Re: [josm-dev] JOSM donations?
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011, Frederik Ramm wrote: Things for which possible donations could be used: * awards for implementing enhancements, fixing bugs I'm skeptical of such bounties. They haven't worked for OSM in the past and they seldom work for any open source project (why work for free when you can get money). I didn't think about much money here. Only more like a thank's well done in the range of 30-50 EUR. It's meant more like a little encouragement in hope that maybe some of the authors feel like staying with JOSM later as well. Maybe instead of money we make JOSM coffee cups or T-shirts with I did improve JOSM and send them. I also doubt that a bounty system as you call it will work. Also, I expect there to be disagreement over which bits are worth a bounty and which aren't. Probably. But I think for small money the disagreement will not be that much. * awards for improving translations We're an open source project. Translations need to be done by the people who want to use them. If those who would like JOSM in Swahili cannot muster the manpower to produce it then no money in the world will help - it's just like with data imports, you might be able to improve things for a moment by paying someone, but every change that is made will require new effort, and that only works if there are people who care. Here I disagree. Translation issue is a bit more difficult. Contrary to programming software translating is a stupid task which nevertheless needs a lot of experience. A little encouragement may help here. Only very few translators really maintain translation later, so a pay per job improves a translation and result is not different from volunteers. * better SSL certificate Another project has received funding from FOSSGIS for that. I believe we could too, or we could ask OSMF. I already asked FOSSGIS if you remember. Currently my plan would be to implement Flattr and a PayPal donation button (if possible not to prominently on every page, otherwise only on startup page). I see an accountability issue. One person would have to be the account holder for this and nobody would know how much money arrives in that account. Even if the account were handled by someone I trust, there would be enough others who would not trust that person and express suspicion. Yes true. That's why I said it is in any way only for small amounts. E.g. in Germany it would be possible to handle max. 410 EUR a year for a single person. There are always People who can't be satisfied and actually I don't care much about them. Actually I myself think it is may be a good idea to have a bit of own money for josm. When I developed Shareware in the past it was always an encouragement to me when someone actually registered the software and payed the fee. I would take the job of managing that money when necessary, but actually I fear that I may get tax troubles when I'm not very carefully. So e.g. FOSSGIS as donation collector would be fine. But there should be a possibility to mark the money as for JOSM and also to have a chance for us to choose a possibility to spend that money. Currently if FOSSGIS gets money it is FOSSGIS money and we would come as petitioner. I don't like this (see last section below). And own server - you know what I think about JOSM being more and more a client to some JOSM server somewhere. I'd like to get rid of the server instead of building up even more capacity which will doubtless be filled by you with lots of clever Python contraptions that nobody else can maintain. I know, but nevertheless I think you are wrong here. And regarding maintaining I already told you, that it is relatively good documented and easy to do (much easier than at the time when I started and compared to this time it is much more powerful). Please have a look before complaining again. I don't know if you followed admin discussion recently, but TagWatch has constant attacks from FOSSGIS admins and JOSM hosting is also called an accident and we have resource trouble with the tile server from time to time. I simply don't trust FOSSGIS in this topic currently. Instead of collect money then see how we spend it, I'd suggest define what we want, find out what it costs, then ask people to donate to OSM/FOSSGIS for that specific cause. - If a cause can be found that is worth spending money on, and I'm not convinced yet. Which is a good approach for larger issues, but for 10 EUR there and 20 EUR there it is much to much overhead to discuss every issue multiple days. The result simply means it is not done, as I already spend enough time for JOSM - I wont spend time discussing politics again and again for such small amounts. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JOSM donations?
I read you opinion, I accept it, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I won't discuss it on the list. 2011/8/1 Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de On Mon, 1 Aug 2011, Paul Hartmann wrote: after this is mainly flaming against me and no longer private I may answer. And own server - you know what I think about JOSM being more and more a client to some JOSM server somewhere. I'd like to get rid of the server instead of building up even more capacity which will doubtless be filled by you with lots of clever Python contraptions that nobody else can maintain. Exactly, for god's sake, don't put stoeckr in a position where he can hack up even more Perl spagetti, which is closed source for security reasons. I still don't know what your problem is Karl. You have been a valuably contributor in the past but as soon as not everything went the way you wanted it, you went mad. It is an accident this text got to the mailing list, but actually I find it rather strange, that you send flames to Paul, but never had the courage to contact me. Instead of collect money then see how we spend it, I'd suggest define what we want, find out what it costs, then ask people to donate to OSM/FOSSGIS for that specific cause. - If a cause can be found that is worth spending money on, and I'm not convinced yet. Exactly, there is clearly potential for payed work from which both a potential sponsor and the community benefits, without the community to be compromised. It is possible, we've all done this in the past, but I very much doubt that it would be possible again, if stoeckr was involved Well, what do you refer to? I only know one time when we had something like this in the past and this is turnrestrictions plugin. And actually this is an example which shows the opposite: The author got money for it, but he no longer cares about. The plugin was abandoned shortly after it has been created. Nobody does necessary bug fixes ATM. So this is an argument for Frederik, who says that bounties wont work. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) __**_ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/josm-devhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
