Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 21/Aug/20 00:54, Giuliano C. Medalha wrote:

> ACX710 was officially launched this week.
>
> We are very excited about this new product. Working hard to have the right 
> features for our market, especially H-QOS and FAT-PW quickly.
>
> In addition to this box has great cost benefit.
>
> They are in the right way.  Finally.

Not quite.

The lack of AC support on this box is a real travesty. Then again, I
understand why, so...

I also wouldn't count my chickens yet as it's a Jericho 2 box. So plenty
of testing before you sign the contract.

Mark.

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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 21/Aug/20 00:54, Giuliano C. Medalha wrote:

> ACX710 was officially launched this week.
>
> We are very excited about this new product. Working hard to have the right 
> features for our market, especially H-QOS and FAT-PW quickly.
>
> In addition to this box has great cost benefit.
>
> They are in the right way.  Finally.

Not quite.

The lack of AC support on this box is a real travesty. Then again, I
understand why, so...

I also wouldn't count my chickens yet as it's a Jericho 2 box. So plenty
of testing before you sign on contract.

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Giuliano C. Medalha]

Good evening everyone

We have had some good experiences with the QFX5120-32C as a P router with MPLS 
( 32 x 100G ) . It is running well on several clients in the last few days.

We had some problems with the initial code, mainly in network convergence and 
null traffic in already formed tunnels, but this has already been solved in 
19.4R2-S1.

The 19.4R3 will be released on 08/27/2020  ( forecast ) and should encompass 
all these corrections and become a very stable release for this specific 
function.

JUNIPER engineering (MX, PTX and QFX) has helped us a lot with the development 
of new features and bug fixes.

ACX710 was officially launched this week.

We are very excited about this new product. Working hard to have the right 
features for our market, especially H-QOS and FAT-PW quickly.

In addition to this box has great cost benefit.

They are in the right way.  Finally.

Att

Giuliano


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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Nelson, Brian]

-Original Message-
From: juniper-nsp  On Behalf Of Mark Tinka
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:38 AM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version
it will be a reminder of what happened when Juniper went from JUNOS 8, and a 
bit of 9, to Junos 10 and where we are today :-).

Mark.
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I see the reminder everyday of those past growing pains in the pains of 
16,17,18.
Same Stuff, Different Day 

Brian Nelson
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Re: [j-nsp] Netflow/IPFix to multiple flow servers

[Mark Tinka]

On 20/Aug/20 18:32, Matthew Crocker wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a couple MX480s and need to send Netflow data to multiple flow 
> collectors.  Is there a JunOS version that supposed multiple flow-servers 
> instead of just one.   I’d like to avoid running a flow replicator if I can.

We had this issue in Junos 16.

Junos 17 doesn't have this limitation.

We are on 17.4R2-S1.2, FWIW.

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 20/Aug/20 15:33, Alexandre Guimaraes wrote:

> The best answer ever!
>
> Go to Vegas, in a Cassino, play some roulette.  Wait for a number between 10 
> and 20, if black, normal Junos, if red, SR Junos...  if you lose all money 
> before get a code similar a release, follow Tom Beecher schemas.
>
> IT'S A LOTTERY to pick a junos release. 

Like on the PTX1000's we are getting, we'll go straight to Junos 20
because... why not?

If we hit issues along the way, we'll review.

If we don't, happy days.

It does help that these are core boxes, so...

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 19/Aug/20 18:03, John Kristoff wrote:

> I'm not sure it is worth the time invested, but I'm probably a rare
> breed that reads through release notes and tries to determine what I'm
> in for or what I may have to change for an install or upgrade.  It is
> very time consuming, but has been helpful a few times for things I
> would have otherwise been unprepared for.  Here is an old of example of
> the sort of thing I've done:

I do it less these days since I have minions, but yes, this is a tried &
tested part of network operations.

Since we are deploying PTX1000's soon, that's the first time I've read
(Junos 20) release notes to that degree since Junos 14 back in 2014 :-).

Mark.

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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 19/Aug/20 17:12, Roger Wiklund wrote:

> I'm not sure how long Arista can keep the single binary approach as they
> expand their portfolio
> and feature set. For example it makes very little sense to have full BNG
> code on EX access switches, imge would be huge.

We've seen this play before. It's a matter of time.


> As for JTAC recommended release, it's a very generic recommendation not
> taking specific use cases into consideration (Except for EVPN-VXLAN CRB/ERB)
> Typically Juniper considers R3 releases to be mainstream adoptable (reality
> is more like R3-S) but you will sleep better if you do proper
> testing and to avoid regression bugs etc.
>
> You can always ask your friendly SE for some guidance.

I've generally only chosen specific code because it has a new feature I
want, and then I stick with it until I can't any longer, typically due
to it not having extended support.

The other reason to choose code is because, well, you have no choice,
e.g., they release an MPC20E line card that mandates the use of Junos
43. Take it or leave it.

If I'm happy with the features I have, I won't look at other code unless
it introduces a new feature I need, or it receives no more love from
Juniper.

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 19/Aug/20 17:00, Saku Ytti wrote:

> For the longest time Juniper pretended they had a single Junos,
> because they didn't have a large enough portfolio to justify anything
> else. Of course at very early of that marketing pitch the single image
> already included multiple images for different targets.
> Anyone could do this, anyone could ship fat tgz which contains
> everything, at some point it becomes less than sensible.
>
> ANET is already pretending there is a single image, due to transition
> to 64b and over time entropy increases for them too.

Completely agreed.

The vendors can't sustain a single market portfolio any longer. Either
they fork, or they acquire some company and still fork.

Times are hard.

Mark.
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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Mark Tinka]

On 19/Aug/20 16:42, Colton Conor wrote:

> Just wondering if JUNOS will ever go to a unified code model like Arista
> does? The amount of PR's and bug issues in JUNOS seems overwhelming. Is
> this standard across vendors? I am impressed that Juniper takes the times
> to keep track of all these issues, but I am unimpressed that there are this
> many bugs.

It's only going to get worse.

Personally, I don't mind a little bit of forking. I don't want bugs due
to BNG features because it's all one Junos.

Arista's portfolio is still simplistic because the main target market is
data centre switching. Wait when their code gets up to scratch re:
IP/MPLS, and it will be a reminder of what happened when Juniper went
from JUNOS 8, and a bit of 9, to Junos 10 and where we are today :-).

Mark.
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[j-nsp] Netflow/IPFix to multiple flow servers

[Matthew Crocker]

Hello,

I have a couple MX480s and need to send Netflow data to multiple flow 
collectors.  Is there a JunOS version that supposed multiple flow-servers 
instead of just one.   I’d like to avoid running a flow replicator if I can.

Thanks

-Matt

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Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Christian Scholz via juniper-nsp]

--- Begin Message ---
If you face issues, you have JTAC, ATAC, and Engineering - and also a local SE.
I would never wait and "hope" that a fix will be out there because it has been 
reported, "by someone else."
Observe, Pinpoint, Report and if needed Escalate - works very good with Juniper 
and they help you; unlike other vendors who "build bridges" and tell you to 
deploy your software while Saturn is in line with Mars and while offering a 
goat as a token of appreciation at the same time 
If there is a nasty issue that is not fixed in any release, Engineering 
provides "Special Customer Releases" to have a fix for your particular 
environment and issue to help you.
Therefore if you report the Bug, you might not have a fix tomorrow, but in the 
next 2-3 months.
And if it takes longer, there's an "escalate this case" button that works very 
well - I never had to wait longer than six weeks for a particular fix after it 
had been confirmed. Your local SE can also assist you if you have trouble.


Back to the topic:
If you start fresh, follow the "JTAC versions to consider" (as stated earlier, 
it's no longer called recommended for various reasons) and ask your local SE - 
that's the "official" way. 
In 9/10 Cases, this is an excellent version to start with if you have no idea 
where to start at all.
If you need a specific feature that's not yet in the "version to consider," or 
there's a bug in this version affecting you, your local SE can tell you what to 
do and what version to try.
This way, you get a working version or the correct pointers on what to do to 
get the right version.

Tom's approach is also an excellent idea - the important part is that you test 
everything for your environment yourself before deploying it to prod. Most of 
the time, "shit hits the fan" because folks don't check appropriately for 
themselves or have no testing environment at all because "it's expensive."
In my personal opinion, it's not the vendor's responsibility to test every 
customer topology in existence with every tiny feature.
It's your job at the end of the day to make sure that you deploy code that 
works. 
The vendor can assist you as best as possible, but it's simply not possible for 
them to test EVERY scenario out there.
Again: Observe, Pinpoint, Report.

Yes - there are often multiple bugs involved, and yes it can be a "Minesweeper 
Game" to find the one that has "everything" fixed (however, such thing does not 
exist per definition because humans are not perfect) - but it's not as 
complicated as with other vendors with 27.000 Releases and Sub-Releases out 
there that have to be "qualified" in order to get support 

Just my 2ct

-- Christian






-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: juniper-nsp  Im Auftrag von Alexandre 
Guimaraes
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. August 2020 15:34
An: Tom Beecher ; Colton Conor 
Cc: Juniper List 
Betreff: Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

The best answer ever!

Go to Vegas, in a Cassino, play some roulette.  Wait for a number between 10 
and 20, if black, normal Junos, if red, SR Junos...  if you lose all money 
before get a code similar a release, follow Tom Beecher schemas.

IT'S A LOTTERY to pick a junos release. 

One of my case
I have deployed some QFX5120 32C and 48Y units a year ago, exactly Aug/2019, 
until today, those units are offline and waiting a code that’s fix 
RSVP/ISIS/MPLS signalization until there, wasted money, etc



Em 19/08/2020 13:32, "juniper-nsp em nome de Tom Beecher" 
 escreveu:

Start with the highest code version supported on the hardware that has all
the features you need.
Subtract 2 from the major revision number.
Pick a .3 version of that major revision.
Work towards current from there depending on test results, security needs,
etc.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:47 AM Colton Conor 

wrote:

> How do you plan which JUNOS version to deploy on your network? Do you 
stick
> to the KB21476 - JTAC Recommended Junos Software Versions or go a 
different
> route? Some of the JTAC recommended code seems to be very dated, but that
> is probably by design for stability.
>
> 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kb.juniper.net_InfoCenter_index-3Fpage-3Dcontent-26id-3DKB21476-26actp-3DMETADATA=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=d3qAF5t8mugacLDeGpoAguKDWyMVANad_HfrWBCDH1s=a6BNdZOtIAqYpPvwVFnIF4E-D-PQw3QGn-NmT5hFQag=CQxemDO4grDS8J_BXAGPC3akSwvKhy2DBPt6JlKN3nI=
>
> Just wondering if JUNOS will ever go to a unified code model like Arista
> does? The amount of PR's and bug issues in JUNOS seems overwhelming. Is
> this standard across vendors? I am impressed that Juniper takes the times

Re: [j-nsp] How to pick JUNOS Version

[Alexandre Guimaraes]

The best answer ever!

Go to Vegas, in a Cassino, play some roulette.  Wait for a number between 10 
and 20, if black, normal Junos, if red, SR Junos...  if you lose all money 
before get a code similar a release, follow Tom Beecher schemas.

IT'S A LOTTERY to pick a junos release. 

One of my case
I have deployed some QFX5120 32C and 48Y units a year ago, exactly Aug/2019, 
until today, those units are offline and waiting a code that’s fix 
RSVP/ISIS/MPLS signalization until there, wasted money, etc



Em 19/08/2020 13:32, "juniper-nsp em nome de Tom Beecher" 
 escreveu:

Start with the highest code version supported on the hardware that has all
the features you need.
Subtract 2 from the major revision number.
Pick a .3 version of that major revision.
Work towards current from there depending on test results, security needs,
etc.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:47 AM Colton Conor 

wrote:

> How do you plan which JUNOS version to deploy on your network? Do you 
stick
> to the KB21476 - JTAC Recommended Junos Software Versions or go a 
different
> route? Some of the JTAC recommended code seems to be very dated, but that
> is probably by design for stability.
>
> 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kb.juniper.net_InfoCenter_index-3Fpage-3Dcontent-26id-3DKB21476-26actp-3DMETADATA=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=d3qAF5t8mugacLDeGpoAguKDWyMVANad_HfrWBCDH1s=a6BNdZOtIAqYpPvwVFnIF4E-D-PQw3QGn-NmT5hFQag=CQxemDO4grDS8J_BXAGPC3akSwvKhy2DBPt6JlKN3nI=
>
> Just wondering if JUNOS will ever go to a unified code model like Arista
> does? The amount of PR's and bug issues in JUNOS seems overwhelming. Is
> this standard across vendors? I am impressed that Juniper takes the times
> to keep track of all these issues, but I am unimpressed that there are 
this
> many bugs.
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