[The Java Posse] Re: Congrats to Jet Brains!

[Alexander Snaps]

Looks much better using the OS X theme on Mac now too...
Alex

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Mark Derricutt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It also looks quite sexy with the Nimbus look and feel:
>
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/3004630082_a4db63c626_o.png
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Patrick Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, so far I'm really pleased with it--the EAPs have really come
>> around in the last couple of weeks. It's a pleasure to use. IDEA 7 is
>> a  bad memory, rapidly fading :).
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --
> Bill Harlan
>
> >
>


-- 
Alexander Snaps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.jroller.com/page/greenhorn
http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandersnaps

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[The Java Posse] Re: Congrats to Jet Brains!

[Mark Derricutt]

It also looks quite sexy with the Nimbus look and feel:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/3004630082_a4db63c626_o.png

Mark

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Patrick Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Yeah, so far I'm really pleased with it--the EAPs have really come
> around in the last couple of weeks. It's a pleasure to use. IDEA 7 is
> a  bad memory, rapidly fading :).
>
> Patrick
> >
>


-- 
"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --
Bill Harlan

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[The Java Posse] Re: Congrats to Jet Brains!

[Patrick Wright]

Yeah, so far I'm really pleased with it--the EAPs have really come
around in the last couple of weeks. It's a pleasure to use. IDEA 7 is
a  bad memory, rapidly fading :).

Patrick
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[The Java Posse] Re: #215 Traits

[Jess Holle]

There are big limitations imposed by dynamic proxies here as I see it.  
Dynamic proxies are beautiful interceptors for one or more interfaces, 
but they themselves are of a synthetic class.

If you have a class A and you want to mix-in/apply an interface to it, 
dynamic proxies could help wire a default implementation around an 
interface, but you'd still have to manually delegate to the proxy from 
your class.  Overall it still leaves a gaping "can't get there from 
here" hole in the middle of things.

John Nilsson wrote:
> I haven't done any benchmarking. But I can't imagine the overhead 
> being "terrible", mesurable: yes, but I hear the reflection stuff in 
> Java is rather quick.
>
> If performance is a problem you could probably use some runtime class 
> generation instead. But I imagine it would take a little more effort 
> to assemble such a system.
>
> BR,
> John
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Casper Bang <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
>
> But aren't dynproxies terribly slow? I thought that's why people
> dabble on invokedynamic.
>
> /Casper
>
> On Nov 6, 8:16 pm, "John Nilsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > It shouldn't be to hard to implement traits as a library in
> current Java
> > using a dynamic proxy.
> > Should make for an interesting project.
> >
> > BR,
> > Jphn
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Mark Derricutt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > > Please please please bring on traits!  I'm somewhat on the
> fence of rather
> > > seeing traits than closures in java sooner than the other.
> >
> > > I'm finding LOTS of places in my code where traits would just
> make things
> > > cleaner.
> >
> > > More and more I think I just want scala :)
> >
> > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, hlovatt
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> > >> I thinks that Traits are a great idea for Java and judging by
> #215 the
> > >> posse, particularly Dick, like them. I wrote about them for
> Java 7 in:
> >
> > >>http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=220916
> >
> > >> What do you think?
> >
> > > --
> > > "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct
> optimized code." --
> > > Bill Harlan
>
>
>
> >


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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[jluehe]

On Nov 6, 6:17 am, Jevgeni Kabanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> AFAIK it's the same hot-deploy as supported by Jetty, Tomcat, Weblogic
> and a bunch of others. They all support "session-retention" as well.
> GlassFish just caught up with the others.

How would you do this in Tomcat? Are you sure you are referring to
"session retainment during redeploy", as opposed to "session
retainment across server restarts", which is different? I know Tomcat
supports the latter (and so does GlassFish), but I don't think it
supports the former.

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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[jluehe]

On Nov 6, 6:17 am, Jevgeni Kabanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> AFAIK it's the same hot-deploy as supported by Jetty, Tomcat, Weblogic
> and a bunch of others. They all support "session-retention" as well.
> GlassFish just caught up with the others.

Are you sure? For example, how do you configure this on Tomcat? We're
not talking about session retention across server restarts, but
session retention across application redeployments.

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[The Java Posse] Re: NetBeans... nice!

[Mark Fortner]

I think the Eclipse keyboard mapping for NetBeans really makes the
transition easier to make.  I find myself recommending NetBeans more and
more.  And everyone I show it to seems to like it.  The NetBeans.tv demos
really help spread the word as well.

Mark

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Marcelo Fukushima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> i cant speak for everyone, but once you're used to an IDE, its hard to
> change
> at least it is for me anyway
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:16 AM, kibitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm tellin ya, NetBeans is the best!  (best free Java IDE). I CANNOT
> > understand why people like Eclipse.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> []'s
> Marcelo Takeshi Fukushima
>
> >
>


-- 
Mark Fortner

blog: http://feeds.feedburner.com/jroller/ideafactory

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[The Java Posse] Congrats to Jet Brains!

[Mark Derricutt]

Congrats to all the fine folk at Jet Brains on the birth of their new baby
IDEA 8 - I think its time to go play some snooker and smoke some stoges to
celebrate.

Mark

-- 
"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --
Bill Harlan

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[The Java Posse] Re: #215 Traits

[John Nilsson]

I haven't done any benchmarking. But I can't imagine the overhead being
"terrible", mesurable: yes, but I hear the reflection stuff in Java is
rather quick.
If performance is a problem you could probably use some runtime class
generation instead. But I imagine it would take a little more effort to
assemble such a system.

BR,
John

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Casper Bang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> But aren't dynproxies terribly slow? I thought that's why people
> dabble on invokedynamic.
>
> /Casper
>
> On Nov 6, 8:16 pm, "John Nilsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It shouldn't be to hard to implement traits as a library in current Java
> > using a dynamic proxy.
> > Should make for an interesting project.
> >
> > BR,
> > Jphn
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Mark Derricutt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Please please please bring on traits!  I'm somewhat on the fence of
> rather
> > > seeing traits than closures in java sooner than the other.
> >
> > > I'm finding LOTS of places in my code where traits would just make
> things
> > > cleaner.
> >
> > > More and more I think I just want scala :)
> >
> > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, hlovatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >> I thinks that Traits are a great idea for Java and judging by #215 the
> > >> posse, particularly Dick, like them. I wrote about them for Java 7 in:
> >
> > >>http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=220916
> >
> > >> What do you think?
> >
> > > --
> > > "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
> --
> > > Bill Harlan
> >
>

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[The Java Posse] Re: NetBeans... nice!

[Josh Juneau]

Indeed, Netbeans is nice and 6.5 is great...


Josh Juneau
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
http://www.gathereventplanning.com
Twitter ID:  javajuneau



On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> All the mentionings here and there about NetBeans on the podcast got
> me motivated to give it a try. I'm a long time joyful Intellij user,
> but at my current company we are using Eclipse. We're considering
> switching to Maven builds, and we would love to find an IDE that is
> well integrated with Maven so that we can describe a project once (via
> the pom), and have that description apply to unattended builds as well
> as the IDE. The Maven plug-in for Eclipse was a little ugly (like a
> lot of things in Eclipse) so I tried NetBeans. It is one of the
> cleanest, tightest IDE's I have seen in a long time. Where has it been
> hiding? The Maven plug-in works beautifully. It makes NetBeans feel
> like it was designed to work with Maven.Very nice work!
>
> PS: Unfortunately we won't be able to switch to NetBeans just yet
> because there isn't a Perforce plug-in for it.
>
> >
>

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[The Java Posse] Re: #215 Traits

[Casper Bang]

But aren't dynproxies terribly slow? I thought that's why people
dabble on invokedynamic.

/Casper

On Nov 6, 8:16 pm, "John Nilsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It shouldn't be to hard to implement traits as a library in current Java
> using a dynamic proxy.
> Should make for an interesting project.
>
> BR,
> Jphn
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Mark Derricutt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Please please please bring on traits!  I'm somewhat on the fence of rather
> > seeing traits than closures in java sooner than the other.
>
> > I'm finding LOTS of places in my code where traits would just make things
> > cleaner.
>
> > More and more I think I just want scala :)
>
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, hlovatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> I thinks that Traits are a great idea for Java and judging by #215 the
> >> posse, particularly Dick, like them. I wrote about them for Java 7 in:
>
> >>http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=220916
>
> >> What do you think?
>
> > --
> > "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --
> > Bill Harlan
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[The Java Posse] Re: #215 Traits

[John Nilsson]

It shouldn't be to hard to implement traits as a library in current Java
using a dynamic proxy.
Should make for an interesting project.

BR,
Jphn

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Mark Derricutt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Please please please bring on traits!  I'm somewhat on the fence of rather
> seeing traits than closures in java sooner than the other.
>
> I'm finding LOTS of places in my code where traits would just make things
> cleaner.
>
> More and more I think I just want scala :)
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, hlovatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I thinks that Traits are a great idea for Java and judging by #215 the
>> posse, particularly Dick, like them. I wrote about them for Java 7 in:
>>
>> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=220916
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --
> Bill Harlan
>
>
> >
>

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[The Java Posse] Re: episode 215: reflection and generics

[Casper Bang]

It's actually all described in chapter 7.5 of "Java Generics and
Collections" which the Posse have endorsed in the past. Basically you
can introspect it (look for ParameterizedType) and it can help you in
a few instances, but in my humble experiences those solutions often
turns ugly and fragile (played with that a while ago:
http://coffeecokeandcode.blogspot.com/2008/05/type-strategy-pattern.html).

/Casper

On Nov 6, 3:13 pm, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Viktor Klang wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
>
> >     Viktor Klang wrote:
> >>     Actually guys, referential equality is kind of retarded, so the
>
> >>     Map.class == Map.class
>
> >>     example is bad.
>
> >>     However,
>
> >>     Map.class.equals(Map.class) SHOULD
> >>     return false
> >     No, it MUST not -- else loads of things break.
>
> > If you want to make an omelet, you've got to break some eggs...
>
> Yes, but breaking eggs just cause you feel like it is for toddlers, not
> chefs.
>
> >     Further == and .equals MUST give the same results for Class
> >     objects -- else loads of things break.
>
> >     The "ConcreteClass" noted below would not be a Class -- it would
> >     be a new API.
>
> > Yeah, I realize that, that's why I'm moving away from Java.
>
> I'm still missing what the real benefit to having these Class objects be
> unequal is.  It sounds nice in some ivory tower sort of way, but really
> as long as you have access to the fact that the "K" parameter is String
> and the "V" parameter is Integer (and the compiler can use this as well
> to do things like "new V[]"), I don't really see any issue.
>
> --
> Jess Holle
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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Paul Rooney]

Sorry I don't think what level of "save and refresh" is supported by
Glassfish V3.

>From the podcast I got the impression that V3 now has similar
abilities to JavaRebel, in that I can add/delete/update method
signatures (compile on save) and see them immediately on my app server
without restarting my application (like an improved version of hot
code deploy).

Is this the case, or was there some confusion on the podcast?

Thanks, Paul

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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Jevgeni Kabanov]

AFAIK it's the same hot-deploy as supported by Jetty, Tomcat, Weblogic
and a bunch of others. They all support "session-retention" as well.
GlassFish just caught up with the others.

Jevgeni Kabanov

On Nov 5, 9:54 am, "Bjorn Monnens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
> start.
>
> regards
>
> Bjorn

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[The Java Posse] Re: POI stands for....

[Alexey Zinger]

Jeez, I was wondering what was the deal with their choice of acronyms.  While 
funny now, it made it rather difficult to grok their API quickly.

Alexey
2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS)
1992 Kawasaki EX500
http://azinger.blogspot.com
http://bsheet.sourceforge.net
http://wcollage.sourceforge.net


--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Marcelo Fukushima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Marcelo Fukushima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: POI stands for
To: javaposse@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:36 AM

some of the classes are also bitter-named:
HSSF stands for Horrible SpreadSheet Format

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> // shows my age
>
> ...allegedly POI originally stood for "Poor Obfuscation
> Implementation", and no doubt reflects early frustration with the
> arbitrarily silly Microsoft file formats.
>
> But I think at some point relations improved with Microsoft, and so in
> order to play nice, the original unofficial meaning of POI was
> redacted.  Now it doesn't stand for anything.
>
>
>
> >
>



-- 
[]'s
Marcelo Takeshi Fukushima





  
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[The Java Posse] Re: POI stands for....

[Viktor Klang]

It's a café for homeless people in the city where I live...

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Vince O'Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> More importantly, we need to know what RIA stands for.
>
> On Nov 6, 1:19 pm, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > // shows my age
> >
> > ...allegedly POI originally stood for "Poor Obfuscation
> > Implementation", and no doubt reflects early frustration with the
> > arbitrarily silly Microsoft file formats.
> >
> > But I think at some point relations improved with Microsoft, and so in
> > order to play nice, the original unofficial meaning of POI was
> > redacted.  Now it doesn't stand for anything.
> >
>


-- 
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

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[The Java Posse] Re: POI stands for....

[Vince O'Sullivan]

More importantly, we need to know what RIA stands for.

On Nov 6, 1:19 pm, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> // shows my age
>
> ...allegedly POI originally stood for "Poor Obfuscation
> Implementation", and no doubt reflects early frustration with the
> arbitrarily silly Microsoft file formats.
>
> But I think at some point relations improved with Microsoft, and so in
> order to play nice, the original unofficial meaning of POI was
> redacted.  Now it doesn't stand for anything.
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[The Java Posse] HTML browser in the JRE -odd, but think about the possibilities....

[Pete F]

What if...

-Adobe and Microsoft have missed a trick, by jumping directly to an
extensible rich client *that is not html*.


Shouldn't someone, with a platform capable of doing so (ie Java) do an
HTML based rich client??


Why not do for real, what GWT only pretends to do.



  -and hasn't a similar trick worked brilliantly for java once
before...


Precedent:

Smalltalk was just too big a leap for C programmers. Java neatly
filled that hole. It wasn't C, but it looked like C and it provided
the glide path from C to the modern world.

XAML and Flex  (and javaFX) are not HTML   -and they therefore require
everyone to dump all their experience, and infrastructure based around
HTML.

*IF* the JRE included an HTML browser, Java developers could move
smoothly from server+ajax, to server+java_client

It could be like the Java wave of the 90's all over again [man]...

Adobe and Microsoft would hate it and groan about how backward it was,
like Smalltalkers hated java for its pragmatic co-opting of their
dream.

Die-hard Ajaxians would hate it, and grumble about speed -like die-
hard C programmers hated Java for solving in one hit, a bunch of
problems they made their livings trying to solve

Java programmers would be laughing, as they...

a)Wrote RIA's in java whilst leveraging the  ALL THOSE HTML web
frameworks, and ALL THOSE HTML web designers, -while adobe and
microsoft tried to force change

b)Did what GWT only pretends to do (but still using GWT for when there
is no java client  -see what i mean about the html technology re-
use?)

c) Drove right around all that cross browser nonsense

d) Extended the damm browser natively (ah, at last!)

e) Optimised their existing ajax javascript by moving the hot spots to
Java

f) Watched java client adoption climb, as java became THE way to
normalize IE without replacing it

g) Avoided having to make a premature "flash or javaFX" decision  -and
rolled javaFX seamlessly into html for a while until it suited them to
drop the html


I have heard somewhere of Adobe eyeing webkit (!!!)  Danger Wil
Robinson Danger!


Java won once, with a straight down the middle play  -can it win
again?


Dust off that HotJava browser Sun.

Comments? Vote for this question, on the  moderator thing, if you
would like to hear the Posse discuss it


Pete F

-or did i simply miss a meeting?
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[The Java Posse] Re: episode 215: reflection and generics

[Jess Holle]

Viktor Klang wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Viktor Klang wrote:
>> Actually guys, referential equality is kind of retarded, so the
>>
>> Map.class == Map.class
>>
>> example is bad.
>>
>> However,
>>
>> Map.class.equals(Map.class) SHOULD
>> return false
> No, it MUST not -- else loads of things break.
>
>
> If you want to make an omelet, you've got to break some eggs...
Yes, but breaking eggs just cause you feel like it is for toddlers, not 
chefs.
>
> Further == and .equals MUST give the same results for Class
> objects -- else loads of things break.
>
> The "ConcreteClass" noted below would not be a Class -- it would
> be a new API.
>
>
> Yeah, I realize that, that's why I'm moving away from Java.
I'm still missing what the real benefit to having these Class objects be 
unequal is.  It sounds nice in some ivory tower sort of way, but really 
as long as you have access to the fact that the "K" parameter is String 
and the "V" parameter is Integer (and the compiler can use this as well 
to do things like "new V[]"), I don't really see any issue.

--
Jess Holle


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[The Java Posse] Re: NetBeans... nice!

[Marcelo Fukushima]

i cant speak for everyone, but once you're used to an IDE, its hard to change
at least it is for me anyway

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:16 AM, kibitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm tellin ya, NetBeans is the best!  (best free Java IDE). I CANNOT
> understand why people like Eclipse.
> >
>



-- 
[]'s
Marcelo Takeshi Fukushima

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[The Java Posse] Re: POI stands for....

[Marcelo Fukushima]

some of the classes are also bitter-named:
HSSF stands for Horrible SpreadSheet Format

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> // shows my age
>
> ...allegedly POI originally stood for "Poor Obfuscation
> Implementation", and no doubt reflects early frustration with the
> arbitrarily silly Microsoft file formats.
>
> But I think at some point relations improved with Microsoft, and so in
> order to play nice, the original unofficial meaning of POI was
> redacted.  Now it doesn't stand for anything.
>
>
>
> >
>



-- 
[]'s
Marcelo Takeshi Fukushima

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[The Java Posse] POI stands for....

[Rick]

// shows my age

...allegedly POI originally stood for "Poor Obfuscation
Implementation", and no doubt reflects early frustration with the
arbitrarily silly Microsoft file formats.

But I think at some point relations improved with Microsoft, and so in
order to play nice, the original unofficial meaning of POI was
redacted.  Now it doesn't stand for anything.



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[The Java Posse] Re: Influential Java programmers should learn C#

[Pete F]

tee hee

infoq has a new video of Microsoft's Mads Torgersen, at *of all
places* the JVM language summit, quipping *of all things* about them
"not having c# running on the jvm yet"

for people allergic to microsoft, the video is a good place to see
what their take on java next is, without leaving home

Brett writes

>>
LINQ is basically some syntactic sugar over Lambda expressions that
have been in the language since 2.0
<<

No No No No, yes

 -but not really

linq is a lot more than that, but it required the lambda expressions
yes

it is a while bunch of things under one name, but is a serious attempt
to unify oo programming and query  -whilst nudging the formaer towards
a more functional style

watch the Mads Torgersen presentation rather than accept my mangled
description (there is also an interview with erik meijer on se-radio
(bad audio, great guest))

i would add that what linq is *really* about  -is microsoft FREAKING
OUT over many-core, realising that they have to solve the problem
before other, more server centric platforms (where the users helpfully
tend to come to the processors),  hiring Haskell heads like Meijer, to
sit in a bar and have ideas about monadic programming in VB  -and
putting the results in the languages


if you like Mads (he is one of the more likeable ms people imo) grit
your teeth, go to ms channel 9, and find an interview from jaoo with
Gilad Bracha, Erik Meijer and Mads  -he comes across as the straight
guy (who wouldn't with Bracha and Meijer sparring away) but makes some
refreshing candid comments, which gives me some hope for the evil
empire

Pete F


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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Viktor Klang]

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Terracotta does not cover all platforms :-(
>

Yeah, I had grave problems getting Lift to work with Terracotta, so after
lots of time wasted on experimenting on getting it to work, I put that
integration project on the scrapheap.
But I assume you are referring to OS-compatibility, of which I have no
knowledge :/


>
>
> Viktor Klang wrote:
>
> It's rather easy to run Terracotta Session replication and have this
> feature for "free".
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
>> re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
>> that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
>> changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
>> (PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
>> -Alexis
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
>> > stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
>> > spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded an my
>> > hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
>> > well?
>> >
>> > Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
>> >
>> > I just tested it with the standard application server in Netbeans not
>> > really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Bjorn,
>> >>
>> >> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
>> >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
>> >> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
>> >>
>> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
>> >> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
>> >> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with "traditional" Java
>> >> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
>> >>
>> >> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch" (Thursday)
>> >> with an online set of lightning talks :
>> >>
>> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
>> >>
>> >> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
>> >> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> -Alexis
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey,
>> >>>
>> >>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
>> >>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
>> >>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
>> >>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
>> >>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
>> >>> start.
>> >>>
>> >>> regards
>> >>>
>> >>> Bjorn
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Viktor Klang
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
>
>
>
> >
>


-- 
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

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[The Java Posse] Re: episode 215: reflection and generics

[Viktor Klang]

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Viktor Klang wrote:
>
> Actually guys, referential equality is kind of retarded, so the
>
> Map.class == Map.class
>
> example is bad.
>
> However,
>
> Map.class.equals(Map.class) SHOULD return false
>
> No, it MUST not -- else loads of things break.
>

If you want to make an omelet, you've got to break some eggs...


>
>
> Further == and .equals MUST give the same results for Class objects -- else
> loads of things break.
>
> The "ConcreteClass" noted below would not be a Class -- it would be a new
> API.
>

Yeah, I realize that, that's why I'm moving away from Java.


>
>
> --
> Jess Holle
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:38 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>  Peter Becker wrote:
>>
>> I think you probably want something like:
>>
>>   Object -> ConcreteClass(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>>
>> which adds the extra class instances, but they should be very small
>> and not too many.
>>
>> Alternatively you could do:
>>
>>   Object(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>>
>> but then you'd have to store the type parameters on each object, which
>> is probably much more expensive in total. The former approach seems to
>> also match the type model better.
>>
>>
>>  Yes, I was thinking something along the lines of the former.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
>> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Peter Becker wrote:
>>
>> Sorry: I missed that parameter in your method.
>>
>> Wouldn't adding this information lead to a potential explosion of
>> Class instances at runtime similar to C++ templates? OTOH: there are
>> only a limited number of type parameters you'd actually use in your
>> code, so it is probably not too bad -- after all we wouldn't copy the
>> whole code as C++ does, just get a construct refering to the generic
>> class version and storing the type parameters.
>>
>>
>> Avoding this explosion is a benefit of erasure as well.  Dealing with C++ I
>> quickly had dozens and dozens of copies of the same (sizable) object code
>> all due to instantiation with different types -- even where the usage of the
>> types in question (e.g. char*, void*, int*, Foo*, etc, in a vector<>) ended
>> up being 100% equivalent from an object code perspective.  I don't want to
>> go near that sort of issue again.
>>
>> That said, I see no reason to have separate Class objects for
>> Map and Map.  This would lead to bloat and
>> incompatibility.
>>
>> Rather one could have something like a "GenericTypesMap", ala:
>>
>> For class Map, Map would have a GenericTypesMap of
>> {K->String,V->Foo}
>>
>> GenericTypesMap's could be shared across all instances which use the same
>> instantation types and be weakly referenced by them or some such.
>>
>> I'm clearly just throwing together a strawman here, but the idea is to have
>> a separate chunk of runtime data that spells out the generic types used by
>> an instance without (1) breaking of existing Class contracts, explicit or
>> implicit, (2) resulting in duplication of Class objects or other bloat, or
>> (3) breaking interoperability between new and old code.
>>
>> --
>> Jess Holle
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
>> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> getTypeParameters() will tell you that Map is parameterized by K and V
>> and if/how these are contrained by wildcards.
>>
>> It won't tell you that the Map passed to your method is a Map,
>> though.  Map.class covers the generic notion of Map -- it knows nothing
>> about how a particular instance was parameterized and there's no such thing
>> as a Map.class in terms of this being any different than
>> Map.
>>
>> Peter Becker wrote:
>>
>> Like this:
>>
>> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getTypeParameters()
>>  
>> 
>>
>> ?
>>
>>   Peter
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
>> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> For the most part, Java 5 class files contain metadata indicating much of
>> what the source file indicated as far as generics are concerned.  This is
>> certainly the case for field/method/class declarations.  I'm not sure about
>> local variable declarations, though.
>>
>> That said, once one has something like:
>>
>> void  sort( List list ) { ... }
>>
>> one can only determine that 'list' is parameterized by 'T', any
>> extends/super constraints, etc.  The body of sort() here has no other
>> notions about T -- either in the class file or at runtime.  That is
>> erasure.  List.class == List.class == List.class.  This is necessary
>> to keep the existing contracts and is a key benefit to erasure -- both in
>> lack of class bloat and in preservation of existing contracts and
>> compatibility.  One could potentially have a special
>> Class.getGenericTypeInfos(Object) utility that could seperately lookup this
>> info, e.g. by having each obj

[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Jess Holle]

Terracotta does not cover all platforms :-(

Viktor Klang wrote:
> It's rather easy to run Terracotta Session replication and have this 
> feature for "free".
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine  @gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
> Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
> re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
> that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
> changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
> (PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
> -Alexis
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> > So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
> > stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
> > spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded
> an my
> > hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
> > well?
> >
> > Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
> >
> > I just tested it with the standard application server in
> Netbeans not
> > really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> > http://alexis.mp>@gmail.com > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Bjorn,
> >>
> >> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
> >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
> >> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
> >>
> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
> >> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
> >> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with
> "traditional" Java
> >> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
> >>
> >> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch"
> (Thursday)
> >> with an online set of lightning talks :
> >>
> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
> >>
> >> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
> >> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> -Alexis
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey,
> >>>
> >>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that
> glassfish v3
> >>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
> >>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
> >>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that
> seemed
> >>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
> >>> start.
> >>>
> >>> regards
> >>>
> >>> Bjorn
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Viktor Klang
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
> >


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[The Java Posse] Re: episode 215: reflection and generics

[Jess Holle]

Viktor Klang wrote:
> Actually guys, referential equality is kind of retarded, so the
>
> Map.class == Map.class
>
> example is bad.
>
> However,
>
> Map.class.equals(Map.class) SHOULD return false
No, it MUST not -- else loads of things break.

Further == and .equals MUST give the same results for Class objects -- 
else loads of things break.

The "ConcreteClass" noted below would not be a Class -- it would be a 
new API.

--
Jess Holle
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:38 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Peter Becker wrote:
>> I think you probably want something like:
>>
>>   Object -> ConcreteClass(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>>
>> which adds the extra class instances, but they should be very small
>> and not too many.
>>
>> Alternatively you could do:
>>
>>   Object(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>>
>> but then you'd have to store the type parameters on each object, which
>> is probably much more expensive in total. The former approach seems to
>> also match the type model better.
>>   
> Yes, I was thinking something along the lines of the former.
>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>>  wrote:
>>   
>>> Peter Becker wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry: I missed that parameter in your method.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't adding this information lead to a potential explosion of
>>> Class instances at runtime similar to C++ templates? OTOH: there are
>>> only a limited number of type parameters you'd actually use in your
>>> code, so it is probably not too bad -- after all we wouldn't copy the
>>> whole code as C++ does, just get a construct refering to the generic
>>> class version and storing the type parameters.
>>>
>>>
>>> Avoding this explosion is a benefit of erasure as well.  Dealing with 
>>> C++ I
>>> quickly had dozens and dozens of copies of the same (sizable) object 
>>> code
>>> all due to instantiation with different types -- even where the usage 
>>> of the
>>> types in question (e.g. char*, void*, int*, Foo*, etc, in a vector<>) 
>>> ended
>>> up being 100% equivalent from an object code perspective.  I don't want 
>>> to
>>> go near that sort of issue again.
>>>
>>> That said, I see no reason to have separate Class objects for
>>> Map and Map.  This would lead to bloat and
>>> incompatibility.
>>>
>>> Rather one could have something like a "GenericTypesMap", ala:
>>>
>>> For class Map, Map would have a GenericTypesMap of
>>> {K->String,V->Foo}
>>>
>>> GenericTypesMap's could be shared across all instances which use the 
>>> same
>>> instantation types and be weakly referenced by them or some such.
>>>
>>> I'm clearly just throwing together a strawman here, but the idea is to 
>>> have
>>> a separate chunk of runtime data that spells out the generic types used 
>>> by
>>> an instance without (1) breaking of existing Class contracts, explicit 
>>> or
>>> implicit, (2) resulting in duplication of Class objects or other bloat, 
>>> or
>>> (3) breaking interoperability between new and old code.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jess Holle
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> getTypeParameters() will tell you that Map is parameterized by K 
>>> and V
>>> and if/how these are contrained by wildcards.
>>>
>>> It won't tell you that the Map passed to your method is a 
>>> Map,
>>> though.  Map.class covers the generic notion of Map -- it knows 
>>> nothing
>>> about how a particular instance was parameterized and there's no such 
>>> thing
>>> as a Map.class in terms of this being any different than
>>> Map.
>>>
>>> Peter Becker wrote:
>>>
>>> Like this:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getTypeParameters()
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>>   Peter
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For the most part, Java 5 class files contain metadata indicating much 
>>> of
>>> what the source file indicated as far as generics are concerned.  This 
>>> is
>>> certainly the case for field/method/class declarations.  I'm not sure 
>>> about
>>> local variable declarations, though.
>>>
>>> That said, once one has something like:
>>>
>>> void  sort( List list ) { ... }
>>>
>>> one can only determine that 'list' is parameterized by 'T', any
>>> extends/super constraints, etc.  The body of sort() here has no other
>>> notions about T -- either in the class file or at runtime.  That is
>>> erasure.  List.class == List.class == List.class.  This is 
>>> necessary
>>> to keep the existing contracts and is a key ben

[The Java Posse] Re: Chapters for the Javaposse podcast

[Viktor Tamás]

Hi,
it was me who started to write pieces of time information for the
podcasts and this is the old topic:
http://groups.google.hu/group/javaposse/browse_thread/thread/c4489f88ffc5e6ad

Unfortunately I became very busy in the latest months so nowadays I
just read the shownotes when a new episode comes out or listen it
during driving. But if some people would join and we could share tasks
somehow I would presumably restart this activity.
V



On okt. 13, 15:41, "Josh Juneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the great response.  I was unaware that AAC format did not
> work with all MP3 players being that I am not a podcasting aficionado.
>  The explanation you have given makes sense and I can see why it would
> take lots of extra time to incorporate chapters.
>
> I would be interested in providing chapter and time information for
> the podcast, but often times I listen to the shows a week or two after
> they've been posted.  Therefore, I am not sure how many people would
> find the information useful.   If people would still make use of the
> information even if it were posted late then I'd be happy to help out.
>
> Keep up the great show, and thanks again for your time.
>
> Josh Juneau
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]://jj-blogger.blogspot.comhttp://www.gathereventplanning.com
> Twitter ID:  javajuneau
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, BoD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Actually, "chaptering" exists also for mp3s:
> >http://www.id3.org/id3v2-chapters-1.0
>
> > and a tool (guess what: it's in Java!:))
> >http://id3v2-chap-tool.sourceforge.net/
>
> > But of course, approximately 0.000% of all the mp3 players support this.
>
> > BoD
>
> > Dick Wall wrote:
> >> Hi Josh
>
> >> To do this requires using a format like AAC, and this is indeed extra
> >> work. We can't only release an AAC because not all players work with
> >> AAC format files - it tends to be an iPod/Apple thing. MP3 works
> >> everywhere and that is why we use it. We would need to release two
> >> different file types, and on top of that I would need to add the
> >> chapter markers and this would take more time as well (time I really
> >> don't have).
>
> >> For a while, there was a move afoot here on the groups for people to
> >> collaborate and put the times for various "chapters" in the podcast
> >> into a posting that other people could see, so that they could skip
> >> sections that way if they wanted to. It seemed to die after a few
> >> episodes (I think the people doing it lost interest), but I would
> >> encourage people to go with that idea again. I am afraid that I don't
> >> have the time to do chapters for the podcast when it is released
> >> though, and since we would need both MP3 and AAC forms of the file, it
> >> would also double our requirements with libsyn (they charge by the
> >> upload bandwidth rather than the download bandwidth).
>
> >> I would encourage you (or anyone) to provide chapter and time
> >> information here in the groups though. Did anyone else find that
> >> useful?
>
> >> Cheers
>
> >> Dick
>
> >> On Oct 13, 4:42 am, Josh Juneau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Dick-
>
> >>> As if you didn't have enough to do already, I thought of something
> >>> that you could do to enhance the podcast a bit and help silence those
> >>> PC users in the audience.
>
> >>> Many of the podcasts that I listen to use chapters to divide their
> >>> show into different segments.  This allows one to visually read what
> >>> the segment is about via a brief description, and skip to the next
> >>> chapter easily.
>
> >>> Using a feature such as this would allow people to choose which pieces
> >>> of the show that they listen to, and those that they wish to skip.
> >>> That way, us iPhone enthusiasts can enjoy good discussions about the
> >>> product while others can skip it if they wish.
>
> >>> Just a thought...I know that it would add extra work to an already
> >>> excellent podcast.  I really enjoy the show.
>
> >>> Thanks and keep up the good work.
>
> >>> (Written on my iPod touch)
>
> >>> Josh Juneau
> >>> DBA-Application Developer
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[The Java Posse] Re: NetBeans... nice!

[kibitzer]

I'm tellin ya, NetBeans is the best!  (best free Java IDE). I CANNOT
understand why people like Eclipse.
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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine]

... and GlassFish now runs great with Terracotta but I think the point
here is to have it:
- for even cheaper than free, right in the app server, no extra piece required.
- tailored to shorten the traditional development cycle for developers
(not a production feature).
-Alexis

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Viktor Klang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's rather easy to run Terracotta Session replication and have this feature
> for "free".
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
>> re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
>> that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
>> changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
>> (PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
>> -Alexis
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
>> > stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
>> > spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded an my
>> > hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
>> > well?
>> >
>> > Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
>> >
>> > I just tested it with the standard application server in Netbeans not
>> > really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Bjorn,
>> >>
>> >> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
>> >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
>> >> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
>> >>
>> >> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
>> >> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
>> >> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with "traditional" Java
>> >> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
>> >>
>> >> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch" (Thursday)
>> >> with an online set of lightning talks :
>> >>
>> >> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
>> >>
>> >> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
>> >> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> -Alexis
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey,
>> >>>
>> >>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
>> >>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
>> >>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
>> >>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
>> >>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
>> >>> start.
>> >>>
>> >>> regards
>> >>>
>> >>> Bjorn
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Viktor Klang
> Senior Systems Analyst
>
> >
>

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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Viktor Klang]

I already, like John, have it for free with the same stuff that John uses.
:)

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine  wrote:

>
> ... and GlassFish now runs great with Terracotta but I think the point
> here is to have it:
> - for even cheaper than free, right in the app server, no extra piece
> required.
> - tailored to shorten the traditional development cycle for developers
> (not a production feature).
> -Alexis
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Viktor Klang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > It's rather easy to run Terracotta Session replication and have this
> feature
> > for "free".
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
> >> re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
> >> that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
> >> changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
> >> (PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
> >> -Alexis
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
> >> > stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
> >> > spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded an my
> >> > hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
> >> > well?
> >> >
> >> > Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
> >> >
> >> > I just tested it with the standard application server in Netbeans not
> >> > really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Bjorn,
> >> >>
> >> >> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
> >> >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
> >> >> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
> >> >> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
> >> >> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with "traditional" Java
> >> >> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
> >> >>
> >> >> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch" (Thursday)
> >> >> with an online set of lightning talks :
> >> >>
> >> >>
> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
> >> >> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
> >> >>
> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> -Alexis
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hey,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
> >> >>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
> >> >>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
> >> >>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
> >> >>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
> >> >>> start.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> regards
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bjorn
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Viktor Klang
> > Senior Systems Analyst
> >
> > >
> >
>
> >
>


-- 
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Viktor Klang]

It's rather easy to run Terracotta Session replication and have this feature
for "free".

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine  wrote:

>
> Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
> re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
> that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
> changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
> (PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
> -Alexis
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
> > stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
> > spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded an my
> > hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
> > well?
> >
> > Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
> >
> > I just tested it with the standard application server in Netbeans not
> > really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Bjorn,
> >>
> >> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
> >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
> >> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
> >>
> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
> >> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
> >> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with "traditional" Java
> >> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
> >>
> >> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch" (Thursday)
> >> with an online set of lightning talks :
> >>
> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
> >>
> >> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
> >> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> -Alexis
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey,
> >>>
> >>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
> >>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
> >>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
> >>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
> >>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
> >>> start.
> >>>
> >>> regards
> >>>
> >>> Bjorn
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > >
> >
>
> >
>


-- 
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

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[The Java Posse] Re: java rebel and glassfish v3

[Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine]

Active sessions are serialized in memory while redeploying and
re-injected with the classloader of the new application. Of course
that requires a minimum compatibility in the session data (some
changes are supported). Jan Luehe will covers this today at 8:20am
(PST). See http://tinyurl.com/6rttv9
-Alexis

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So If I understand correctly the deploy-on-change really means
> stripping out the loaded class and changing it. So if I change a
> spring controller in my application only that one gets reloaded an my
> hibernate just stays the same? Or does it do a restart of my app as
> well?
>
> Okay I'll look at it tomorrow, maybe even follow a talk if I can.
>
> I just tested it with the standard application server in Netbeans not
> really sure what's used. I think Glassfish.
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bjorn,
>>
>> GlassFish v3 "Prelude" bits are here:
>> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/downloads/v3-prelude.html
>> The "retain sessions" feature is discussed here:
>> http://blogs.sun.com/jluehe/entry/retain_session_data_during_redeployment
>> If you add Compile-on-save and deploy-on-change to the mix, you're
>> indeed close to the save/reload paradigm, yet with "traditional" Java
>> EE development. Pretty cool IMO.
>>
>> More on GlassFish v3 "Prelude" during tomorrow's "launch" (Thursday)
>> with an online set of lightning talks :
>> http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDayOnline+-+GFv3Prelude
>>
>> Also, I'm interested in your Grails experience. Did you grab the
>> Grails add-on from the GlassFish update center?
>>
>> cheers,
>> -Alexis
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Bjorn Monnens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> On one of the last episode the Javaposse mentioned that glassfish v3
>>> supports save and refresh (like you have in php and other
>>> dynamic,scripting languages). Is this already available and did
>>> anybody test it out yet? I played around with grails and that seemed
>>> to work fine up to a certain point where I did have to do a stop
>>> start.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Bjorn
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

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[The Java Posse] Re: Any real Scala products and NetBeans 6.5 RC2 and Scala Support

[Adam G.]

Hey Viktor and Mike,

thanks for the answers. A webframework is indeed very important :) I
was not aware that it is already quite spreaded. I have also seen
already some examples of Scala and Swing, but at the first glance it
looked quite strange to me. I think I will need to spend more time
with Scala and see if I get used to this new syntax and the functional
paradigm.

Cheers,
 Adam
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[The Java Posse] Re: episode 215: reflection and generics

[Viktor Klang]

Actually guys, referential equality is kind of retarded, so the

Map.class == Map.class

example is bad.

However,

Map.class.equals(Map.class) SHOULD return false

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:38 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Peter Becker wrote:
>
> I think you probably want something like:
>
>   Object -> ConcreteClass(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>
> which adds the extra class instances, but they should be very small
> and not too many.
>
> Alternatively you could do:
>
>   Object(String,Foo) -> GenericClass
>
> but then you'd have to store the type parameters on each object, which
> is probably much more expensive in total. The former approach seems to
> also match the type model better.
>
>
>  Yes, I was thinking something along the lines of the former.
>
>  On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>  Peter Becker wrote:
>
> Sorry: I missed that parameter in your method.
>
> Wouldn't adding this information lead to a potential explosion of
> Class instances at runtime similar to C++ templates? OTOH: there are
> only a limited number of type parameters you'd actually use in your
> code, so it is probably not too bad -- after all we wouldn't copy the
> whole code as C++ does, just get a construct refering to the generic
> class version and storing the type parameters.
>
>
> Avoding this explosion is a benefit of erasure as well.  Dealing with C++ I
> quickly had dozens and dozens of copies of the same (sizable) object code
> all due to instantiation with different types -- even where the usage of the
> types in question (e.g. char*, void*, int*, Foo*, etc, in a vector<>) ended
> up being 100% equivalent from an object code perspective.  I don't want to
> go near that sort of issue again.
>
> That said, I see no reason to have separate Class objects for
> Map and Map.  This would lead to bloat and
> incompatibility.
>
> Rather one could have something like a "GenericTypesMap", ala:
>
> For class Map, Map would have a GenericTypesMap of
> {K->String,V->Foo}
>
> GenericTypesMap's could be shared across all instances which use the same
> instantation types and be weakly referenced by them or some such.
>
> I'm clearly just throwing together a strawman here, but the idea is to have
> a separate chunk of runtime data that spells out the generic types used by
> an instance without (1) breaking of existing Class contracts, explicit or
> implicit, (2) resulting in duplication of Class objects or other bloat, or
> (3) breaking interoperability between new and old code.
>
> --
> Jess Holle
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> getTypeParameters() will tell you that Map is parameterized by K and V
> and if/how these are contrained by wildcards.
>
> It won't tell you that the Map passed to your method is a Map,
> though.  Map.class covers the generic notion of Map -- it knows nothing
> about how a particular instance was parameterized and there's no such thing
> as a Map.class in terms of this being any different than
> Map.
>
> Peter Becker wrote:
>
> Like this:
>
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getTypeParameters()
>  
> 
>
> ?
>
>   Peter
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Jess Holle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> For the most part, Java 5 class files contain metadata indicating much of
> what the source file indicated as far as generics are concerned.  This is
> certainly the case for field/method/class declarations.  I'm not sure about
> local variable declarations, though.
>
> That said, once one has something like:
>
> void  sort( List list ) { ... }
>
> one can only determine that 'list' is parameterized by 'T', any
> extends/super constraints, etc.  The body of sort() here has no other
> notions about T -- either in the class file or at runtime.  That is
> erasure.  List.class == List.class == List.class.  This is necessary
> to keep the existing contracts and is a key benefit to erasure -- both in
> lack of class bloat and in preservation of existing contracts and
> compatibility.  One could potentially have a special
> Class.getGenericTypeInfos(Object) utility that could seperately lookup this
> info, e.g. by having each object refer to both its class and its generic
> typing info -- rather than to just the class.  When called by old,
> non-generic-savvy code the generic typing info would be null, of course.
> One could have the compiler do nifty bits with such a getGenericTypeInfos()
> utility so that one could do things like "new T[]" in sort -- throwing a
> runtime exception if the typing info is not present.  This would be undoing
> erasure without blowing new/old code interoperability except where actually
> necessary.
>
> --
> Jess Holle
>
> Christian Catchpole wrote:
>
> Here is my analysis of the situation.  I could be wrong.