JDK 1.2 Snapshots???

[Wheeler House]

I have the same problem-unsubscribe!!

At 01:36 PM 2/16/99 -0500, Esteban Lugo Perea wrote:
>
>please somebody help me. A hacker suscribed me on this list and I don't
>know how to unsuscribe
>
>On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Nathan Meyers wrote:
>
>> Tony Pujals wrote:
>> 
>> > Not long ago (not much more than a week ago), the web site had some
>> > information about the 1.2 port. Where did it go?...
>> > 
>> > (If this issue has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance
for
>> > not researching the archives.)
>> 
>> The issue has been discussed extensively... see the archives. Cardinal
rule #1
>> of laziness: if you're going to be lazy, it's wiser to pretend ignorance
than to
>> advertise it :-).
>> 
>> Nathan
>> 
>> -
>> This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
>> http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>___

>Porque es hora de demostrarle al resto de America quienes somos y para
>que estamos:
>
>COLOMBIA RUMBO A LA VICTORIA EN LA COPA AMERICA 99
>
>
>Angel Azul / Blue Angel
>
>Esteban Lugo.
>Hincha de Millos. Interista. Barcelonista.
>
>Have a nice day!
>
>

Re: FAQs and mailing list

[Richard Jones]

John Goerzen wrote:
[Spam, unsubscribe, FAQs]

I think we really need to host this mailing
list somewhere where it will actually be
properly set up and managed. I am prepared
to do this, on a 24/7 connected machine
at the ISP where I work, but since I have had
absolutely no response from the real owners of
the list concerning the above configuration
problems, I don't expect to be able to set
up an `approved' list with all the appropriate
redirections from java.blackdown.org and
links from their website. So, who runs this
list?

Rich.

-- 
- Richard Jones. Bibliotech: http://www.bibliotech.co.uk/  -
- Embryonic homepage at: http://www.annexia.org/   -
- You are currently the 3,119,344,290th visitor to this signature. -
-Original message content Copyright (C) 1998 Richard Jones.-

Java-Linux enthusiasts

[Raju Karia]

Having worked for a long time now with peers involved in software
development (Java), I loosely categorize them as belonging to one of
the following groups :

1. Java enthusiasts but BORGed : Use Java extensively, but on Win32
95/98/NT
   only. Have never used any other platforms for development/deployment.

2. Java evangelists : 100% Pure Java promulgators. Believe that the OS
is
   irrelevant when developing applications. Dual
   boot between Linux and at least one of NT/98/Solaris x86/BeOS for
cross
   platform testing.

3. Java and Linux equi-evangelists : Use Java for most or all
development
   but predominantly on Linux. Are desperate for JDK 1.2 on Linux.
   Reluctantly have Windoze installed to run the latest APIs in Java.
   Believe that the Java + Linux combination is the platform of the
future.
 
4. Linux evangelists : Linux is the future. Java is a fad that will
   probably be overtaken by something else eventually. Think that Java
   does not have the best licensing model (it's not GPL). Java is slow
   because Perl kicks ass in CGI (have never heard of servlets). Can't
   understand why we don't just have a Java to native compiler,
especially
   one to Linux.

Admittedly, these are very discrete categories and most (all)
individuals
would belong to more than one. I think that the bulk of Java developers
in the world belong to category 1 (why else did Visual Cafe win this
year's InfoWorld award ?!). As for myself - somewhere between 2 and 3.

Feedback, comments, criticisms - fire away.

Raju Karia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Java-Linux enthusiasts

[John Goerzen]

A valid categorization, I believe.  I clearly belong best to #4, but a
difference is that I believe that Linux will be overtaken by something else. 
Hurd, for instance, when it gets more stable (but we're looking at years
here).  

Java has serious problems with speed, bloat, licensing and open-ness.  Its
cross-platform nature prevents it from being useful for certain types of
programming that are best done in C; for instance, high-usage web servers or
NFS.  I also believe that applets are a fairly odd idea, and are not done in
a good manner.  Most that I've seen have very little use.

On the other hand, I believe Java is almost ideal for GUI design, especially
for the client in client-server programming.  A GUI interface is sitting
idle over 99% of the time, so speed is not so vital here.  Cross-platform
capabilities are a big win; a universal network client can be a big time
saver for people that need clients on lots of platforms.  I, for one, much
prefer the Unix development environment, and this allows programs to run in
Win32 platforms while we wait for Windows to finish dying :-)

> 4. Linux evangelists : Linux is the future. Java is a fad that will
>probably be overtaken by something else eventually. Think that Java
>does not have the best licensing model (it's not GPL). Java is slow
>because Perl kicks ass in CGI (have never heard of servlets). Can't
>understand why we don't just have a Java to native compiler,
> especially
>one to Linux.

I would certainly not use Java for CGI.  libapache-mod-perl, FastCGI, etc.
if necessary.

Status of java-linux?

[John Stracke]

The java-linux page () seems to be
dead--the links to download stuff are broken; in fact, all of
http://java.blackdown.org/java-linux/ is gone.  Did you run into
problems?

--
/==\
|John Stracke   | My opinions are my own |S/MIME & HTML OK |
|[EMAIL PROTECTED]|==|
|Chief Scientist|NT's lack of reliability is only surpassed|
|Appoint.Net, Inc.  | by its lack of scalability. -- John Kirch|
\==/




CUBElink Internet Services.

Whatever happened...

[Mario Camou]

...to http://java.blackdown.org/ ?

I just went in and there's some sort of discussion server...

Re: JavaLinux for servlets

[Kevin Hester]

> I would certainly not use Java for CGI.  libapache-mod-perl, FastCGI, etc.
if necessary.

I'd definitely encourage anyone to use servlets with wild abandon.  So easy
and clean - I haven't had to write CGI cruft in over a year.  In exchange
for servlets I have a logical/maintainable tree of server side classes.

Kevin

Re: JavaLinux for servlets

[John Goerzen]

On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:34:03PM -0800, Kevin Hester wrote:

> 
> > I would certainly not use Java for CGI.  libapache-mod-perl, FastCGI, etc.
> if necessary.
> 
> I'd definitely encourage anyone to use servlets with wild abandon.  So easy
> and clean - I haven't had to write CGI cruft in over a year.  In exchange
> for servlets I have a logical/maintainable tree of server side classes.

But what techincal advantage do they really give?  Java is slower, uses more
system resources, etc.

John

Re: Java-Linux enthusiasts

[Joel Shellman]

John Goerzen wrote:
> A valid categorization, I believe.  I clearly belong best to #4, but a
> difference is that I believe that Linux will be overtaken by something else.
> Hurd, for instance, when it gets more stable (but we're looking at years
> here).

I think I might second this--I like Linux and all, but I'm starting to
discover various problems with it (well, everything has problems I
suppose...)

> Java has serious problems with speed, bloat, licensing and open-ness.  Its
> cross-platform nature prevents it from being useful for certain types of
> programming that are best done in C; for instance, high-usage web servers or
> NFS.  I also believe that applets are a fairly odd idea, and are not done in
> a good manner.  Most that I've seen have very little use.

I don't believe you're being fair to applets with that last sentence.
Just because so many people create completely worthless applets doesn't
mean it isn't being used in a good way somewhere--like corporate
Intranets that you probably haven't seen.

> On the other hand, I believe Java is almost ideal for GUI design, especially
> for the client in client-server programming.  A GUI interface is sitting
> idle over 99% of the time, so speed is not so vital here. 

Wierd. This is my biggest (only?) complaint against Java is the very
slow GUI it runs. I run Java servlets and they do wonderfully. But
running a GUI written in Java? No thanks... too slow.

> Cross-platform
> capabilities are a big win; a universal network client can be a big time
> saver for people that need clients on lots of platforms.

Amen.

> I would certainly not use Java for CGI.  libapache-mod-perl, FastCGI, etc.
> if necessary.

I would certainly like to see some benchmarks comparing speed of C/C++
written FastCGI verses Java servlets (with a good JIT). I'm pretty sure
servlets outrun anything else, just wondering how it compares there.

And... I recently moved our web sites and clients from Solaris to Linux
boxes. One of our services is written in Java servlets. The move was a
total breeze (tar--ftp--untar). One of our clients had some C++ CGI
programs. It was a week or two before all the problems were ironed out.
Still trying to recompile some of them.
-- 
Joel Shellman
knOcean Interactive Corporation
http://corp.knOcean.com/

Re: JavaLinux for servlets

[David Harvill]

Overall, the servlets do not use more system resources.  CGI has to spawn
an entire new process (with full memory overhead) for each incoming
request.  Java starts up the process (and memory overhead) only once, and
simply gives out a new Thread to handle the requesting.

-dave

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, John Goerzen wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:34:03PM -0800, Kevin Hester wrote:
> 
> But what techincal advantage do they really give?  Java is slower, uses more
> system resources, etc.
> 
> John
> 
> 

Re: JavaLinux for servlets [off-topic]

[Daniel W. Dulitz x108]

Kevin Hester writes:
> John Goerzen writes:
> > I would certainly not use Java for CGI.  libapache-mod-perl, FastCGI, etc.
> > if necessary.
> 
> I'd definitely encourage anyone to use servlets with wild abandon.  So easy
> and clean - I haven't had to write CGI cruft in over a year.  In exchange
> for servlets I have a logical/maintainable tree of server side classes.

I second that.

John, you wonder about the technical advantages of Java.  Java is all
about balancing easy to write and easy to read code against runtime
performance.  Think C versus assembly language.  And the real question
is, "Is the runtime performance of Java adequate?"  For all but the
tiniest web servers, the answer is yes.  Is servlet development time
less than Perl development time?  For substantial apps, we have always
found that to be the case.  Are Java servlets more maintainable over
time than Perl?  I don't think that's even a serious question.

Are you doing database work?  PHP3 is a great tool for integrating
databases with the web, but try doing a sophisticated interactive user
interface with PHP3 -- it bogs down your server and produces really
abysmal client-side performance when compared to applet+servlet.  And
the code is a nightmare to maintain.

For me, the clue is that you've only seen cute applets, not useful
ones.  That's a big indication that you're not using real
client-server over the web.  What do I mean by "real" client-server?
I mean the case where you have a "real" software system -- not the toy
programs we tend to think of when we think of the (consumer) web --
with a user interface, some non-database-related processing, and one
or more databases that the server talks with while doing that
processing.

If that's what your problem looks like (and that's what a lot of
enterprise software looks like), CGI is a joke.  Sure, you can spend a
while getting your database interface to talk with your C++ server,
and you can spend ages getting your C++ server integrated with CGI --
and after all that, you end up writing a Java applet because it's the
only portable way to present an interactive GUI via a browser.  So you
spend time interfacing your applet with CGI, debugging the whole mess,
and then it still runs slowly.

With servlets and applets, you write your applet, it communicates
directly with the servlet via RMI, the servlet communicates directly
with the database via JDBC, and you don't have any integration and
debug problems.  And because the servler is threaded, initial
connection speeds blow away CGI.

Best,

daniel dulitz   Peak Performance Real-Time DSP
State College, PA

Re: JavaLinux for servlets

[Robert Ritchy]

David Harvill wrote:

> Overall, the servlets do not use more system resources.  CGI has to spawn
> an entire new process (with full memory overhead) for each incoming
> request.  Java starts up the process (and memory overhead) only once, and
> simply gives out a new Thread to handle the requesting.
>
> -dave
>

In addition to the above - portability.  I just finished a complete a servlet
solution for a BIG company on my dinky pentium 75 linux laptop (apache/jrun).  The
installation on their site (Solaris/NES/JRun Pro) was MINIMAL with no
environment/configuration changes except for the addition of the path to the new
servlet.  I just uploaded the classes and html templates and updated the jrun
configuration file.

>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, John Goerzen wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:34:03PM -0800, Kevin Hester wrote:
> >
> > But what techincal advantage do they really give?  Java is slower, uses more
> > system resources, etc.
> >
> > John
> >
> >


begin:vcard 
n:Ritchy;Robert
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:BDM Denver
adr:;;1999 Broadway - Suite 2000;Denver;CO;80202;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Software Development TL
x-mozilla-cpt:;2
tel;work:303-672-8917 / 247-1150 ex 8917
fn:Robert Ritchy
end:vcard

Re: About Communication Ports API...

[Jeff Galyan]

Julian Bolivar wrote:
> 
> Dear Srs.
> 
> Can I  use the Sun's Communication API in the Linux JDK 1.1.7v1a,
> because I need access the PC's Serial and Parallel Ports.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Julian Bolivar

Unless there is Win32-dependent native code in the Communications API (I
haven't played with it myself), you should be able to use it with no
trouble at all. If there is any native code, and if it doesn't include
the sources, someone should arrange with Sun to port the native portions
of the package.

-- 
Jeff Galyan
http://www.anamorphic.com
http://www.sun.com
jeffrey dot galyan at sun dot com
talisman at anamorphic dot com
Sun Certified Java(TM) Programmer
==
Linus Torvalds on Microsoft and software development:
"... if it's a hobby for me and a job for you, why are you doing such a
shoddy job of it?"

The views expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer.

Sun Microsystems, Inc., has no connection to my involvement with the
Mozilla Organization.

Unsubscribing

[Robert Ritchy]

I've been replying to individuals about unsubscribing from this list but
I'm beginning to feel that there are a lot of poor souls out there with
the same "hacker" problem.  Since I haven't seen a public mailing about
this in awhile - here goes my best shot (please correct me if I'm
wrong):

If you're no longer  interesting in this mailing list, just send an
empty mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject:
'unsubscribe'.

NOT in the body of the message - the subject.

Rob




begin:vcard 
n:Ritchy;Robert
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:BDM Denver
adr:;;1999 Broadway - Suite 2000;Denver;CO;80202;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Software Development TL
x-mozilla-cpt:;2
tel;work:303-672-8917 / 247-1150 ex 8917
fn:Robert Ritchy
end:vcard

Re: Help me compile for Native Methods?

[Jeff Galyan]

Make sure that:
 #1: you're calling System.loadLibrary(someLib) [ I'm assuming you are ]
 #2: when you compile your native library, you are exporting the symbols
you need to call from your Java program [ this was a real pain in the
butt on a Mac ]


Peter Gutowski wrote:
> 
> I've used Cay Horstmann's and Gary Cornell "Core Java" books and have been
> pretty happy with them. The second volume claims to help you create native
> methods that can be called from java code. Their examples use Solaris and
> WindozNT only though..
> 
> The instructions for using javah -jni to create a .h file are clear.
> Everything seems quite smooth until I try to run the java program that
> calls the C code. Here's what I get:
> 
> $ java HelloNative
> @@Native.so: ELF file's phentsize not the expected size
> (libHelloNative.so)
> java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: greeting
> at HelloNative.main(HelloNative.java:10)
> $
> 
> I'm guess I'm not sure what compile options I need to be using to make
> java happy. My Make file (currently) looks something like this:
> 
> libHelloNative.so: HelloNative.c HelloNative.h
> gcc -c -o libHelloNative.so  \
> -static \
> -I/usr/java/include \
> -I/usr/java/include/genunix \
>  HelloNative.c
> 
> The java program calling the C function is quite simple:
> 
> public class HelloNative {
>   public native static void greeting();
> 
>   static {
> System.loadLibrary ( "HelloNative" );
>   }
> 
>   public static void main ( String args[] ) {
>   HelloNative hn = new HelloNative();
>   hn.greeting();
>   }
> 
> }
> 
> The C program is equally simple:
> #include "HelloNative.h"
> #include 
> 
> JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_HelloNative_greeting
>   ( JNIEnv *env, jclass cl) {
>   printf ( "Hello Native World" );
> }
> 
> All of this is *similar* to the example in the book but I am not sure what
> I need to do to make it work. Any ideas?
> 
> Peter Gutowski
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.powervue.com/~peterg

-- 
Jeff Galyan
http://www.anamorphic.com
http://www.sun.com
jeffrey dot galyan at sun dot com
talisman at anamorphic dot com
Sun Certified Java(TM) Programmer
==
Linus Torvalds on Microsoft and software development:
"... if it's a hobby for me and a job for you, why are you doing such a
shoddy job of it?"

The views expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer.

Sun Microsystems, Inc., has no connection to my involvement with the
Mozilla Organization.

Re: JavaLinux for servlets

[John Goerzen]

On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:49:18PM -0500, David Harvill wrote:

> Overall, the servlets do not use more system resources.  CGI has to spawn
> an entire new process (with full memory overhead) for each incoming
> request.  Java starts up the process (and memory overhead) only once, and
> simply gives out a new Thread to handle the requesting.

CGI does not have this drawback when you use FastCGI or mod_perl, so that
case isn't really valid.

Further, the speed comparison between Java and Perl or C can be significant
if your CGI is doing any sort of computation.  Most do :-)

John

Re: JavaLinux for servlets [off-topic]

[John Goerzen]

On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:03:26PM -0500, Daniel W. Dulitz x108 wrote:

> John, you wonder about the technical advantages of Java.  Java is all
> about balancing easy to write and easy to read code against runtime
> performance.  Think C versus assembly language.  And the real question
> is, "Is the runtime performance of Java adequate?"  For all but the
> tiniest web servers, the answer is yes.  Is servlet development time

This is not really the point.  The point is that for a heavily-loaded
server, even a small difference in performance can make a tremendous
difference in the system -- possibly the difference between running well and
not running at all.

> less than Perl development time?  For substantial apps, we have always
> found that to be the case.  Are Java servlets more maintainable over

I do not disagree that Java's strong typing is useful for large apps.

> time than Perl?  I don't think that's even a serious question.

I do disagree that Java is more maintainable than Perl in general.  If you
know Perl, it is quite easy to read and maintain.  The regexp support makes
it far easier to code and maintain anything that parses things that are even
vaguely complex.

> Are you doing database work?  PHP3 is a great tool for integrating
> databases with the web, but try doing a sophisticated interactive user
> interface with PHP3 -- it bogs down your server and produces really
> abysmal client-side performance when compared to applet+servlet.  And
> the code is a nightmare to maintain.

I do not, and have never, reccommended PHP3 for anything "serious", for just
these issues, and others.  But mod_perl and FastCGI are quite good for CGI.

> For me, the clue is that you've only seen cute applets, not useful
> ones.  That's a big indication that you're not using real
> client-server over the web.  What do I mean by "real" client-server?
> I mean the case where you have a "real" software system -- not the toy
> programs we tend to think of when we think of the (consumer) web --
> with a user interface, some non-database-related processing, and one
> or more databases that the server talks with while doing that
> processing.

No, I've seen Java programs, and even a "serious" applet or two.  The point
is that this is not an acceptable or useful paradigm in my opinion.  The
fact that the language used is Java is really irrelevant.

If one really wants this sort of thing, embedded X may be a better solution,
but it has lots of problems, too.  I don't think it's a good solution either
(except perhaps for corporate LANs.)

> If that's what your problem looks like (and that's what a lot of
> enterprise software looks like), CGI is a joke.  Sure, you can spend a
> while getting your database interface to talk with your C++ server,
> and you can spend ages getting your C++ server integrated with CGI --
> and after all that, you end up writing a Java applet because it's the
> only portable way to present an interactive GUI via a browser.  So you

You're clouding the issue.  The point is that HTML itself is not adequate in
the case you're describing.  In fact, the whole Web idea is not adequate
here, and it was never designed to be.

I have never disagreed that a Java-based GUI application (note, not applet)
as a client would be good, and in fact, in the message to which you are
replying, you snipped the part where I said so.

> spend time interfacing your applet with CGI, debugging the whole mess,
> and then it still runs slowly.

> With servlets and applets, you write your applet, it communicates
> directly with the servlet via RMI, the servlet communicates directly
> with the database via JDBC, and you don't have any integration and
> debug problems.  And because the servler is threaded, initial
> connection speeds blow away CGI.

I wish people would stop comparing a current Java idea with an outdated CGI
one.  If you want to compare it to CGI, please do us the favor and compare
it to current CGI ideas.

But you are comparing HTML to something that is not appropriate for HTML.

You're describing a whole application.