[JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
Sorry to drag this thread up again from the bowels of cyberspace, but I think the idea is very promising. If this project seems like it will be done well, I should be able to donate some web-space to the cause. There are a number of issues that must be sorted out first and I am sure people will have their own viewpoints: o Licenses. At the risk of starting a religious war, how should the components be licensed? I think using LGPL is probably the answer as it may encourage companies to use the components and perhaps submit improvements. If GPL is used, then it will impact projects which also must use proprietary components. o Usability. One of the biggest barriers for people adopting open source is how difficult it is to set up and configure. The project should aim to zap these problems by producing first class documentation and examples. I'm thinking along the lines of UML, javadoc, manuals for compiling, extending, administrating etc. Of course there is also the potential for revenue streams from printed documentation and distributions. o Re-use of existing component libraries etc. As other people on the list have protested, why re-invent the wheel? Of course, life is rarely that simple. Using other component libraries etc. is likely to only be possible if they follow the same standards, licenses, philosophy etc. My experience has led me to believe that software tends to be less re-usable than we pretend it is. o Professional quality. It should be an objective that the library is production quality. I'm fed up with hearing that free software is bad quality. This misunderstanding comes from peoples expectation that free software behaves like software you pay for. The library should be developed not only with technical objectives, but should also consider the needs of its users. i.e. How can we make improvements without breaking the systems our users have developed? Users shouldn't need to search through mailing lists to understand how to configure a component in a fairly standard way. o Development methodology. It would be nice if the core library was developed using something like extreme programming. With free software, people tend to make ad-hoc contributions, so that would have to be taken into account. However key concepts such as iterative development, release planning, user stories, unit testing and refactoring should be possible. To me all of the above seems important regardless of what features the component library would contain. I think the project itself would be defined more by such standards, than by the contributed code. So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Thanks for your time. -- Peter Beck BEng (hons) - Managing Director, Electrostrata Ltd. http://www.electrostrata.com --+-+-+-+-- Experts in e-business and e-commerce --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
Why not starting that as part of a JBoss Project ? -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de Pete Beck Envoyé : mercredi, 2 octobre 2002 11:27 À : JBoss User Objet : [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited Sorry to drag this thread up again from the bowels of cyberspace, but I think the idea is very promising. If this project seems like it will be done well, I should be able to donate some web-space to the cause. There are a number of issues that must be sorted out first and I am sure people will have their own viewpoints: o Licenses. At the risk of starting a religious war, how should the components be licensed? I think using LGPL is probably the answer as it may encourage companies to use the components and perhaps submit improvements. If GPL is used, then it will impact projects which also must use proprietary components. o Usability. One of the biggest barriers for people adopting open source is how difficult it is to set up and configure. The project should aim to zap these problems by producing first class documentation and examples. I'm thinking along the lines of UML, javadoc, manuals for compiling, extending, administrating etc. Of course there is also the potential for revenue streams from printed documentation and distributions. o Re-use of existing component libraries etc. As other people on the list have protested, why re-invent the wheel? Of course, life is rarely that simple. Using other component libraries etc. is likely to only be possible if they follow the same standards, licenses, philosophy etc. My experience has led me to believe that software tends to be less re-usable than we pretend it is. o Professional quality. It should be an objective that the library is production quality. I'm fed up with hearing that free software is bad quality. This misunderstanding comes from peoples expectation that free software behaves like software you pay for. The library should be developed not only with technical objectives, but should also consider the needs of its users. i.e. How can we make improvements without breaking the systems our users have developed? Users shouldn't need to search through mailing lists to understand how to configure a component in a fairly standard way. o Development methodology. It would be nice if the core library was developed using something like extreme programming. With free software, people tend to make ad-hoc contributions, so that would have to be taken into account. However key concepts such as iterative development, release planning, user stories, unit testing and refactoring should be possible. To me all of the above seems important regardless of what features the component library would contain. I think the project itself would be defined more by such standards, than by the contributed code. So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Thanks for your time. -- Peter Beck BEng (hons) - Managing Director, Electrostrata Ltd. http://www.electrostrata.com --+-+-+-+-- Experts in e-business and e-commerce --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
On 2 Oct 2002, Pete Beck wrote: (...) So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Boss' Beans? -- Jose A. Romero L. E-Commerce / IT @ Onet.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do they want you to go today? --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
JBossBiz (...) So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Boss' Beans? -- Jose A. Romero L. E-Commerce / IT @ Onet.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do they want you to go today? --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
As I started the thread, I suggest to call it: The Wonder Component Library (TWCL) :) Just kidding... ;) Seriously: how about the FCL for the Free Component Library? Cheers, WS --- J. A. Romero L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On 2 Oct 2002, Pete Beck wrote: (...) So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Boss' Beans? -- Jose A. Romero L. E-Commerce / IT @ Onet.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do they want you to go today? --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
Or you could call it FreeJBs - sounds a bit like EJBs (if you pronounce EJB letter by letter) which is what its about, right?). Still, there is a need for agreeing on the scope of that forum - is it only JBoss components, is it EJB components, is it Java components, is it any kind of components... there needs to be a scope. Randahl -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of wonder sonic Sent: 2. oktober 2002 12:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited As I started the thread, I suggest to call it: The Wonder Component Library (TWCL) :) Just kidding... ;) Seriously: how about the FCL for the Free Component Library? Cheers, WS --- J. A. Romero L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On 2 Oct 2002, Pete Beck wrote: (...) So, should we begin something on sourceforge? Anyone thought of a good name? Boss' Beans? -- Jose A. Romero L. E-Commerce / IT @ Onet.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do they want you to go today? --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
onsdagen den 2 oktober 2002 kl 11.56 skrev Sacha Labourey: JBossBiz OSSBliss --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss component library revisited
o Re-use of existing component libraries etc. As other people on the list have protested, why re-invent the wheel? Of course, life is rarely that simple. Using other component libraries etc. is likely to only be possible if they follow the same standards, licenses, philosophy etc. My experience has led me to believe that software tends to be less re-usable than we pretend it is. Yep, and if everybody's response is 'lets write our own' then that will always be the case! Fix the software already in place! What is the point of having multiple component libraries? If there is something you dislike in the current libraries then work with the developers to fix the issue. There is no point in dividing valuable resources just because the current offerings aren't quite what you want. Work with the others not against them. Where would JBoss be now if everyone decided to develop a new app server just because there was something 'not quite right' with it? JBoss has evolved into its current offering because people have taken the time to use it and offer feedback. They have worked with the core developers to improve the product and not tried to compete with it. Please do the same with the libraries. Kev Kevin Conner Orchard Information Systems Limited Newcastle Technopole, Kings Manor Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE1 6PA. United Kingdom Registered in England, Number 1900078 Tel: +44 (0) 191-2032536 Fax: +44 (0) 191 2302515 --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
