JY's I was closely tracking the discussions on Benny Hinn crusade. So many
views, arguments it was very interesting........but now I feel it has crossed all barriers and are aiming at people than than issue.....and there is one person who is laughing at.....the ENEMY I really dont know whether we should spend so much time in finding who is right / wrong with regard to the crusade I CHALLENGE you people,to take up issues that will help us to grow more closer to Christ and his people. I as an individual look forward from Joynet is to learn more from the rich experiences and knowledge of the my fellow Joynetters, so that I become more encouraged and motivated with regard to my mission in spreading the Love of Christ. Love Jose Antony Bangalore, India Jose Antony Elengical G-03, ITPL Appartments International Tech Park Campus Whitefield , Banaglore -560066 India Res. Phone. + 91 - 80 - 56991107 Off. Phone. + 91 - 80 - 2861511 Hand Phone. + 91 - 98453 43486 Irma Raymond wrote: > Binny, > > Again I ask the same question, What are YOU doing about these certain nagging > issues. I think the problem is in your own mind. It is because of people like > you who only know to bark but cant raise a finger to do any good that are the > reason for the sad state of our community today. > > You have the name of an apostle added to your name, but have you ever lived up > to that name? What have you done till today (except crib and raise allegations) > to promote the unity in the Church where you belong? > > Dont bother replying. I have better work to do than sit and reply to confused > minds like you. > > In Christ service, > Irma > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > > Dear Irma, > > > > Thanks for the reply and I understood the overall thrust of your > > arguments -> we have to safeguard the flock. But my concern is, "What > > about those who are not of His flock?" This crusade is presently with > > that in mind. > > > > You mentioned of certain sects with some dangerous backgrounds - such > > groups are always there & a tiny minority, but we should lift our > > vision > > to higher levels. There are robbers on the highway, but that does not > > mean that vehicles stop plying. The work has to go on, inspite of minor > > impediments. > > > > One way is if the church leaders come together and seriously work on > > ecumenism - unfortuanately, it does not happen, or very infrequent > > contacts (mainly reduced to the one week unity octave programmes). If > > this was done with greater enthusiasm, this would be the right forum to > > address sheep stealing issues. But no one really is interested in unity > > moves - some see this as a threat to their existence, position in the > > current church structure (includes pastors, priests, evangelists, lay > > ministry leaders, etc.) > > > > All churches have this sheep protection mentality, forgetting that > > ultimately there will be one flock and one shepherd - all churches are > > responsible for disunity in different degrees. > > > > The prayer of Jesus "that they may be One" is very important - Jesus is > > reported to have told Vassula Ryden, the well known mystic, that the > > main churches (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox) are like 3 bars that > > refuse to bend. He said that unity has to first be in the heart - then > > we will work in the outside. > > > > Secondly, why this apathy to the Charismatic Renewal movement within > > the > > Church? > > > > I am referring to the very cold attitudes of many clergy (though they > > will openly profess their love when a fr. Augustine vallooran conducts > > a > > meeting, but when the lay people approach him to start a prayer > > meeting, > > all sorts of obstacles are put). Let there be freedom, then the Spirit > > will freely flow, live and let live. > > > > Thirdly, I think it not right to pass judgements like " Most of our > > so-called Spirit-filled > > > Catholics leave and join other sects because they want more... greedy > > hypocrites... " Let us deal with root causes within and walk in love > > with one another - most problems will be taken care of. > > > > Thanks for the valuable points you gave me - but I thought it necessary > > to stress on certain nagging issues which we are always shying away > > from > > - deal with the root and the fruit will be okay. > > > > All the Best, > > Binny John. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Irma Raymond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:00 PM > > To: binny john (WT01 - TECHNOLOGY INFRASTRUCTURE SERVICES (GS)) > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: Will you go to the Benny Hinn Crusade? > > > > > > Dear Binny, > > > > As you rightly said, people are leaving the Catholic Church. Why? > > > Bottomline: Because they don't receive enough when the come to their > > local > > > Church, after being filled at Potta or such similar retreats... > > > > > After being filled what are you supposed to do? Thirst for more and > > more > > and > > > more and more... when will you ever think of giving back what you have > > received? > > > > That's the basic problem isn't it. Most of our so-called Spirit-filled > > > Catholics leave and join other sects because they want more... greedy > > > hypocrites... > > > > > If you really are a Catholic Christian and involved in the Charismatic > > renewal > > > as you claim, then how come you don't know that it is not "a few within > > the > > > Church", but the Mother Church (you could check with your own parish > > priest) > > > that has taken a stand to WARN people against attending the crusade. > > Nobody has > > > called for a "boycott" > > > > Nobody is jealous of Benny Hinn. No one has any reason to be. He is not > > perfect > > > as you rightly said. But have you ever bothered to think of what is > > expected to > > > happen at the venue? > > > > > There are going to be breakaway church groups there from various sects > > waiting > > > to pounce on their most vulnerable prey: the Catholics. Are Catholics > > so > > week- > > kneed? Yes, sadly, many of them are. Do you even know that some of > > these > > sects > > > preach in the name of Jesus but actually practice occult and that some > > of them > > > are even involved in satanic worship? > > > > Benny Hinn is a good preacher and is leading people to Jesus. Fine. But > > Benny > > > Hinn will come and Benny Hinn will go. Who will be responsible for > > those > > little > > > sheep who get wooed into these destructive sects? You? > > > > Being a Catholic what role are you playing in ensuring this doesn't > > happen? > > > > > Again if you really are involved in the Catholic Charismatic movement > > then you > > > should know that today with God's grace there has been a tremendous out > > pouring > > > of the Spirit's power in our very own Catholic Church which has brought > > about > > > so much of renewal. > > > > The priest you are talking about is a close friend and was the main > > celebrant > > > at my Wedding Mass. I'm sure I know him better than you. I think it is > > better > > > if you get your facts right before lifting fingers or throwing > > allegations at > > > your own Mother Church. > > > > In Christ, > > Irma > > > > > > > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > > > > > > At the outset, let me make it clear that I am Catholic Christian > > > involved with the Charismatic Renewal movement also and then begin my > > > point of view on this episode. > > > > > > > I understand that the Church (or more correctly, a few people within) > > > may have reservations on Benny Hinn and may have called for a > > > > 'boycott' > > > by catholics of his Mumabai crusade. > > > > > > > But, more importantly, it raises a few questions: > > > > > > > 1. Are we catholics so weak-kneed that we just blindly fall? > > > > > > > 2. On the one hand, we call for ecumenism, but when an opportunity > > > presents itself to present an united face, our prejudices come to the > > > fore. What a witness in front of our non-christian brethren !!! > > > > > > > 3. Ecumenism means that we focus on the things that unite and not on > > > the things that divide - it calls for a growth in our appreciation of > > > those who differ from us and still meet with them for the greater > > cause > > > of unity. > > > > > > > 4. No one says (even his ardent 'fans') that Benny Hinn is perfect - > > he > > > has many flaws (reflected in some of his teachings), but God is using > > > him - that is what we should respect - His choice - Are we jealous > > of > > > that ??? Maybe ..... ( like Saul being jeaulous of David ) > > > > > > > 5. I suspect that Benny Hinn is just an excuse for some in the > > Catholic > > > Church who are generally alergic to the deeper things that concern > > the > > > Holy Spirit (as demonstrated by the Charismatic /Pentecostal move). > > > > > > > Sometime back, this same Mumbai Church sent a very good Catholic > > > Charismatic priest packing (to Bangalore) - he was moving in the > > gifts > > > of the Spirit & it was too much for some in the hierarchy to stomach. > > > > > > > I guess this is the crux of the problem. Even after 40 years, many in > > > the hierarchy are not with the spirit of the Charismatic movement. > > Some > > > give some lip service encouragement, but actual support and > > involvement > > > is just not there. In this scenario, some of our people who have been > > > renewed by going to Potta, etc., leave the Church because when they > > > come back to the local church, they do not find the atmosphere for > > > their growth in the Spirit. > > > > > > > > > Staid and a run of the mill happy go lucky Christianity cannot > > sustain > > > such people. God is moving in great power today shaking deep seated > > > prejudices, ways of doing things, etc., etc. The Catholic Church is > > > always the mother Church (having the fullness of truth), but it > > should > > > seriously introspect on the question " Why are people leaving ? " > > The > > > answer is more within than without. > > > > > > > Remember the words of Jesus "the sabbath is for man and not man for > > the > > > sabbath. The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath" - let not the > > > means become an end in itself ..... > > > > > > > Let people come to Christ and grow in Him - let us not complicate the > > > simple beauty of the gospel and move ahead in the power of the > > Spirit. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Nirmal Raj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 6:12 PM > > > To: binny john (WT01 - TECHNOLOGY INFRASTRUCTURE SERVICES (GS)) > > > Subject: Fw: Will you go to the Benny Hinn Crusade? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Irma Raymond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 11:17 AM > > > Subject: Will you go to the Benny Hinn Crusade? > > > > > > > > > > > > Will you go to the Benny Hinn Crusade? > > > > > > > > Lakhs of Christians are expected to attend Benny Hinn's 'Festival > > of > > > Blessings' > > > > Crusade in Mumbai this weekend. > > > > > > > > On the other hand the elders, of our Catholic Church have warned us > > > against > > > > attending the event. > > > > > > > > The question in many hearts is: Why this ban? Why is the Church > > > controlling our > > > > freedom to choose? It's not like we are going into another > > religion. > > > Benny > > > Hinn > > > > does preach in the name of Jesus, doesn't he? > > > > > > > > Yes. It is true that Benny Hinn preaches in the name of Jesus. And > > > Jesus > > > > himself said, "whoever is not against me is for me." > > > > > > > > This brings us back to the same question. Why is our Church saying > > > NO? > > > > > > > > The main reason: There are so many controversies about Benny Hinn's > > > > teachings/preachings. If we go into the depths of it we will get > > > lost. > > > So > > > then > > > > what shall we do? Blindly believe what our Church tells us? > > > > > > > > Let's make this simple. Most of us have children. Those who aren't > > > married, or > > > > don't have kids as yet, still have some experience about what I'm > > > about to > > > > share. > > > > > > > > Often we hear our Mothers tell us, "No don't do that. You will get > > > hurt." > > > > Example: "I kept telling my one-year-old Zaneta not to come near > > > anything > > > > that's too hot or she may burn herself. Yet she did not understand. > > > So > > > one > > > day > > > > I let her touch a hot cup of tea and experience what "hot" is. > > Since > > > then > > > all I > > > > have to tell her is "it's hot"! And now she understands. But if she > > > would > > > want > > > > to come and experience how hot a burning flame is, obviously I > > would > > > have > > > to > > > > put my foot down and say "NO". that's not for you. Because I know > > how > > > harmful > > > > it can be for her. > > > > > > > > Similarly the Church is like our Mother. That's why she is called, > > > "Mother > > > > Church". At times the Church has to be strict with us and say, "NO. > > > that's > > > bad > > > > for you. It could harm you". Many of us don't understand. But if we > > > really > > > > trust our Mother then we should believe what she tells us, even if > > > we've > > > never > > > > experienced it ourselves. > > > > > > > > And like in every home there are rebellious children who go against > > > the > > > > warnings of their parents, we too will have rebellious children in > > > the > > > Church, > > > > who will still go for the crusade. So what do we do? Like we do for > > > everyone > > > > else. We pray for them. > > > > > > > > Will you join me in praying for our little rebels? > > > > > > > > Much love n prayers, > > > > Irma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irma Raymond > > > > Mid Day Multimedia Ltd > > > > Mumbai, India > > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > What is impossible for man is Possible for God! > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > Confidentiality Notice > > > > > > > > > The information contained in this electronic message and any > > attachments > > > to this message are intended > > > for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain > > confidential > > > or privileged information. If > > > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender at Wipro > > or > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately > > > and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > Irma Raymond > > Mid Day Multimedia Ltd > > Mumbai, India > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > What is impossible for man is Possible for God! > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > > Confidentiality Notice > > > > > The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments > > to this message are intended > > for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain confidential > > or privileged information. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender at Wipro or > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately > > and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > > > > > > Irma Raymond > Mid Day Multimedia Ltd > Mumbai, India > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > What is impossible for man is Possible for God! > ----------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------- > This mail is generated from http://www.jesusyouth.org > To subscribe to this mailing list send a mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- This mail is generated from http://www.jesusyouth.org To subscribe to this mailing list send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----------------------------------------------------
