RE: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS
Careful now, this is beginning to sound like a "loss of control" issue... > I am tired of the idealism in both ways, tired of 3rd party > insulting me on > my own fucking lists and telling me " you put your work on ^^ > LGPL now suck it > up! you fool!" There have been some insightful and well thought out responses from all sides in this discussion thread, its inevitable that as a project such as jBoss gains a critical mass, there will be new external influences that those who conceived the project may never have dreamed of. Like it or not, there is an implicit responsibility that these things have to be dealt with. I can understand frustration that ones ideas are being taken in new directions. This I fear, is the price of "fame". Matt This email may contain information which is privileged or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please notify the sender immediately and delete it without reading, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person Thank you Check us out at http://www.syntegra.com ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS and computerplanet.com
Title: RE: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS and computerplanet.com Marc, Most people who want to disseminate technology quickly write a book. What better "VIABLE COMMERCIAL PERIPHERAL" could there be. Why don't you be the first to write a book on JBoss and J2EE, make lots of money, help the newbies who complain about lack of good documentation, attract lots of commercial interest, give wannabe portal architects something to advertise etc etc. Then you can go on tour and promote it! I think everyone out there would like it if you and all the other key developers to get rich out of this, (you deserve it more than most), and at the same time maintain your higher moral ethics for the good of all us software developers. I for one would by a couple of copies and distribute it around the office. One to my boss for example. Paul. > -Original Message- > From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2001 6:07 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS > > > ALL RIGHT THAT IS ENOUGH... > > Whatever you guys are looking for, what saddens me is that > you want to hop > on the boat with the first "desconocido" who comes along > rather than invest > that energy in the JBoss website and book. > > You don't understand that we will compete with efforts like > this one. WE > ARE ALL FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION. JBoss Group IS A COMMERCIAL > EXPLOITATION by the developers for the developers, and we > hope to grow it > organically. > > I AM FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION BY OURSELVES. WE will compete with > "red-hats" that crop up and they will compete with us through > JBoss Group. > > JBOSS.ORG WILL SOON BECOME A FULL-FLEDGED PORTAL... he and > other similar > types don't want to help us I understand, but what I don't > understand is > that you guys (core developers) would rather hand it to > someone who just > appeared out of the woodwork RATHER THAN EXPLOIT IT > YOURSELVES. WE NEED TO > ORGANIZE THIS NON-SENSE. > > SO STOP THE BULLSHIT ABOUT NON-COMMERCIAL BLABLABLA, IT IS > NON-SENSE. I > WANT A VIABLE COMMERCIAL PERIPHERAL WORLD AROUND JBOSS. IT > WILL HAPPEN, IT > WILL NEED TO BE SERIOUS ADD-ON STUFF AND WRITTING INTERVIEWS > ABOUT ME OR > RIPPING OF OUR DOCUMENTATION EFFORT ON ANOTHER WEBSITE USING > THE JBOSS NAME > IS JUST NOT GOING TO CUT IT! > > I am tired of the idealism in both ways, tired of 3rd party > insulting me on > my own fucking lists and telling me " you put your work on > LGPL now suck it > up! you fool!" and tired of the "abstract lectures" from the > open source > zealots. > > I WILL MAKE JBOSS GROUP A SUCCESS FOR THE GROUP. > > marcf > > |-Original Message- > |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > danch (Dan > |Christopherson) > |Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:15 PM > |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] computerplanet.com > | > | > |Thank you, Ole, for saying what has been on my mind in a fashion far > |more succinct and calm than I could manage. > | > |I, for one, was happy with the idea that Richard had: the web site he > |proposed may have allowed me to never again have to explain why you > |can't use autoincremented key fields with CMP EJBs (among > other things). > | > |-danch > | > |Ole Husgaard wrote: > | > |> Hi, > |> > |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > |> > |>>Marc, > |>> > |>>If you don't like the fact that the open source licence > (LGPL) for jBoss > |>>allows this, then don't release it as open source. > |>> > |>>If you don't release jBoss as open source then jBoss would > not look like > |>>jBoss at all, maybe more like Microsoft Windows ;-) > |>> > |> > |> I Agree. > |> > |> We cannot first give people permission to redistribute, > |> and then get angry about those who use that permission > |> and call them "free loaders". > |> > |> Marc wrote: > |> > |>>>yes so we put up a website and the technology so free loaders > |>>>like you can > |>>>come along and "for the sake of their business" not > |>>>contribute a bit to the > |>>>project and draw the traffic to themselves. > |>>> > |> > |> Personally, I would be p*ssed off by such a statement. > |> All he wants is to write about JBoss (spreading the > |> word is IMHO fine) and redistribute it (we ga
Re: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS
>I have read every post to jboss-users and jboss-dev for about 6 months, and >haven't seen anything that looks much like an invitation to contribute >something like what Richard proposed to the jboss site. I think what he >wants to do would be very useful, and I agree it would be best as part of >the jboss site. Why didn't you invite him to add it there? You don't >know, maybe he is the worlds best documentation writer.. > >david jencks Actually I'd be more than happy to contribute to the project. I'm more interested in making JBoss accessible, useful and popular then where the work gets done. Your sensible suggestion is much more effective than calling me names or screaming in all caps. So Marc, what would you like to do.? r.b. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS
hey marc, I appreciate your desire to keep jboss stuff on jboss, however I don't think you really need to start by attacking people who say they want to provide information about jboss. Perhaps in the future you could say something like.. We recognize that the information on jboss is incomplete and not always up to date. You can best contribute by working on the area of the jboss project. We want to keep the jboss information on the jboss site for now, as explained at . I have read every post to jboss-users and jboss-dev for about 6 months, and haven't seen anything that looks much like an invitation to contribute something like what Richard proposed to the jboss site. I think what he wants to do would be very useful, and I agree it would be best as part of the jboss site. Why didn't you invite him to add it there? You don't know, maybe he is the worlds best documentation writer.. david jencks On 2001.06.26 16:07:14 -0400 marc fleury wrote: > ALL RIGHT THAT IS ENOUGH... > > Whatever you guys are looking for, what saddens me is that you want to > hop > on the boat with the first "desconocido" who comes along rather than > invest > that energy in the JBoss website and book. > > You don't understand that we will compete with efforts like this one. WE > ARE ALL FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION. JBoss Group IS A COMMERCIAL > EXPLOITATION by the developers for the developers, and we hope to grow it > organically. > > I AM FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION BY OURSELVES. WE will compete with > "red-hats" that crop up and they will compete with us through JBoss > Group. > ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS
I agree. There is still plenty of work that can be done on the documentation. Tobias is heading up a great effort to bring it up to compliance with 2.2 but we will soon be into 2.4 and 3.0 and will need more work there again. There could be more tutorials on how to actually use JBoss (im working on one now that goes from a basic HTML page deployed to JBoss-tomcat/jboss-jetty to actually calling session and entity beans) There is a world of work left and I think it is better to keep the information abut JBoss centralized here at Jboss. I think of it like SCC anywhere else. once it is all over the place, with no mediated checkin and checkout, who knows if the documentation you are reading is valid? Al - Original Message - From: marc fleury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:07 PM Subject: [JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS > Whatever you guys are looking for, what saddens me is that you want to hop > on the boat with the first "desconocido" who comes along rather than invest > that energy in the JBoss website and book. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] FREE LOADERS
ALL RIGHT THAT IS ENOUGH... Whatever you guys are looking for, what saddens me is that you want to hop on the boat with the first "desconocido" who comes along rather than invest that energy in the JBoss website and book. You don't understand that we will compete with efforts like this one. WE ARE ALL FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION. JBoss Group IS A COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION by the developers for the developers, and we hope to grow it organically. I AM FOR COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION BY OURSELVES. WE will compete with "red-hats" that crop up and they will compete with us through JBoss Group. JBOSS.ORG WILL SOON BECOME A FULL-FLEDGED PORTAL... he and other similar types don't want to help us I understand, but what I don't understand is that you guys (core developers) would rather hand it to someone who just appeared out of the woodwork RATHER THAN EXPLOIT IT YOURSELVES. WE NEED TO ORGANIZE THIS NON-SENSE. SO STOP THE BULLSHIT ABOUT NON-COMMERCIAL BLABLABLA, IT IS NON-SENSE. I WANT A VIABLE COMMERCIAL PERIPHERAL WORLD AROUND JBOSS. IT WILL HAPPEN, IT WILL NEED TO BE SERIOUS ADD-ON STUFF AND WRITTING INTERVIEWS ABOUT ME OR RIPPING OF OUR DOCUMENTATION EFFORT ON ANOTHER WEBSITE USING THE JBOSS NAME IS JUST NOT GOING TO CUT IT! I am tired of the idealism in both ways, tired of 3rd party insulting me on my own fucking lists and telling me " you put your work on LGPL now suck it up! you fool!" and tired of the "abstract lectures" from the open source zealots. I WILL MAKE JBOSS GROUP A SUCCESS FOR THE GROUP. marcf |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of danch (Dan |Christopherson) |Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:15 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] computerplanet.com | | |Thank you, Ole, for saying what has been on my mind in a fashion far |more succinct and calm than I could manage. | |I, for one, was happy with the idea that Richard had: the web site he |proposed may have allowed me to never again have to explain why you |can't use autoincremented key fields with CMP EJBs (among other things). | |-danch | |Ole Husgaard wrote: | |> Hi, |> |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: |> |>>Marc, |>> |>>If you don't like the fact that the open source licence (LGPL) for jBoss |>>allows this, then don't release it as open source. |>> |>>If you don't release jBoss as open source then jBoss would not look like |>>jBoss at all, maybe more like Microsoft Windows ;-) |>> |> |> I Agree. |> |> We cannot first give people permission to redistribute, |> and then get angry about those who use that permission |> and call them "free loaders". |> |> Marc wrote: |> |>>>yes so we put up a website and the technology so free loaders |>>>like you can |>>>come along and "for the sake of their business" not |>>>contribute a bit to the |>>>project and draw the traffic to themselves. |>>> |> |> Personally, I would be p*ssed off by such a statement. |> All he wants is to write about JBoss (spreading the |> word is IMHO fine) and redistribute it (we gave him |> permission for that with the LGPL). |> |> However, he did one minor piece of inappropriate |> free loading: He used this list for advertizing |> for his web site, without any concrete references |> to anything JBoss-related. |> IMO, it is OK to use this list for notifying |> interested readers that something JBoss-related |> can be found somewhere. But is is _not_ OK that |> this list be used for advertizing web sites where |> something JBoss-related may be found at some point |> in the future. |> |> |> Best Regards, |> |> Ole Husgaard. |> |> ___ |> JBoss-user mailing list |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user |> | | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
