Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 03:30:02PM +0200, Dirk Stöcker wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote: > > >I wish it was that simple. While the Debian Policy does not explicitly > >require splitting out embedded dependencies, it's a very common packaging > >best practice. > > A recommendation is still no requirement. > > >Debian does recommend upstream developers to not include 3rd party code, see: > > While there are common practices to make software packaging friendly, it is > strange when a distribution tries the explain developers how they should > develop their software. Especially as Debian does not follow common > guidelines itself. it is by no means only Debian. Fedora has a very similar policy and I would guess most other Linux distribution too. Richard ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Richard wrote: While there are common practices to make software packaging friendly, it is strange when a distribution tries the explain developers how they should develop their software. Especially as Debian does not follow common guidelines itself. it is by no means only Debian. Fedora has a very similar policy and I would guess most other Linux distribution too. I'm not aware of any other distribution, which tries to tell developers that they should not use another some open source code with valid license or implement workarounds so that packagers are happy. I've never done this or heard of this for openSUSE and I created and maintain a lot of packages there. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Dirk Stöcker wrote: > I'm not aware of any other distribution, which tries to tell developers that > they should not use another some open source code with valid license or > implement workarounds so that packagers are happy. I've never done this or > heard of this for openSUSE and I created and maintain a lot of packages > there. The "problem" isn't using another software/code/lib/etc, but using a local or embedded copy. ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote: Do you understand the point of view of a distribution like Debian? It's clear that you don't share Debians concerns for software freedom and focus on quality. And you're not alone in that, that's why it's always Debian people that bring up those issues, the rest of the Open Source community doesn't care enough. We did major efforts to clear the license situation of JOSM some time ago and also did other requested changes. But what you request has NOTHING to do with the Debian ideals. You can simply request code changes and when your get told that this is nonsense answer with "well, but you don't care for Debian ideals". Do you care enough about this issue to file a bug report so that it doesn't get lost again (e.g. when I give up on josm packaging out of sheer frustration)? Refer to the documentation how to file a bug using the reportbug utilty or plain email: You already know it, so why file a report and then I remember that I tried once and then gave up, so I don't try that again. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: I'm not aware of any other distribution, which tries to tell developers that they should not use another some open source code with valid license or implement workarounds so that packagers are happy. I've never done this or heard of this for openSUSE and I created and maintain a lot of packages there. The "problem" isn't using another software/code/lib/etc, but using a local or embedded copy. No. The request is that we do not use it or make it optional. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2015, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
>
>> Do you understand the point of view of a distribution like Debian?
>>
>> It's clear that you don't share Debians concerns for software freedom
>> and
>> focus on quality. And you're not alone in that, that's why it's always
>> Debian people that bring up those issues, the rest of the Open Source
>> community doesn't care enough.
>
> We did major efforts to clear the license situation of JOSM some time ago
> and also did other requested changes. But what you request has NOTHING to
> do with the Debian ideals. You can simply request code changes and when
> your get told that this is nonsense answer with "well, but you don't care
> for Debian ideals".
The license changes were and are still much appreciated, by myself and the
wider Free Software community. But that's not the topic of discussion,
that's the new JCS requirement.
>> Do you care enough about this issue to file a bug report so that it
>> doesn't get lost again (e.g. when I give up on josm packaging out of
>> sheer
>> frustration)?
>>
>> Refer to the documentation how to file a bug using the reportbug utilty
>> or
>> plain email:
>
> You already know it, so why file a report and then I remember that I tried
> once and then gave up, so I don't try that again.
Because you cannot be bothered I did you a favor and filed the bug report:
https://bugs.debian.org/789161
We already patch the build.xml to append the following to the REVISION file:
Debian-Release: ${debian.version}
We also patch Version.java & AboutAction.java to use this value in the
About box.
Based on the comments in build.xml we should also add the following to
have the value used for the stats identification:
Build-Name: Debian
I've updated the patch to implement the above, and it will be included in
the next upload to unstable. It will then finds its way into the next
Debian and Ubuntu releases.
Kind Regards,
Bas
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Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
> On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: > >>> I'm not aware of any other distribution, which tries to tell developers >>> that >>> they should not use another some open source code with valid license or >>> implement workarounds so that packagers are happy. I've never done this >>> or >>> heard of this for openSUSE and I created and maintain a lot of packages >>> there. >> >> The "problem" isn't using another software/code/lib/etc, but using a >> local or embedded copy. > > No. The request is that we do not use it or make it optional. I only asked if it was possible to make it optional, to quote my initial email: " Would it be possible to make JCS an optional dependency and use the previous caching mechanism if it's not available? This would make it easier to package current JOSM tested snapshots (and backports for these) until JCS is more widely available in distributions (JCS 2.0 is still at beta1). " Thanks for continuously misrepresenting my words. Kind Regards, Bas ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote: No. The request is that we do not use it or make it optional. I only asked if it was possible to make it optional, to quote my initial email: ... Thanks for continuously misrepresenting my words. Do we speak different languages? Where's the different between my "make it optional" and your "make it optional"? Making optional implies a "do not use" function, as that's the sense of making something optional. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On 06/18/2015 03:57 PM, Dirk Stöcker wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote: > >>> No. The request is that we do not use it or make it optional. >> >> I only asked if it was possible to make it optional, to quote my initial >> email: > ... >> Thanks for continuously misrepresenting my words. > > Do we speak different languages? Apparently we do. So it's no use to continue this discussion with you. Kind Regards, Bas -- GPG Key ID: 4096R/6750F10AE88D4AF1 Fingerprint: 8182 DE41 7056 408D 6146 50D1 6750 F10A E88D 4AF1 ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] JCS as optional dependency
On 17.06.2015 00:21, Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote: Would it be possible to make JCS an optional dependency and use the previous caching mechanism if it's not available? We switched to the JCS cache to address an issue we had with the old custom file based caching system: There was no global size limit, so the cache would grow quickly to several GByte of image data. Reverting to the old caching for Debian and Debian-based distributions would be a set-back and would reintroduce a nuisance that we already fixed. On top of that, it would mean considerable additional development effort to maintain both caching systems side by side. All that for a solution that is temporary anyway. We have a small team and I would rather see us going forward. This would make it easier to package current JOSM tested snapshots (and backports for these) until JCS is more widely available in distributions (JCS 2.0 is still at beta1). There are still several missing pieces to get JCS packaged in Debian for example. Still, packaging of JCS for Debian seems to be the best way to fix this problem. Best, Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
