[j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Nick Ryce
Another questionagain...

We currently have an issue where we are unable to use tcp-established on egress 
firewall filters. We need this as we have firewall filters per customer applied 
to their own vlan.  If the server initiates a connection we want the return 
traffic allowed ( normally we use tcp-established in cisco land ).

Is there any known work around?

Nick


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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Nick Ryce
Hi Chris,

The issue should be resolved next week in a service release against 11.1R1

http://www.juniper.net/alerts/viewalert.jsp?txtAlertNumber=PSN-2011-04-224actionBtn=Search

Nick

-Original Message-
From: Chris Kawchuk [mailto:juniperd...@gmail.com]
Sent: 28 April 2011 11:59
To: Nick Ryce
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

Why not perform this at the routed layer?

Or, are you routing into the VLAN at the EX4200? (i.e. using the EX4200 as a 
router, not a switch which then uplinks the VLAN to something bigger like an 
MX...)

- Chris.


On 2011-04-28, at 7:35 PM, Nick Ryce wrote:

 Another questionagain...

 We currently have an issue where we are unable to use tcp-established on 
 egress firewall filters. We need this as we have firewall filters per 
 customer applied to their own vlan.  If the server initiates a connection we 
 want the return traffic allowed ( normally we use tcp-established in cisco 
 land ).

 Is there any known work around?

 Nick


 --
 Nick Ryce
 Network Engineer
 Lumison
 t: 0845 1199 900
 d: +44 131 514 4049

 P.S. Fancy some light reading? Clouds to networks, download a Lumison
 whitepaper now at http://www.lumison.net/why-lumison/whitepapers


 
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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Emmanuel Halbwachs
Hello,

Nick Ryce a écrit (Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:35:53AM +0100) :
 We currently have an issue where we are unable to use
 tcp-established on egress firewall filters. We need this as we have
 firewall filters per customer applied to their own vlan.  If the
 server initiates a connection we want the return traffic allowed (
 normally we use tcp-established in cisco land ).

We hit the same problem.

 Is there any known work around?

No. Juniper told us this is a hardware limitation. tcp-flags will
never be supported on EX4200 (don't know for EX8200).

I don't have any knowledge in switch design, but I don't understand
why pattern-matching some bits in TCP headers is difficult on egress.

Also note that syslog on egress firewall filters is also not possible.

Cheers,

-- 
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tel  :  +33 1 45 07 75 54F 92195 MEUDON CEDEX
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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Richard A Steenbergen
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:22:43PM +0100, Nick Ryce wrote:
 Hi Chris,
 
 The issue should be resolved next week in a service release against 
 11.1R1

We hit this issue while testing 11.1R1, and oh what a mighty big screwup 
it was on Juniper's part too (that it even tries to parse the packets 
that are killing it in the first place, when NOT CONFIGURED TO DO SO, 
simply boggles the mind). Unfortunately it's also not the only packet 
of death which crashes the FPCs issue in 11.1 on EX, we also discovered 
another one which DIDN'T get fixed in 11.1S1, so you're taking your life 
into your own hands if you try to run that code in production. Oh and 
BTW, 11.1 on EX will also blackhole your packets while BGP converges 
following bootup, for up to 15 minutes in our testing. Consider 
yourselves warned. :)

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[j-nsp] blocking IPv6 RAs on EX2200/3200/4200

2011-04-28 Thread Chuck Anderson
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:21:31PM +0200, martin papik wrote:
 can I block (drop) router advertisemet (RA) only on specific ports in
 EX2400 (EX2200) configuration.
 The problem is in security, because when any station (PC, notebook)
 connected to LAN, starts own (but not official!!!) RA, I thing that this  
 unoffical RA
 will pass throught switch. RA is using icmpv6 port 134. For example some PCs 
 with
 Windows OS should generate own unoffical RA.Maybe I can use firewall filter, 
 but this
 will generate CPU higher load :-(. Is possible to use another specific conf. 
 command?
 Did anyone solve this type of problem in past?

No, not today.  There is no firewall filter match condition for ICMPv6
types on EX2200/3200/4200, but I've asked for this feature to be
added.  Firewall filters on EX will not cause higher CPU load as far
as I know since they are processed in hardware.

The best I've been able to do so far is block all native IPv6 ethernet
frames based on ethertype, which only works until we start to deploy
IPv6 officially.  Here is an example that blocks IPv6 on a specific
list of ports:

[edit firewall]
family ethernet-switching {
filter DROP-IPv6 {
term DROP-IPv6 {
from {
ether-type 0x86dd;
}
then {
discard;
inactive: log;
count DROP-IPv6;
}
}
term ACCEPT {
then accept;
}
}
}   

[edit interfaces]
interface-range EDGE {
member ge-0/0/[14-46];
member ge-1/0/[0-6];
member ge-1/0/[8-12];
member ge-1/0/[14-47];
member ge-2/0/[0-1];
member ge-2/0/[3-7];
member ge-2/0/[9-47];
member ge-0/0/[0-7];
member ge-0/0/[9-12];
unit 0 {
family ethernet-switching {
filter {
input DROP-IPv6;
output DROP-IPv6;
}
}
}
}
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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Nick Ryce
Thankfully only using ospf and vlans on our ex4200's :)

Nick

-Original Message-
From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:r...@e-gerbil.net]
Sent: 28 April 2011 14:05
To: Nick Ryce
Cc: Chris Kawchuk; juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:22:43PM +0100, Nick Ryce wrote:
 Hi Chris,

 The issue should be resolved next week in a service release against
 11.1R1

We hit this issue while testing 11.1R1, and oh what a mighty big screwup it was 
on Juniper's part too (that it even tries to parse the packets that are killing 
it in the first place, when NOT CONFIGURED TO DO SO, simply boggles the mind). 
Unfortunately it's also not the only packet of death which crashes the FPCs 
issue in 11.1 on EX, we also discovered another one which DIDN'T get fixed in 
11.1S1, so you're taking your life into your own hands if you try to run that 
code in production. Oh and BTW, 11.1 on EX will also blackhole your packets 
while BGP converges following bootup, for up to 15 minutes in our testing. 
Consider yourselves warned. :)

--
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GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)

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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Richard A Steenbergen
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 05:17:46PM +0200, Tore Anderson wrote:
 * Richard A Steenbergen
 
  We hit this issue while testing 11.1R1, and oh what a mighty big screwup 
  it was on Juniper's part too (that it even tries to parse the packets 
  that are killing it in the first place, when NOT CONFIGURED TO DO SO, 
  simply boggles the mind). Unfortunately it's also not the only packet 
  of death which crashes the FPCs issue in 11.1 on EX, we also discovered 
  another one which DIDN'T get fixed in 11.1S1, so you're taking your life 
  into your own hands if you try to run that code in production.
 
 Hi Richard,
 
 Could you be a bit more specific about this issue that remains
 outstanding in 11.1S1? Is there a PSN for it?
 
 I have a pair of EX4500s in my lab for setup currently, and any older
 release isn't an option due to the lack of IPv6 and VC support.

No comment on how to reproduce it, at least until they fix it and ok the 
release of details. No PSN yet, but basically it's just another magic 
packet of death which crashes the FPCs, similar to the last NetBIOS 
issue. Almost all of our testing is on EX8200, but often times these 
things behave similarly across the smaller EX's too. I'm just warning 
people not to jump into 11.1S1 expecting everything to work great, 
because it most certainly does not. :)

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Re: [j-nsp] ex4200 egress filter

2011-04-28 Thread Tore Anderson
* Richard A Steenbergen

 We hit this issue while testing 11.1R1, and oh what a mighty big screwup 
 it was on Juniper's part too (that it even tries to parse the packets 
 that are killing it in the first place, when NOT CONFIGURED TO DO SO, 
 simply boggles the mind). Unfortunately it's also not the only packet 
 of death which crashes the FPCs issue in 11.1 on EX, we also discovered 
 another one which DIDN'T get fixed in 11.1S1, so you're taking your life 
 into your own hands if you try to run that code in production.

Hi Richard,

Could you be a bit more specific about this issue that remains
outstanding in 11.1S1? Is there a PSN for it?

I have a pair of EX4500s in my lab for setup currently, and any older
release isn't an option due to the lack of IPv6 and VC support.

Best regards,
-- 
Tore Anderson
Redpill Linpro AS - http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
Tel: +47 21 54 41 27
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Re: [j-nsp] juniper-nsp Digest, Vol 101, Issue 46

2011-04-28 Thread Kari Asheim
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:21:31PM +0200, martin papik wrote:
 Hi,
 can I block (drop) router advertisemet (RA) only on specific ports in
 EX2400 (EX2200) configuration.

ka@ex4200# show firewall family ethernet-switching filter CUSTOMER-INGRESS
term RA-DENY {
from {
icmp-type router-advertisement;
}
then discard;
}
term ACCEPT-DEFAULT {
then accept;
}


ka@ex4200# show interfaces ge-0/0/3 
 
unit 0 {
family ethernet-switching {
filter {
input CUSTOMER-INGRESS;
}
}
}

Available match conditions:

http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos/topics/reference/requirements/firewall-filter-ex-series-match-conditions.html#ipv6_match_tab


Supported plattforms (3200/4200/8200 now):

http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos/topics/concept/ex-series-software-features-overview.html#routing-policy-packet-filtering-features-by-platform-table


Kari
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[j-nsp] RES: Trying to get OSPF to work across IPsec for Redundancy

2011-04-28 Thread Leonardo Gama Souza
 Hello All:

 I'm trying to get OSPF up over IPsec.  We have two IPsec tunnels, a
 primary and a secondary that our spoke router can use.  We want to
have
 the spoke router run OSPF across both and then in case of a failure of
 the primary hub router (where the primary IPsec tunnel terminates)
OSPF
 will direct traffic over the backup tunnel to the backup hub.

 So far I have seen OSPF on the spoke router come up just a couple of
 times but only to one or the other peer.  It never has come up to both
 peers.  Here are my configurations for OSPF and the services
interfaces
 below.  Also BGP is up on all routers and all routers are reachable
via
 BGP.

 If anyeone can guide me in the right direction to get OSPF working
over
 IPsec that would be most apprectiated!

As far as I know IPSec solely is not able to carry Multicast traffic.
Are you using GRE over IPSec? If not, you may want to try unicast
hellos. 

attachment: Leonardo Gama Souza (leonardo.souza@nec.com.br).vcf___
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Re: [j-nsp] Blocking router advertisemet (RA) (was: Re: juniper-nsp Digest, Vol 101, Issue 46)

2011-04-28 Thread David B Funk

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:21:31 +0200
From: martin papik pa...@utia.cas.cz
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] juniper-nsp Digest, Vol 101, Issue 46
Message-ID: 4db87acb.7010...@utia.cas.cz
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,
can I block (drop) router advertisemet (RA) only on specific ports in
EX2400 (EX2200) configuration.
The problem is in security, because when any station (PC, notebook)
connected to LAN, starts own (but not official!!!) RA, I thing that this  
unoffical RA
will pass throught switch. RA is using icmpv6 port 134. For example some PCs 
with
Windows OS should generate own unoffical RA.Maybe I can use firewall filter, 
but this
will generate CPU higher load :-(. Is possible to use another specific conf. 
command?
Did anyone solve this type of problem in past?
Thanks
Martin Papik


Martin,
If you've got workstations sending RAs then you've probably got bigger 
problems than just rogue RAs. They're probably doing automatic v6-to-v4 
tunneling (eiter 6-to-4 or teredo), so you've got uncontrolled v6

traffic on your net. Given the exhaustion of v4 addrs, v6 is only going
to increase in use.

You need to either do a proper v6 deployment or take strong steps to
quash it, the half-baked environment only leads to misery.
In general, if workstations hear official RAs then they tend to
become just clients and don't try to do 6-to-4 tunnels (or configure
each workstation to completely disable its v6 stack).

Find a good source of IPv6 information and learn about the things that you 
need to know, both as a network engineer  system-administrator.


Good place to start:
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-119/sp800-119.pdf


--
Dave Funk  University of Iowa
dbfunk (at) engineering.uiowa.eduCollege of Engineering
319/335-5751   FAX: 319/384-0549   1256 Seamans Center
Sys_admin/Postmaster/cell_adminIowa City, IA 52242-1527
#include std_disclaimer.h
Better is not better, 'standard' is better. B{
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[j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

2011-04-28 Thread Bill Blackford
Any notes from the field on 10.4R4.3 deployment?
Pros? Cons?
fixes? Features?

I saw some noise on the list recently. Anyone care to share a summary?

Thanks in advance.

-b


-- 
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Network Engineer

Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.
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Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

2011-04-28 Thread Paul Goyette
10.4R4.3 is not released software and should not be used by
anyone.  We have not yet completed the release process for 
Junos 10.4R4 ...


 -Original Message-
 From: juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:juniper-nsp-
 boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bill Blackford
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:52 PM
 To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
 Subject: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3
 
 Any notes from the field on 10.4R4.3 deployment?
 Pros? Cons?
 fixes? Features?
 
 I saw some noise on the list recently. Anyone care to share a summary?
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 -b
 
 
 --
 Bill Blackford
 Network Engineer
 
 Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.
 ___
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Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

2011-04-28 Thread Bill Blackford
doh!

My apologizes. This should read 10.4R3.4
--- JUNOS 10.4R3.4 built 2011-03-19 22:06:32 UTC

-b


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul Goyette pgoye...@juniper.net wrote:
 10.4R4.3 is not released software and should not be used by
 anyone.  We have not yet completed the release process for
 Junos 10.4R4 ...


 -Original Message-
 From: juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:juniper-nsp-
 boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bill Blackford
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:52 PM
 To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
 Subject: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

 Any notes from the field on 10.4R4.3 deployment?
 Pros? Cons?
 fixes? Features?

 I saw some noise on the list recently. Anyone care to share a summary?

 Thanks in advance.

 -b


 --
 Bill Blackford
 Network Engineer

 Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.
 ___
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-- 
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Network Engineer

Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.

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Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

2011-04-28 Thread Paul Goyette
Phew!

Thanks for the clarification!


 -Original Message-
 From: Bill Blackford [mailto:bblackf...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:08 PM
 To: Paul Goyette
 Cc: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
 Subject: Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3
 
 doh!
 
 My apologizes. This should read 10.4R3.4
 --- JUNOS 10.4R3.4 built 2011-03-19 22:06:32 UTC
 
 -b
 
 
 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul Goyette pgoye...@juniper.net
 wrote:
  10.4R4.3 is not released software and should not be used by
  anyone.  We have not yet completed the release process for
  Junos 10.4R4 ...
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:juniper-nsp-
  boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bill Blackford
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:52 PM
  To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
  Subject: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3
 
  Any notes from the field on 10.4R4.3 deployment?
  Pros? Cons?
  fixes? Features?
 
  I saw some noise on the list recently. Anyone care to share a
 summary?
 
  Thanks in advance.
 
  -b
 
 
  --
  Bill Blackford
  Network Engineer
 
  Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.
  ___
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 --
 Bill Blackford
 Network Engineer
 
 Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.

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Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

2011-04-28 Thread Michael Hare
We upgraded a few (five?) EX4200's to 10.4R3.4 for the flash 
partitioning feature a few weeks ago.  We haven't ran across anything 
terrible but we are mostly simple layer2.  We did see a substantial drop 
in CPU, which was unexpected, but welcomed.


-Michael

On 4/28/2011 7:11 PM, Paul Goyette wrote:

Phew!

Thanks for the clarification!



-Original Message-
From: Bill Blackford [mailto:bblackf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:08 PM
To: Paul Goyette
Cc: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

doh!

My apologizes. This should read 10.4R3.4
--- JUNOS 10.4R3.4 built 2011-03-19 22:06:32 UTC

-b


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul Goyettepgoye...@juniper.net
wrote:

10.4R4.3 is not released software and should not be used by
anyone.  We have not yet completed the release process for
Junos 10.4R4 ...



-Original Message-
From: juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:juniper-nsp-
boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bill Blackford
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:52 PM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: [j-nsp] EX 10.4R4.3

Any notes from the field on 10.4R4.3 deployment?
Pros? Cons?
fixes? Features?

I saw some noise on the list recently. Anyone care to share a

summary?


Thanks in advance.

-b


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Network Engineer

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--
Bill Blackford
Network Engineer

Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.


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Re: [j-nsp] RES: Trying to get OSPF to work across IPsec for Redundancy

2011-04-28 Thread Keegan Holley
I don't think OSPF carries multicast.  I know cisco routers have a neighbor
statement that will force it to unicast hello's I've never tried it on a
juniper. I think if you do GRE over IPSEC (not to be confused with IPSEC
over GRE) the multicast will work as well.  It depends on your endpoints
though, I don't think firewalls will do GRE.


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Leonardo Gama Souza 
leonardo.so...@nec.com.br wrote:

  Hello All:
 
  I'm trying to get OSPF up over IPsec.  We have two IPsec tunnels, a
  primary and a secondary that our spoke router can use.  We want to
 have
  the spoke router run OSPF across both and then in case of a failure of
  the primary hub router (where the primary IPsec tunnel terminates)
 OSPF
  will direct traffic over the backup tunnel to the backup hub.
 
  So far I have seen OSPF on the spoke router come up just a couple of
  times but only to one or the other peer.  It never has come up to both
  peers.  Here are my configurations for OSPF and the services
 interfaces
  below.  Also BGP is up on all routers and all routers are reachable
 via
  BGP.
 
  If anyeone can guide me in the right direction to get OSPF working
 over
  IPsec that would be most apprectiated!

 As far as I know IPSec solely is not able to carry Multicast traffic.
 Are you using GRE over IPSec? If not, you may want to try unicast
 hellos.


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Re: [j-nsp] RES: Trying to get OSPF to work across IPsec for Redundancy

2011-04-28 Thread Keegan Holley
sorry I meant IPSEC doesn't carry multicast.  OSPF technically doesn't
carry anything.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Keegan Holley
keegan.hol...@sungard.comwrote:

 I don't think OSPF carries multicast.  I know cisco routers have a neighbor
 statement that will force it to unicast hello's I've never tried it on a
 juniper. I think if you do GRE over IPSEC (not to be confused with IPSEC
 over GRE) the multicast will work as well.  It depends on your endpoints
 though, I don't think firewalls will do GRE.


 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Leonardo Gama Souza 
 leonardo.so...@nec.com.br wrote:

  Hello All:
 
  I'm trying to get OSPF up over IPsec.  We have two IPsec tunnels, a
  primary and a secondary that our spoke router can use.  We want to
 have
  the spoke router run OSPF across both and then in case of a failure of
  the primary hub router (where the primary IPsec tunnel terminates)
 OSPF
  will direct traffic over the backup tunnel to the backup hub.
 
  So far I have seen OSPF on the spoke router come up just a couple of
  times but only to one or the other peer.  It never has come up to both
  peers.  Here are my configurations for OSPF and the services
 interfaces
  below.  Also BGP is up on all routers and all routers are reachable
 via
  BGP.
 
  If anyeone can guide me in the right direction to get OSPF working
 over
  IPsec that would be most apprectiated!

 As far as I know IPSec solely is not able to carry Multicast traffic.
 Are you using GRE over IPSec? If not, you may want to try unicast
 hellos.


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 juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
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Re: [j-nsp] RES: Trying to get OSPF to work across IPsec for Redundancy

2011-04-28 Thread OBrien, Will
Actually...
OSPF will work across an ipsec tunnel. Unfortunately, last time I checked, it 
wouldn't work across a tunnel that's terminated within a routing instance on a 
srx. The issue was confirmed by JTAC.
We haven't tried it on 10.4 yet, but it's a known issue with older code.

OSPF just won't built a relationship across the tunnel.
On the other hand, it works great across ipsec tunnels between netscreens.

If I remember, I'll try to dig up the kb article/bug report that covers it.




On Apr 28, 2011, at 10:58 PM, Keegan Holley wrote:

 sorry I meant IPSEC doesn't carry multicast.  OSPF technically doesn't
 carry anything.
 
 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Keegan Holley
 keegan.hol...@sungard.comwrote:
 
 I don't think OSPF carries multicast.  I know cisco routers have a neighbor
 statement that will force it to unicast hello's I've never tried it on a
 juniper. I think if you do GRE over IPSEC (not to be confused with IPSEC
 over GRE) the multicast will work as well.  It depends on your endpoints
 though, I don't think firewalls will do GRE.
 
 
 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Leonardo Gama Souza 
 leonardo.so...@nec.com.br wrote:
 
 Hello All:
 
 I'm trying to get OSPF up over IPsec.  We have two IPsec tunnels, a
 primary and a secondary that our spoke router can use.  We want to
 have
 the spoke router run OSPF across both and then in case of a failure of
 the primary hub router (where the primary IPsec tunnel terminates)
 OSPF
 will direct traffic over the backup tunnel to the backup hub.
 
 So far I have seen OSPF on the spoke router come up just a couple of
 times but only to one or the other peer.  It never has come up to both
 peers.  Here are my configurations for OSPF and the services
 interfaces
 below.  Also BGP is up on all routers and all routers are reachable
 via
 BGP.
 
 If anyeone can guide me in the right direction to get OSPF working
 over
 IPsec that would be most apprectiated!
 
 As far as I know IPSec solely is not able to carry Multicast traffic.
 Are you using GRE over IPSec? If not, you may want to try unicast
 hellos.
 
 
 ___
 juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
 https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
 
 
 
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 juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
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