Kaffe/AWT
Hi All, My company needs some kind of open-source replacement for AWT, so we can control display better and optimize portions of the rendering for our application. Currently we run Slackware 3.6 (Linux 2.0.35, libc5) and XFree 3.3.5. We've been using Blackdown JDK/JRE 1.1.6 v5. Kaffe 1.0.5 appears to build and install, but fails most (85 of 91) of the tests from "make check". I've tried to compile just the AWT portions, but get many "cyclic inheritance" errors. I'm pretty sure this is because of the way AWTEvent is defined - it declares variables that depend on MouseEvent, FocusEvent and WindowEvent. I'm working on this - meanwhile, any suggestions for quicker alternatives will be gladly accepted if anybody has already solved this problem. Thanks in advance. -- Peter Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
> "Nelson" == Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Newer Sun releases will be native threads only, not green threads. I > asked why, and got two answers: > Hotspot assumes native threads, so a green threads version would be hard. > Thread management is the OS' job, not the application's. I asked someone from the linux team (can't remember who - it'll come to me) about two-tier threading for linux. I was surprised to get an "it's possible" answer rather than the usual "no way." The basis of the answer is that hotspot doesn't want to let the kernel have completely free reign on native threads anyway, so he thought there were already the hooks needed for a hybrid (java-native). > We talked a bit about the second point. I agree in principle, but > Linux' native threads are just not up to the task. They're slow, > heavy, and limited. Hong agreed they weren't great, but expressed > optimism that things would improve. He said that he's been talking > with the Linux thread implementors some, but hadn't been actively > contributing fixes. I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace (best would be in glibc). The kernel folks have some good points about doing it the kernel but seem to have a mental block as to why you'd *ever* want hundreds of threads in a single app. Sadly, I haven't come across anyone who really understands the need and is in the position of doing something about it *and* is up to the task (I know I'm not). Several times I've heard that the mozilla libs have a possible implementation, but I don't know enough about 'em to tell if this is true. cheers, -Michael Thome ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kaffe/AWT
Before they did Kaffe, the folks behind Transvirtual did an AWT-like toolkit called BISS-AWT... you may find that, lacking the dependencies on Kaffe, BISS-AWT is easier to build: http://www.biss-net.com/biss-awt.html And, of course, there's always Swing. Nathan On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 04:55:01AM -0700, peter johnson wrote: > Hi All, > My company needs some kind of open-source replacement for AWT, so we can > control display better and optimize portions of the rendering for our > application. Currently we run Slackware 3.6 (Linux 2.0.35, libc5) and > XFree 3.3.5. We've been using Blackdown JDK/JRE 1.1.6 v5. Kaffe 1.0.5 > appears to build and install, but fails most (85 of 91) of the tests > from "make check". I've tried to compile just the AWT portions, but get > many "cyclic inheritance" errors. I'm pretty sure this is because of > the way AWTEvent is defined - it declares variables that depend on > MouseEvent, FocusEvent and WindowEvent. I'm working on this - > meanwhile, any suggestions for quicker alternatives will be gladly > accepted if anybody has already solved this problem. > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Peter Johnson > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
>I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in >userspace (best would be in glibc). Do any systems that do mixed user/kernel threads work well? I've heard nightmares about Solaris' threading system, with the complication of hybrid threads as the prime culprit. >The kernel folks have some good points about doing it the kernel but >seem to have a mental block as to why you'd *ever* want hundreds of >threads in a single app. Yep, I've heard that too. I agree in principle - if you can avoid having hundreds of threads, that's good. But it's really hard to always rewrite your code to not use threads, and in the long run I think the OS should do that work in most cases, not me. Apache is an interesting compromise here. Multi-threaded, but careful pooling to deal with OS limitations. To be honest, I'm in over my head here. I don't know enough about native threads implementations to really comment. I've heard lots of stories of Linux native threads Java not scaling very well, and I know that the Linux developers have generally not given a very high priority to threading. Combine that with newer versions of Java relying on the OS' threads, and it seems like we might have a train wreck coming. Some work now might avert that. Anyone else want to chime in? BTW, one last JavaOne tidbit - I met the guy at Volano who's done all the VolanoMark benchmarks over the years. Friendly chap, I thanked him for all his benchmarking work. He told me they just recently switched from Solaris x86 to Linux for their own use, I think because one of the VMs (IBM?) finally could handle their load. [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . .. . . . http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kaffe-swing
hi all, I am running kaffe 1.0.5 on my Redhat 6.1 and trying to use swing classes. It is not finding swing classes. e.g. Can''t find class "javax/swing/JFrame" §8 ... How can i get it to work with swing? Which version of swing should i use and where can i find it? Thanks in advance.. -Raj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
On 09-Jun-2000 Michael Thome wrote: > I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace > (best would be in glibc). The kernel folks have some good points > about doing it the kernel but seem to have a mental block as to why > you'd *ever* want hundreds of threads in a single app. I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads? Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads? Thanks, Stefaan -- --PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)-- Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules: The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: kaffe-swing
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Rajesh Patel wrote: What is this? Reply-to: "^X"@lads.is.lmco.com > hi all, > I am running kaffe 1.0.5 on my Redhat 6.1 and trying to use > swing classes. It is not finding swing classes. e.g. > Can''t find class "javax/swing/JFrame" §8 ... > How can i get it to work with swing? Which version of swing should i > use and where can i find it? I don't know, but one of the versions for 1.1? from java.sun.com. If you have that but can't get it to work, try asking on the kaffe mailinglist (www.kaffe.org). I'm sure you'll find more people that know kaffe there than you will here. /Urban -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kaffe-swing
Hi, Just for the info that swing-1.1.1fcs works fine with kaffe and i got it from sun. -Raj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux JDK 1.3.0 updated
Linux JDK 1.3.0 The IBM Developer Kit for Linux(R), Java(TM) 2 Technology Edition, Version 1.3.0 Early Release (Early Release Developer Kit) is a software development kit that can be used to build Java applications on Linux. The Early Release Developer Kit includes development tools, the IBM Java Runtime Environment for Linux, sample code and Java source files. Update: Refresh includes bug fixes for many of the problems reported on the Discussion page. Download here: http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/linuxjdk?open&l=jlbd,t=ljdk2 --- Linux developerWorks Tutorials (www.ibm.com/developer) Rebuilding the old alliance between schools and open source http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/schools.html?open&l=258,t=gr,p=skl Bash by example, Part 3 http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/bash3.html?open&l=258,t=gr,p=bash3 COBOL in an open source future http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/cobol/?open&l=258,t=gr,p=cobl Running TopPage on Linux using Wine http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/toppage/?open&l=258,t=gr,p=tpwine developerWorks and alphaWorks goes wireless Get access to information about new developerWorks Java and Linux resources wirelessly with a Palm VII. dW has a growing collection of free developer resources consisting of developer articles, sample code, news stories, case studies, and tools. In addition you can also keep informed about new and updated technologies added to the alphaWorks website. Download the aW-dW.pqa at: http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/aw.nsf/about?readform&/aw.nsf/html/dW+aW+wireless?open&l=jlbd,t=wrls3 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
On Friday Jun 9, 2000, Stefaan A Eeckels wrote: > > On 09-Jun-2000 Michael Thome wrote: > > I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace > > (best would be in glibc). The kernel folks have some good points > > about doing it the kernel but seem to have a mental block as to why > > you'd *ever* want hundreds of threads in a single app. > I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of > an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads? > Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads? A performance critical application server that needs to handle hundreds of simultaneous requests and wants to keep a pool of threads around so as to not re-instantiate a client thread per incoming request. Just a hypothetical example. :-) -John John Rousseau [EMAIL PROTECTED] SilverStream Software Phone: +1 978 262 3564 2 Federal StreetFax: +1 978 262 3499 Billerica, MA 01821 http://www.silverstream.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
On 09-Jun-2000 Avi Cherry wrote: > >I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of > >an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads? > >Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads? > > Easy. How about any sort of stateful server? IRC. FTP. Whatever. > While the UNIX way of doing this is with select(), and fork() > generally, in Java, you create a thread for each connection that you > want to manage. It makes it MUCH simpler to program. You can easily > open up a few hundred connections in an IRC server. IRC requires one connection to somehow pass information to the others, not (I know zilch about IRC). OK, there the thread model gives you shared memory without setting it up. FTP? I rather have each connection handled by a separate process, it makes it a lot more reliable (Windows has a DoS attack against SMB connections, where one misbehaving client can zap the whole SMB subsystem, which I believe runs as a set of kernel threads). One down, all go. Security is a lot better with separate address spaces: each connection runs with user privileges, which is rather difficult to achieve with a threaded FTP server, I think. Windows is dependent on threads for decent server performance, and even there one would never start "hundreds" of threads (the box just bogs down and never recovers), but one uses a small number of threads serving many sockets per thread. Seriously, "hundreds" of threads in _Java_, the acknowledged speed-demon of languages? Stefaan -- --PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)-- Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules: The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace > (best would be in glibc). While on the surface this looks like the simple solution, in practice it is very difficult to do. It requires that any operation that might block the underlying kernel thread (such as a disk or socket I/O) be actually made non-blocking and the appropriate call to the thread scheduler made at the point where the block would occur. This adds a great deal of complexity, as evidenced by the implementation of green threads itself. Also, if you really want this to work, you need to inform the user-level thread scheduler whenever a kernel thread might block - such as during a page fault. While something like scheduler activations addresses this, it's not easy to build. Matt Welsh, UC Berkeley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
Artur Biesiadowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Of course you can tell: Let's make java support nonblocking io. But it > is not possible for now, JCP process is quite long, We are working on it (I am on the expert group for the JCP specification to add nonblocking I/O APIs to Java). It is slated for JDK version 1.4. This is the earliest it can be done, since 1.3 is already out! Matt Welsh, UC Berkeley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
"Rousseau, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > A performance critical application server that needs to handle > hundreds of simultaneous requests and wants to keep a pool of > threads around so as to not re-instantiate a client thread per > incoming request. This is the scenario we discuss in a paper that I recently wrote, entitled "A Design Framework for Highly Concurrent Systems". You can get it from: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~mdw/papers/events.pdf We detail the problems with threads-based and event-driven programming for building highly-concurrent servers exactly of the sort you describe, and describe a design based on a hybrid between events and threads which allows you to get high performance and get the benefit of straightforward threaded programming. Your suggestion to use thread pools above is telling, since that's core to our model. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear any comments about this if you get a chance to check it out. Matt Welsh, UC Berkeley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JavaOne - no green threads for Linux
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote: > Seriously, "hundreds" of threads in _Java_, the acknowledged speed-demon > of languages? I don't think you'll find too much argument that huge threadcounts do not necessarily add up to brilliant programming. An unfortunate, early design decision against supporting asynchronous I/O methods like select() and poll() has locked many Java apps into devoting one thread per connection - it's taken way too long, but Sun's realization that threads aren't really free will finally result in async I/O support in JDK1.4. Once there, Java too will be able to support many sockets per thread. Nathan > > > Stefaan > -- > --PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)-- > Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules: > The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of > the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent. > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Window Manager ?
Hello Everyone. Are there known Problems with running of of the latest jdks (blackdown, sun, ibm) under X11 but without a Windowmanager ? The application uses only one "Window". Thanks. Oktay Akbal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
