Re: Connecting a TV via HDMI
Many laptops still have a hardware key - typically a "Fn" + a number key that toggles the laptop hardware between laptop screen, laptop screen mirror to hdmi, and laptop screen and hdmi as distinct monitors. Try playing with that... before going into the kde settings - hopefully it shows up as two devices then... On 9/10/20 6:10 PM, Dave Close wrote: I have a Motile M141 laptop running Fedora 32 with KDE and completely up-to-date on all software according to DNF. I'm really very happy with the laptop. It's fast, light-weight, and capable. The built-in screen runs at 1920 x 1080. When I attach a TV using an HDMI cable, the laptop screen goes dark and the TV screen lights up. I get the same effect if the TV is attached before the laptop boots. The TV runs at a lower resolution but the picture adjusts properly. But there doesn't seem to be any way to get both screens to light up concurrently, either as a mirror or extension. Running KDE systemsettings while the TV is connected and viewing the output on the TV, systemsettings reports two displays but only shows one movable outline. The resolutions are reported differently for the two with the laptop screen resolution showing as 1920 x 1080. But nothing I've tried seems to make the laptop screen light up. Except disconnecting the HDMI cable which, of course, makes the TV go dark. Getting both screens working is my primary interest here and I'd appreciate any suggestions. But if and when that is resolved, I'll face the issue of overscan on the TV. To save time later, I'll ask now: Is there a way to shrink the TV display so that the edges are all visible?
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
Kevin Krammer Weird, I seem to have backed up my email and browser form completion data without actually knowing where these programs store them. But maybe Okular's data is so different that I would escape the same backup procedure that work for other programs. Time will tell. Go ahead. I challenge you. Fill out a random PDF form using Okular. Make a backup of said filled out form. Now, lets see you open that backup copy with the data fields in tact, on another computer. Maybe better yet. Task your mother or father with this if they are available. Lets see how they do. As far as other programs documentation... hmm, let see. This list took about 20 seconds to find: https://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=142893 http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/Form-autocomplete http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Fill-in-website-forms-and-passwords-automatically-in-Internet-Explorer-9 Show me where Okular has documented this. (good luck) If you say so. My experience suggests that people do quite well understand that anything not explicitly saved does not alter an opened document. I believe that some people even rely on that, e.g. temporarily changing something (e.g. for printing) and then closing the program to ensure a kind of complete undo. Umm... which is your argument? That it is saved, or that it isn't? Because if the user didn't click save, Okular shouldn't store the data anywhere. But it does. And if the user were to use the save as button, they would expect that to save their data, when in fact, it doesn't. And your notion of having a complete undo doesn't work with Okular either. Because if you open a form, there is no temporarily changing anything. As soon as you change a field, it saves those changes to disk. There is no undo via closing the form without clicking save the way any normal user would expect it to work. That is my biggest concern with how the feature works now. User opens up a PDF file from their flash drive on a computer. Fills in some fields. Prints it. Closes the PDF without ever clicking save. The user would expect that the data that they typed in should not be saved anywhere. Yet, Okular just stored it away on that computer. And X days later, when someone else shows up with a PDF file that has the same name, Okular will just dump the previous persons data directly into their form. That was why I suggested just shutting it off. Or redirecting it to /dev/null. That second suggestion makes little sense now, does it? Actually, it still makes perfect sense. If you don't like that suggestion, there are others that are just as easy: Add a simple question (remember your answers for these fields yes/no?), Move the file storing location to be the folder that contains the form being opened... (and oh, by the way, if that location happens to be the system temp folder, disable the feature), They should default to the most secure, least surprising behavior unless the user requests otherwise. The principal of least surprises, as it were. Because I was sure as hell surprised when I found my tax return information magically re-filling a blank form I had just downloaded, when I _knew_ that my filled out tax form was stored in an encrypted volume that wasn't even mounted at the time. The feature is a disservice to the users of Okular as the maintainers have no notion of handling users data safely and properly. And given the type of data that is frequently entered into PDF forms, that it just unacceptable. But the maintainers of Okular refuse to even talk about it. Hence the suggestion of trying a less confrontational approach. Obviously approach used in the past didn't work out so well. About 5 other people have reported the issue in less confrontational ways in the past 2 years. They were all ignored. And I'd hardly call my approach confrontational. More, shear amazement that they don't seem to be able to grasp that their design of this feature was so bad. After I got over my initial shock, I've posted several followups with reasonable, low work suggestions which could alleviate the issue. But they are too busy feigning insult to want to do anything about it. I appreciate that you are willing to talk about the issue. I think you even agree that its not a good way to handle users data. I was hoping that someone from KDE would recognize a security issue when they saw one, and ask the okular maintainers to spend the 15 minutes it would take them to put in something, anything, to address the issue. Its not a question of developer resources. Many of the potential fixes are dead-simple trivial. An end user like me just shouldn't have to work this hard to report a security / data privacy issue. The handling by the Okular developers has been like a 2 year old with a temper tantrum from the beginning. This bug, for example: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=267350 has had no involvement by me. 3 different people
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
If storing data to prefill form fields would be considered malware, people would have a hard time browsing the Internet since malware removal tools would have deinstalled all incarnations of browsers already. One minor point. A PDF viewer is not web browser. Its much more like a document editor. That is how users expect it to behave - like other document editors. Don't you suppose folks would find it a little unsettling if LibreOffice just silently saved anything you typed into it, without asking, in a hidden location, every time you even opened a document with it? Because that is exactly what Okular does. I only brought the webbrowsers into the conversation to point out that other software that stores user data for auto-form filling always gives the user control over said data. My take is that asking for a more secure implementation of a feature, especially since there are role models for how that works, has magnitudes more chances of being considered worth while than asking for removable of a feature that is considered useful by others inspite of not ideal implementation. And another point. Nobody has stepped forward to defend the current feature. Because the feature, in its current form is almost completely useless. The only possible thing I can think of that it does is not lose your work if you close Okular, go out to lunch, then come back and continue working. But storing your work - aka - filled form data for any significant amount of time? No. Its useless. You don't even know where it stored it. You can't back it up. You can't tie it to the actual document you were working on. You can't send it to anyone else. The feature does more harm than good. It would be better if it didn't even give the illusion of allowing you to save data typed into form fields - because it doesn't. It doesn't even _tell_ you that it didn't actually put the data into the form. You won't find out until you send the document to a coworker, and they tell you it is blank. The only thing this feature will lead to is a horrible user experience. That was why I suggested just shutting it off. Or redirecting it to /dev/null. But the maintainers of Okular refuse to even talk about it. So, here we are, 2 years later, with it still behaving in the same brain-dead way. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Trees wont expand / collapse in some apps?
Has anyone else noticed that tree views no longer expand or collapse properly with mouse clicks in some applications? I first noticed this in Eclipse - see this bug for a better write up - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=368297 - but now I have also noticed that it impacts other applications like Handbrake. Strangely, tree views still work properly in Dolphin. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
Hmm. Most software with autocompletion support does that. E.g. browsers, email programs. They also ask your permission first. And they have an off switch. And, they definitely don't autocomplete fields which are know to contain private info - aka - passwords. Unless you go through another dialog telling it to remember the password. And they give you a menu option to clear it. And, most browsers now have a don't remember anything mode. Okular has none of those. However I don't see any facts supporting the claim of virus like behavior. Hiding users data without permission and without the users knowledge certainly is virus like behavior. If they didn't click save, you shouldn't save. Its pretty simple. I would recommend lobbying for secure storage of form completion data like other form completing programs do. I doubt it would help. The feature is so mis-conceived from the get-go that it serves almost no purpose. There is almost no point in storing form data for Form A in randomly named File B. If you even rename file A, Okular gets confused and can no longer associate the data from File B with Form A. Don't even think about trying to sent Form A to another person... it doesn't work. The only way it could be properly implemented is to store the data in the actual PDF file, where it belongs. But that is hard. So it seems unlikely that it will ever be implemented in the near future. The only sane thing to do is to turn the feature off. At least by default. At least give the user some control over it. Which I suggested 2 years ago. And here we _still_ are. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
Dude.. if you spent half as much time submitting a patch, as you did complaining about the issue, it would be fixed yesterday.. Quit complaining, you aren't paying for this software. Fix it yourself, or stop using it. No one cares just because you want to whine like a spoiled little brat. Same goes to the developers. They could have fixed it in about 2 minutes, 2 years ago. If you actually read the e-mails in this thread, you would see that I have stopped using it. I'm continuing to make noise about it because Okular is exposing personal data of every other unsuspecting user that ever touches it. The developers of Okular don't seem to care. Perhaps someone higher up at KDE who understands a security issue when they see one, will. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Kevin Krammer kevin.kram...@gmx.at wrote: When introducing a new party to a converstation, in this case the KDE user mailinglist, it is usually very helpful to provide context to said new party. When the discussion has happened on one mailinglist so far, a good way to do that is to provide a link to the discussion start in the original mailinglist's archive. Apologies, I thought I included the kde list in the initial posts, which had the summary info. It must not have gone through. Here is the bug report in question: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=267350 I also reported this to the developer list about 2 years ago: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/okular-devel/2010-February/006386.html In short,if you: Download a PDF. Fill in personal information. Print it. Close it. Never once even hitting save... Okular dumps every bit of data that you typed into a clear text file in a hidden directory. At a minimum, its really bad behavior. At worst, on say, a library terminal, it is opening up every unsuspecting user to having their information stolen. There is no warning, notice, or any such clue within ocular that it is doing this. Its a pretty basic user-interface paradigm that you shouldn't store data like that without the users permission. Especially in an application that handles PDF files, which are used for private and personal stuff all the time. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Albert Astals Cid aa...@kde.org wrote: Want me to unsubscribe you from the list? Reached this point in what the only thing you want to do is harass me i think it is the only sensible thing to do. Albert Now _there_ is a mature response. Users report a serious data security issue with product. Developers stick their fingers in their ears and go la la la. Users get annoyed with developers, toss a mild insult their way to get their attention, and developers just silence the users. Go back to sticking their fingers in their ears and going la la la. The _sensible_ thing for you to do is say Thanks for reporting this security issue! Sorry we missed it / didn't think about that. Instead, you continue to pretend the problem doesn't exist. Any any computer in the world that is configured as a public terminal - say - in a library - where people download tax forms, fill them in and print them continues to dump peoples personal data into a clear text file, without their knowledge or authorization. And anyone else can come along and take that information. Good job. Hope you are proud of yourselves. If you get satisfaction over ejecting me from the mailing list for pointing out the absurdity of your position, have fun. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
Sorry, I can't say that, i know it exists, I've known it for ages, i just don't feel it is the next think i have to do in my life (next thing is getting my Kindle and reading some stuff), if you think it is important, do it yourself or get some money and hire someone to fix it, i know a few KDE devels willing to take money to fix stuff. So, you have proven that you don't take a security issue seriously. Are there any other developers that do? The easy fix is to disable this feature until it can be redeveloped with some thought about proper handling of peoples data. But I can't seem to convince Albert that this is anything more than a run-of-the-mill bug, or even a feature request. Any computer in the world that is configured as a public terminal - say - in a library - where people download tax forms, fill them in and print them continues to dump peoples personal data into a clear text file, without their knowledge or authorization. And anyone else can come along and take that information. This is free software and as you can read in the GPLv2 license This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Yeah. I'm sure that will make the victims of identity theft feel a lot better. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 11:26 PM, jordon...@gmail.com wrote: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=267350 --- Comment #1 from Jackson Peacock pickled kde pepperedpeacock org 2011-04-04 03:11:36 --- I just noticed the same issue. I had stored some filled out forms on an encrypted drive. I ran into a bug where the fields I entered didn't weren't being displayed after being saved (not even an empty field). I figured the file had been corrupted so I copied the original blank form over the filled out one. When I opened it all the information I had entered into the form was there despite the file having been overwritten. After looking around I found it had been written to .kde/share/apps/okular/docdata - on an unencrypted drive. This was quite startling to me and not what I expected. I can understand if there are limitations to the PDF format that prevent you from storing the data in the PDF file itself, however you should at least inform the user of where the data is being stored before writing it. Preferably, it should be stored in the same directory as the PDF as well. --- Comment #2 from Jackson Peacock pickled kde pepperedpeacock org 2011-04-10 20:04:21 --- Another limitation of doing it this way is that it appears impossible to have multiple copies of the same form filled out differently, even if saved in different directories. For example, I filled out my tax forms, and then created a new directory with the copied blank forms to do my girlfriend's taxes. However, when I opened them they had my value stored in them. The workaround was to rename the forms and then edit them, but it would match user expectations better if each copy of the form had it's own set of values. Finally, I do think the priority on this bug should be higher as it relates to user privacy/security. --- Comment #3 from jordonwii gmail com 2012-01-05 05:26:15 --- Agree with #2. I know the devs are aware of this because there are other issues regarding the opening files and having the form remain being filled out (intentional feature). However, unsure if they are aware of the security implications of this. Developers have any comment? I, and several others have pointed this out to the developers of okular nearly 2 years ago. They are blind, naive, and dare I say foolish. They call this a feature and refuse to acknowledge that it creates security holes all over the place. They have shown no desire to even take the report seriously. http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/okular-devel/2010-February/006386.html Meanwhile, anyone that has ever used okular to fill out a form with sensitive information has had that information dumped, in clear text, onto whatever computer they happened to be using. Without their knowledge, or permission. KDE shouldn't even include this program until they fix this. It's a bad, bad, bad design. Shame on the okular developers for continuing to ignore the problem. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
