Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Pieren wrote: If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Fixing current conflicts is one point. Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. We did setup a shortcut collection page including core and plugin shortcuts and we will choose proper shortcuts in future (which will not be easy, as most keys already have all 8 possibilities used) avoiding rearrangments when possible. But the core is more important. So when we need a specific key in future, the plugins need to step back. Plugins have a lower usage count than core and thus it is logically they can't be considered equal. Beside the two windows auto-installed plugins only 3 others reach more than 20% installations (of all installations which have at least 1 plugin installed, others aren't counted): *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, colliar wrote: together with akks I developed an automatically generated shortcut overview at http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/ShortcutsList Thanks for your work, you two. Why do we have two shortcuts for draw action (A and N) ? Don't know. N is wasted I would say. We should free that for more important stuff. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. We did setup a shortcut collection page including core and plugin shortcuts and we will choose proper shortcuts in future (which will not be easy, as most keys already have all 8 possibilities used) avoiding rearrangments when possible. But the core is more important. So when we need a specific key in future, the plugins need to step back. Plugins have a lower usage count than core and thus it is logically they can't be considered equal. Beside the two windows auto-installed plugins only 3 others reach more than 20% installations (of all installations which have at least 1 plugin installed, others aren't counted): *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools So, by changing the only shortcut used in building_tools plugin, you've inconvienced only 33% of your users? Way to go! Good thing not all of them know about trac and this mailing list. And I see that other two plugins mentioned have to change their shortcuts regularly as well. IZ ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Ilya Zverev wrote: *22.4% utilsplugin2 *24.2% PicLayer *33.2% buildings_tools So, by changing the only shortcut used in building_tools plugin, you've inconvienced only 33% of your users? Way to go! Good thing not all of them know about trac and this mailing list. And I see that other two plugins mentioned have to change their shortcuts regularly as well. And what is your proposal to fix this issue otherwise? Or do you only want to send a useless flame? Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
What do you think about including BuildingTools in core and giving it shortcut like D (builDing, to be easily accessible for fingers) ? Using direct D for delete is causing many problems with accidental deletion, sometimes user does not notice it The idea is not mine, it was proposed on Rusiian forum. Best wishes, Alexei (akks) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On 02/15/2012 10:38 PM, Pieren wrote: On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Dirk Stöcker openstreet...@dstoecker.de wrote: If the default would be to keep everything as is, we copy all these troubles a long time into the future. So we have one break now and later on wikis and forums on docs refer to one setup and not to a user specific setup. Fixing current conflicts is one point. Saying at any time in the future, the josm core can take over existing plugins shortcuts because we find it so cute and plugins will have to accept it (1) is another one. This is a kind of arrongance and disrespect of JOSM plugins users and devs. There are 277 shortcuts registered in 84 plugins and core. You can consider it arrogant, but it is simply necessary in order to keep the key mappings in JOSM core somewhat sane and consistent. Core shortcuts aren't save either: B for Distibute nodes got changed to Shift B, see #7184 for details. Sometimes the decision can be controversial, but I think it is right in this case. As plugin developer, you can basically do what you like, also claim a shortcut like I for Utilsplugin2/IntersectedWaysAction. But you shouldn't be surprised if we need I for JOSM core someday. Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com wrote: As plugin developer, you can basically do what you like, also claim a shortcut like I for Utilsplugin2/IntersectedWaysAction. But you shouldn't be surprised if we need I for JOSM core someday. If you read my OP, I'm not asking very much and could satisfy everybody: - keep one Function key and two or three main keys for plugins. - let plugins ask the user if he wants to keep the current shortcuts or use the old ones in case of conflicts. Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
2012/2/16 Paul Hartmann phaau...@googlemail.com: On 02/16/2012 06:08 PM, Alexei Kasatkin wrote: Delete mode is really for very special tasks only. But just mapping D to building tools is a bit drastic in my opinion. +1 for both. Actually in my mapping normal delete mode is also a rarely used feature (sometimes it's used for nodes, but rarely for whole ways) but delete-mode SHIFT+click (delete segment) is a quite common operation (to split and unglue a way in one operation). What we could do to discourage the use: Make the mode hidden by default (also in expert mode) and put a delete button in the toolbar instead (corresponds to Edit Delete, del key). -1, because of the delete-segment action. cheers, Martin ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] Shortcuts
Hi. The problem with shortcuts is that they all are in unordered mess. And the only way to fix that is to establish a policy on shortcuts. And not we take whichever we like policy. It's more like doing a proper user experience testing. For example, most drawing shortcuts - A, S, Q, X and W until recently - are situated in the left part of the keyboard. So mapping is one hand on those keys, and right hand on a mouse. Now those shortcuts have started to spread to all of the keyboard, dramatically increasing mileage of finger movements. So, even if you don't like moving building_tools back to W, please consider using D for it: delete action so close to S key has been the reason for many swear words and Ctrl+Z (another left-hand shortcut!) presses. IZ ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Shortcuts
D is free now - many thanks to Stoecker! If you do not want to use D for BuildingTools, I propose at least to leave it free for often used plugins - BuildingTools, for some countries - theis cadastre plugins, etc. It would be convenient because of reasons Ilya Zverev explain... ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
