[jira] [Commented] (KAFKA-14768) proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for safety
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17696794#comment-17696794
]
fujian commented on KAFKA-14768:
Hi [~showuon]:
I summary the two issues/solutions and create two KIPs related with this Jira
for your review. Thanks.
[KIP-912: Support decreasing send's max block time without worrying about
metadata's fetch - Apache Kafka - Apache Software
Foundation|https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-912%3A+Support+decreasing+send%27s+max+block+time+without+worrying+about+metadata%27s+fetch]
[KIP-913: add new method to provide possibility for accelerate first record's
sending - Apache Kafka - Apache Software
Foundation|https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-913%3A+add+new+method+to+provide+possibility+for+accelerate+first+record%27s+sending]
Regards
Jian
> proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for
> safety
>
>
> Key: KAFKA-14768
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768
> Project: Kafka
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: clients
>Affects Versions: 3.3.1, 3.3.2
>Reporter: fujian
>Assignee: hzh0425
>Priority: Major
> Labels: needs-kip, performance
>
> Hi, Team:
>
> Nice to meet you!
>
> In our business, we found two types of issue which need to improve:
>
> *(1) Take much time to send the first message*
> Sometimes, we found the users' functional interaction take a lot of time. At
> last, we figure out the root cause is that after we complete deploy or
> restart the servers. The first message's delivery on each application server
> by kafka client will take much time.
> So, we try to find one solution to improve it.
>
> After analyzing the source code about the first time's sending logic. The
> time cost is caused by the getting metadata before the sending. The latter's
> sending won't take the much time due to the cached metadata. The logic is
> right and necessary. Thus, we still want to improve the experience for the
> first message's send/user first interaction.
>
> *(2) can't reduce the send message's block time to wanted value.*
> Sometimes our application's thread will block for max.block.ms to send
> message. When we try to reduce the max.block.ms to reduce the blocking time.
> It can't meet the getting metadata's time requirement sometimes. The root
> cause is the configured max.block.ms is shared with "get metadata" operation
> and "send message" operation. We can refer to follow tables:
> |*where to block*
> |*when it is blocked*
> |*how long it will be blocked?*
> |
> |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata|the first
> request which need to load the metadata from kafka| |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.internals.RecordAccumulator#append|at peak
> time for business, if the network can’t send message in short
> time.|
> What's the solution for the above two issues:
> I think about current logic and figure out followed possible solution:
> (1) send one "warmup" message, thus we can't send any fake message.
> (2) provide one extra configure time configure which dedicated for getting
> metadata. thus it may break the define for the max.block.ms a little. what's
> more, it only solves issue 2 instead of issue1.
> (3) add one method to call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without
> using the max.block.ms (PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first
> record's sending and reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull
> Request #13320 · apache/kafka
> (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
>
> _note: org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata_
> ClusterAndWaitTime waitOnMetadata(String topic, Integer partition, long
> nowMs, long maxWaitMs)
>
> __
> after the change, we can call it before the service is marked as ready. After
> the ready. it won't block to get metadata due to cache. And then we can be
> safe to reduce the max.block.ms to a lower value to reduce thread's blocking
> time.
>
> After adopting the solution 3. we solve the above issues. For example, we
> reduce the first message's send about 4s seconds. The log can refer to
> followed:
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq start_
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq end consume
> *4669ms*_
> And after the change, we reduce the max.block.ms from 10s to 2s without worry
> can't get metadata.
>
> {*}So what's your thought for these two issues and the solution I
> proposed{*}. I hope to get your feedback and thought for the issues.
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[jira] [Commented] (KAFKA-14768) proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for safety
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17696089#comment-17696089
]
fujian commented on KAFKA-14768:
Hi [~showuon]:
I create another PR : [KAFKA-14768: add new configure to reduce the
max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull Request #13335 · apache/kafka
(github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13335/files] for your
reference.
The PR is the solution 2 I mentioned. Thought it can't solve the issue 1, but
it can solve issue 2.
WDTY? which one is better? I think combining two of them are better one which
can solve all of the issues. but I think it is also ok for one by one.
Thanks
> proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for
> safety
>
>
> Key: KAFKA-14768
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768
> Project: Kafka
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: clients
>Affects Versions: 3.3.1, 3.3.2
>Reporter: fujian
>Assignee: hzh0425
>Priority: Major
> Labels: needs-kip, performance
>
> Hi, Team:
>
> Nice to meet you!
>
> In our business, we found two types of issue which need to improve:
>
> *(1) Take much time to send the first message*
> Sometimes, we found the users' functional interaction take a lot of time. At
> last, we figure out the root cause is that after we complete deploy or
> restart the servers. The first message's delivery on each application server
> by kafka client will take much time.
> So, we try to find one solution to improve it.
>
> After analyzing the source code about the first time's sending logic. The
> time cost is caused by the getting metadata before the sending. The latter's
> sending won't take the much time due to the cached metadata. The logic is
> right and necessary. Thus, we still want to improve the experience for the
> first message's send/user first interaction.
>
> *(2) can't reduce the send message's block time to wanted value.*
> Sometimes our application's thread will block for max.block.ms to send
> message. When we try to reduce the max.block.ms to reduce the blocking time.
> It can't meet the getting metadata's time requirement sometimes. The root
> cause is the configured max.block.ms is shared with "get metadata" operation
> and "send message" operation. We can refer to follow tables:
> |*where to block*
> |*when it is blocked*
> |*how long it will be blocked?*
> |
> |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata|the first
> request which need to load the metadata from kafka| |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.internals.RecordAccumulator#append|at peak
> time for business, if the network can’t send message in short
> time.|
> What's the solution for the above two issues:
> I think about current logic and figure out followed possible solution:
> (1) send one "warmup" message, thus we can't send any fake message.
> (2) provide one extra configure time configure which dedicated for getting
> metadata. thus it will break the define for the max.block.ms
> (3) add one method to call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without
> using the max.block.ms (PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first
> record's sending and reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull
> Request #13320 · apache/kafka
> (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
>
> _note: org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata_
> ClusterAndWaitTime waitOnMetadata(String topic, Integer partition, long
> nowMs, long maxWaitMs)
>
> __
> after the change, we can call it before the service is marked as ready. After
> the ready. it won't block to get metadata due to cache. And then we can be
> safe to reduce the max.block.ms to a lower value to reduce thread's blocking
> time.
>
> After adopting the solution 3. we solve the above issues. For example, we
> reduce the first message's send about 4s seconds. The log can refer to
> followed:
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq start_
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq end consume
> *4669ms*_
> And after the change, we reduce the max.block.ms from 10s to 2s without worry
> can't get metadata.
>
> {*}So what's your thought for these two issues and the solution I
> proposed{*}. I hope to get your feedback and thought for the issues.
--
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[jira] [Commented] (KAFKA-14768) proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for safety
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17695962#comment-17695962
]
fujian commented on KAFKA-14768:
Hi [~showuon]
I checked the KIP and related JIRA. I think the KIP is trying to solve the
issue by avoid blocking on metadata fetching. In my opinion, it isn't the
right direction:
(1) first record's sending real need the metadata
(2) even we solve the metadata fetching issue. The send still isn't a synced
API. It still block on some others operations such as append. So based on
current status. I think we had no any method to solve it. What's more. the
unasynced api provide the back press's benefit. So it is not worth to take the
complex proposal to solve it.
I will create one new KIP for these related issues. Thanks
Regards
Jian
> proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for
> safety
>
>
> Key: KAFKA-14768
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768
> Project: Kafka
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: clients
>Affects Versions: 3.3.1, 3.3.2
>Reporter: fujian
>Assignee: hzh0425
>Priority: Major
> Labels: needs-kip, performance
>
> Hi, Team:
>
> Nice to meet you!
>
> In our business, we found two types of issue which need to improve:
>
> *(1) Take much time to send the first message*
> Sometimes, we found the users' functional interaction take a lot of time. At
> last, we figure out the root cause is that after we complete deploy or
> restart the servers. The first message's delivery on each application server
> by kafka client will take much time.
> So, we try to find one solution to improve it.
>
> After analyzing the source code about the first time's sending logic. The
> time cost is caused by the getting metadata before the sending. The latter's
> sending won't take the much time due to the cached metadata. The logic is
> right and necessary. Thus, we still want to improve the experience for the
> first message's send/user first interaction.
>
> *(2) can't reduce the send message's block time to wanted value.*
> Sometimes our application's thread will block for max.block.ms to send
> message. When we try to reduce the max.block.ms to reduce the blocking time.
> It can't meet the getting metadata's time requirement sometimes. The root
> cause is the configured max.block.ms is shared with "get metadata" operation
> and "send message" operation. We can refer to follow tables:
> |*where to block*
> |*when it is blocked*
> |*how long it will be blocked?*
> |
> |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata|the first
> request which need to load the metadata from kafka| |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.internals.RecordAccumulator#append|at peak
> time for business, if the network can’t send message in short
> time.|
> What's the solution for the above two issues:
> I think about current logic and figure out followed possible solution:
> (1) send one "warmup" message, thus we can't send any fake message.
> (2) provide one extra configure time configure which dedicated for getting
> metadata. thus it will break the define for the max.block.ms
> (3) add one method to call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without
> using the max.block.ms (PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first
> record's sending and reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull
> Request #13320 · apache/kafka
> (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
>
> _note: org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata_
> ClusterAndWaitTime waitOnMetadata(String topic, Integer partition, long
> nowMs, long maxWaitMs)
>
> __
> after the change, we can call it before the service is marked as ready. After
> the ready. it won't block to get metadata due to cache. And then we can be
> safe to reduce the max.block.ms to a lower value to reduce thread's blocking
> time.
>
> After adopting the solution 3. we solve the above issues. For example, we
> reduce the first message's send about 4s seconds. The log can refer to
> followed:
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq start_
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq end consume
> *4669ms*_
> And after the change, we reduce the max.block.ms from 10s to 2s without worry
> can't get metadata.
>
> {*}So what's your thought for these two issues and the solution I
> proposed{*}. I hope to get your feedback and thought for the issues.
--
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[jira] [Commented] (KAFKA-14768) proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for safety
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17695956#comment-17695956
]
fujian commented on KAFKA-14768:
Hi [~showuon]
Thanks for your feedback.
For 1, send one "warm up" message : the solution is to send one fake business
record/message before real business records. it will trigger the metadata's
fetching. I think it can solve the issue , but it is bad solution which
involve one fake message. So I don't adopt it.
For 2, Provide one extra time's configure which be dedicated for getting
metadata. thus it will break the definition for the max.block.ms a little. So I
don't adopt it.
For 3，my proposal is this one: add one method to *provide possibility* to
call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without using the max.block.ms
(PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first record's sending and
reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull Request #13320 ·
apache/kafka (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
I will check the KIP for detail and give you one feedback ASAP.
Thanks.
> proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for
> safety
>
>
> Key: KAFKA-14768
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768
> Project: Kafka
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: clients
>Affects Versions: 3.3.1, 3.3.2
>Reporter: fujian
>Assignee: hzh0425
>Priority: Major
> Labels: needs-kip, performance
>
> Hi, Team:
>
> Nice to meet you!
>
> In our business, we found two types of issue which need to improve:
>
> *(1) Take much time to send the first message*
> Sometimes, we found the users' functional interaction take a lot of time. At
> last, we figure out the root cause is that after we complete deploy or
> restart the servers. The first message's delivery on each application server
> by kafka client will take much time.
> So, we try to find one solution to improve it.
>
> After analyzing the source code about the first time's sending logic. The
> time cost is caused by the getting metadata before the sending. The latter's
> sending won't take the much time due to the cached metadata. The logic is
> right and necessary. Thus, we still want to improve the experience for the
> first message's send/user first interaction.
>
> *(2) can't reduce the send message's block time to wanted value.*
> Sometimes our application's thread will block for max.block.ms to send
> message. When we try to reduce the max.block.ms to reduce the blocking time.
> It can't meet the getting metadata's time requirement sometimes. The root
> cause is the configured max.block.ms is shared with "get metadata" operation
> and "send message" operation. We can refer to follow tables:
> |*where to block*
> |*when it is blocked*
> |*how long it will be blocked?*
> |
> |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata|the first
> request which need to load the metadata from kafka| |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.internals.RecordAccumulator#append|at peak
> time for business, if the network can’t send message in short
> time.|
> What's the solution for the above two issues:
> I think about current logic and figure out followed possible solution:
> (1) send one "warmup" message, thus we can't send any fake message.
> (2) provide one extra configure time configure which dedicated for getting
> metadata. thus it will break the define for the max.block.ms
> (3) add one method to call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without
> using the max.block.ms (PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first
> record's sending and reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull
> Request #13320 · apache/kafka
> (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
>
> _note: org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata_
> ClusterAndWaitTime waitOnMetadata(String topic, Integer partition, long
> nowMs, long maxWaitMs)
>
> __
> after the change, we can call it before the service is marked as ready. After
> the ready. it won't block to get metadata due to cache. And then we can be
> safe to reduce the max.block.ms to a lower value to reduce thread's blocking
> time.
>
> After adopting the solution 3. we solve the above issues. For example, we
> reduce the first message's send about 4s seconds. The log can refer to
> followed:
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq start_
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq end consume
> *4669ms*_
> And after the change, we reduce the max.block.ms from 10s to 2s without worry
> can't get metadata.
>
> {*}So what's your thought for these two issues and the solution I
> proposed{*}.
[jira] [Commented] (KAFKA-14768) proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for safety
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17695451#comment-17695451
]
Luke Chen commented on KAFKA-14768:
---
For (1), could you explain what "warmup" messages mean? How could you send
messages before getting broker's metadata (ex: broker address?)
For (2) and (3), it makes sense to me. There was a KIP
([https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-286%3A+producer.send%28%29+should+not+block+on+metadata+update)]
which is trying to fix the similar issue. It didn't get accepted. Maybe you
can check the discussion thread in that KIP for reference.
> proposal to reduce the first message's send time cost and max block time for
> safety
>
>
> Key: KAFKA-14768
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-14768
> Project: Kafka
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: clients
>Affects Versions: 3.3.1, 3.3.2
>Reporter: fujian
>Assignee: hzh0425
>Priority: Major
> Labels: needs-kip, performance
>
> Hi, Team:
>
> Nice to meet you!
>
> In our business, we found two types of issue which need to improve:
>
> *(1) Take much time to send the first message*
> Sometimes, we found the users' functional interaction take a lot of time. At
> last, we figure out the root cause is that after we complete deploy or
> restart the servers. The first message's delivery on each application server
> by kafka client will take much time.
> So, we try to find one solution to improve it.
>
> After analyzing the source code about the first time's sending logic. The
> time cost is caused by the getting metadata before the sending. The latter's
> sending won't take the much time due to the cached metadata. The logic is
> right and necessary. Thus, we still want to improve the experience for the
> first message's send/user first interaction.
>
> *(2) can't reduce the send message's block time to wanted value.*
> Sometimes our application's thread will block for max.block.ms to send
> message. When we try to reduce the max.block.ms to reduce the blocking time.
> It can't meet the getting metadata's time requirement sometimes. The root
> cause is the configured max.block.ms is shared with "get metadata" operation
> and "send message" operation. We can refer to follow tables:
> |*where to block*
> |*when it is blocked*
> |*how long it will be blocked?*
> |
> |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata|the first
> request which need to load the metadata from kafka| |org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.internals.RecordAccumulator#append|at peak
> time for business, if the network can’t send message in short
> time.|
> What's the solution for the above two issues:
> I think about current logic and figure out followed possible solution:
> (1) send one "warmup" message, thus we can't send any fake message.
> (2) provide one extra configure time configure which dedicated for getting
> metadata. thus it will break the define for the max.block.ms
> (3) add one method to call waitOnMetadata with one timeout setting without
> using the max.block.ms (PR: [KAFKA-14768: provide new method to warmup first
> record's sending and reduce the max.block.ms safely by jiafu1115 · Pull
> Request #13320 · apache/kafka
> (github.com)|https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/13320])
>
> _note: org.apache.kafka.clients.producer.KafkaProducer#waitOnMetadata_
> ClusterAndWaitTime waitOnMetadata(String topic, Integer partition, long
> nowMs, long maxWaitMs)
>
> __
> after the change, we can call it before the service is marked as ready. After
> the ready. it won't block to get metadata due to cache. And then we can be
> safe to reduce the max.block.ms to a lower value to reduce thread's blocking
> time.
>
> After adopting the solution 3. we solve the above issues. For example, we
> reduce the first message's send about 4s seconds. The log can refer to
> followed:
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq start_
> _warmup test_topic at phase phase 2: get metadata from mq end consume
> *4669ms*_
> And after the change, we reduce the max.block.ms from 10s to 2s without worry
> can't get metadata.
>
> {*}So what's your thought for these two issues and the solution I
> proposed{*}. I hope to get your feedback and thought for the issues.
--
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