Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Monday, September 12, 2011 11:55 AM, "Anne Wilson" wrote: > On Sunday 11 Sep 2011 Duncan wrote: > > By and large, when something goes wrong with plasma, it drops out, then > restarts, so you could say this is a real effort to deal with the > problem. > Having no coding skills whatsoever, I can only guess at what could make a > plasmoid freeze everything. I imagine that plasmoids that get official > blessing > have had some code eye-over, but as you say, plasmoids are relatively > easy to > write and distribute, so anything goes, I guess. > > You can't safeguard against everything. What, to me, is more important, > is > that the author of that plasmoid should be told what is happening. Most > applications have a contact email address for the author - I don't know > whether it is true of any plasmoids, but it's certainly not true of all > of > them. It should be. This particular plasmoid was downloaded by clicking the 'Get New Widgets..' button on the 'Add Widgets' dialog, so I would think it was as officially-blessed as any other that's available. I think it's more important that a plasmoid which freezes shouldn't also freeze the whole desktop. You can't ensure the quality of plasmoids but surely someone can put a timeout of some kind in the plasma-desktop code so that calls to plasmoids don't wait forever for a response. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:33 PM, "Kevin Krammer" wrote: > On Sunday, 2011-09-11, Alex Schuster wrote: > > Kevin Krammer writes: > > > > Sure, I didn't want to imply that was a problem. > > I didn't think you were, just explaining that there should be no blocking > due > to downloading data unless something is wrong. > > > > Looks like the respective applet or whatever it is using for > > > downloading data is broken. > > > > And it's bad that this is able to make plasma hang. > > Unless proven otherwise I will assume that it is not. > As in I really don't see how non-blocking downloading could block an > application unless the application specifically blocks itself, which I > would > consider a bug. > > > In the days of > > cooperative multitasking, every application could make your system hang - > > these days are over. > > I've never had one application hang the system. Doesn't happen in this > context > either, the OP reports everything other than the hanging application > working > fine. > > > But for plasma, it's still like this. > > Highly unlikely. Since it did not happen for the OP, can you point to a > report > were hanging Plasma resulted in no other processes working either? I have no doubt that there's a fault in the Pyweather plasmoid somewhere that causes it to hang when the internet connection is flakey. I've tried another weather plasmoid (CWP) on the same machine and that doesn't seem to cause this problem. My comment was more that this shouldn't freeze the KDE desktop. Once the machine is in this state the only way out is ctrl+alt+f1, login at the console, telinit 3, telinit 5. Most users won't know how to do that though and will simply reboot because the computer has 'frozen'. It's not a true system hang, but it makes the desktop practically unusable and for most people will require a reboot so it may has well be a hang. My suggestion would be something similar to the hung application detection already built into KDE - when a plasmoid appears to have hung it should pop-up a dialog saying 'Plasmoid X is not responding and may cause the system to become unstable, would you like to force close it?'. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, September 11, 2011 2:22 PM, "Alex Schuster" wrote: > Tim Edwards writes: > > > Saw something interesting in the konsole window - just before the freeze > > ups each time there is output from the Pyweather plasma widget that > > shows it trying to retrieve weather data from the net. Currently our > > cable internet is out so I'm using 3G (USB tethering from the mobile > > phone), which in our house is slow and gets an intermittent signal. > > > > My theory is it looks like the Pyweather widget is hanging trying to get > > data sometimes, and this in turn hangs plasma-desktop. Which, if true, > > is IMHO a huge design fault in plasma-desktop. Anyway I'll see if this > > theory holds out, Pyweather's been removed and so far no freezes. > > Yes, that's the problem with plasma-desktoüp, it's single threaded, and > if one plasmoid hangs, whole plasma hangs. I often had such trouble when > using plasmoids I downloaded fron the net. > > I also believe it's a huge design fault, but there _are_ indeed reasons > for doing this, having to do with speed mainly I think. I don't find the > link right now where this was explained, but if you are interested, I > could search and find it. I guess there's not much point, the problem solved/design flaw worked around by removing plasmoids that are possibly unstable. It does kind of limit the usefulness of the whole plasma system though - anything which might possibly hang should not be used. This particular machine is a netbook so I expect to use it in various places where internet connectivity is bad or non-existent. It sucks for the users who don't know how to debug technical problems and search on mailing lists though - no wonder there's so many posts on forums about 'KDE freezing' or 'KDE hanging'. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:57 PM, "Tim Edwards" wrote: > > > On Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:33 PM, "Alex Schuster" > wrote: > > Tim Edwards writes: > > > > > I'm running Opensuse 11.4 with KDE 4.6 on a Netbook. When I plug the > > > netbook in to an external monitor/TV after a few minutes the KDE panel > > > (including all menus, icons, clock etc.) is completely frozen. Even > > > after over an hour it remains frozen. > > > > > > All other software functions fine - firefox, Libreoffice, Thunderbird > > > etc. and I can use alt+tab to switch between them. I can't launch new > > > programs since the KMenu is frozen > > > > I think KRunner (Alt-F2) should still work. > > Thanks, that helps. > > > > > >but I have a konsole window open I > > > can run programs from there. All these programs, including KDE-specific > > > ones such as Dolphin, work fine, without freezing or pauses. > > > > Looks like plasma-desktop froze. Does top show this process with 100% CPU > > usage? This happened to me often. > > > > Try this in your Konsole in order to quit plasma and restart it: > > > > kquitapp plasma-desktop; plasma-desktop > > > > If kquitapp does not work, try killall -9 plasma-desktop instead. If it > > hangs again, maybe you see some output in the Konsole that helps to see > > what the problem is. > > Yeah it was completely frozen, I had to kill -9 the process. I've now > started it from a konsole window so we'll see if it shows any errors. Saw something interesting in the konsole window - just before the freeze ups each time there is output from the Pyweather plasma widget that shows it trying to retrieve weather data from the net. Currently our cable internet is out so I'm using 3G (USB tethering from the mobile phone), which in our house is slow and gets an intermittent signal. My theory is it looks like the Pyweather widget is hanging trying to get data sometimes, and this in turn hangs plasma-desktop. Which, if true, is IMHO a huge design fault in plasma-desktop. Anyway I'll see if this theory holds out, Pyweather's been removed and so far no freezes. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:33 PM, "Alex Schuster" wrote: > Tim Edwards writes: > > > I'm running Opensuse 11.4 with KDE 4.6 on a Netbook. When I plug the > > netbook in to an external monitor/TV after a few minutes the KDE panel > > (including all menus, icons, clock etc.) is completely frozen. Even > > after over an hour it remains frozen. > > > > All other software functions fine - firefox, Libreoffice, Thunderbird > > etc. and I can use alt+tab to switch between them. I can't launch new > > programs since the KMenu is frozen > > I think KRunner (Alt-F2) should still work. Thanks, that helps. > > >but I have a konsole window open I > > can run programs from there. All these programs, including KDE-specific > > ones such as Dolphin, work fine, without freezing or pauses. > > Looks like plasma-desktop froze. Does top show this process with 100% CPU > usage? This happened to me often. > > Try this in your Konsole in order to quit plasma and restart it: > > kquitapp plasma-desktop; plasma-desktop > > If kquitapp does not work, try killall -9 plasma-desktop instead. If it > hangs again, maybe you see some output in the Konsole that helps to see > what the problem is. Yeah it was completely frozen, I had to kill -9 the process. I've now started it from a konsole window so we'll see if it shows any errors. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
Hi, I'm running Opensuse 11.4 with KDE 4.6 on a Netbook. When I plug the netbook in to an external monitor/TV after a few minutes the KDE panel (including all menus, icons, clock etc.) is completely frozen. Even after over an hour it remains frozen. All other software functions fine - firefox, Libreoffice, Thunderbird etc. and I can use alt+tab to switch between them. I can't launch new programs since the KMenu is frozen but I have a konsole window open I can run programs from there. All these programs, including KDE-specific ones such as Dolphin, work fine, without freezing or pauses. Anyone experienced this? Any ideas? Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Kickoff Menu Config
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:21 -0400, "Eric Griffith" wrote: > Hey guys, I've got 2 hdd's in my laptop and I've been distro jumping > enough lately that I set the second drive to be "/personal" with > Documents/Videos/Music/Games etc in there, and then when I install a > new distro I delete the folders in my /home, go to /personal, drag > everything back to home and click "link here" It works great and solve > 99% of my issues. Except one. > > As I mentioned above, I have a games folder where I keep some wine > based games that I play a lot. And its really to have to everytime I > install a new distro go into the Kickoff Configuration settings, and > manually add back to the entries for each game one at a time. > > Really, I guess my question is this; where does KDE keep the config > files for Kickoff menu? And is there really anyway I could, > realistically and practically, automate adding the entries back in? I > don't know how KDE stores the entries so I dont know if a script would > be appropriate, or if this is just one of those 'bite the bullet and > do it yourself' situations. > > ~Eric G.~ Entries in the menu that you've added or edited are stored under ~/.local/share/applications/ as .desktop files. I had a similar situation to you and simply copying those files to the same place on another laptop worked. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: konsole cutting off half the screen with any program that uses ncurses
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:21 +, "Duncan" <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > Tim Edwards posted on Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:11:27 +0200 as excerpted: > > > I'm having a problem where konsole will not use the bottom half of the > > terminal window when any program with an ncurses UI is being run within > > it. > > This is best explained with a screenshot: > > http://paste.opensuse.org/images/55180558.png > > > > The applications I've tried so far which show the problem are vim, less, > > ncftp, GNU screen and links. > > > > The distro is Opensuse 11.4 with KDE 4.6.0 and all updates applied from > > the opensuse update repo. The machine is a Virtualbox VM. > > > > Can anyone here help with this? > > That is almost certainly KDE bug #176902. Multiple tabs, check. 24 > lines instead of 40, check. > > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176902 > > Also: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477359 > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357945 > > At least Gentoo (what I run) recently patched it, the reason the bug is > fresh in my mind as I saw it in a gentoo konsole package changelog entry > dated June 19th. > > There's a couple workarounds available while you're waiting for the patch > to hit your distro: > > One is to arrange for the konsole size to be something other than the > default 80x40 when it starts. You can do this by either checking that > the save window size and position checkbox found on the general tab of > the profile settings is checked, and resizing to something than the > default 80x40 chars size, then quitting, or by using kwin's window rules > (what I had done, the reason I never noticed the bug here). Thanks, done that now and I think it's a good workaround until the bugfix gets out. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] konsole cutting off half the screen with any program that uses ncurses
I'm having a problem where konsole will not use the bottom half of the terminal window when any program with an ncurses UI is being run within it. This is best explained with a screenshot: http://paste.opensuse.org/images/55180558.png The applications I've tried so far which show the problem are vim, less, ncftp, GNU screen and links. The distro is Opensuse 11.4 with KDE 4.6.0 and all updates applied from the opensuse update repo. The machine is a Virtualbox VM. Can anyone here help with this? Thanks Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Autostart locations in KDE4
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:29 +, "Duncan" <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > Tim Edwards posted on Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:05:32 +0200 as excerpted: > Sure they can be reenabled. Simply start them manually, hit the krunner > or kickoff hotkey and type into the box klipper. From the kickoff search > box, it shows up after three letters. No, sorry but you're wrong about this. If you were right I would never have needed to search around on how to make KNetworkManager startup automatically. To prove it do a simple experiment: 1. Click on klipper icon and choose 'quit' 2. When it asks tell it not to automatically start 3. Logout, log back in and verify klipper didn't start. 4. Start klipper from the menu or krunner or wherever - it runs normally 5. Logout and log back in - no klipper The point is that there is *no way* to re-enable these programs *except* editing the klipperrc or networkmanagerrc and setting autostart=true. Once you've closed them once they never start up automatically again from the normal user's perspective. > > But that's my point. The user has the ability to add the entries to > autostart if they want to (and if they're already running there's already > a UI available to disable them), entirely separate from the way kde > normally manages the system default entries. And that's the way it > should > be. The two setups should remain separate, so a user is always clear on > the entries he's added himself, vs those managed by the system. Again, look at the file location - ~/.kde4/share/config/rc - it *is* a user setting. If I set autostart=true or false in my klipperrc, or close klipper and tell it not to restart (which is the same as setting autostart=false) it is entirely separate from the way KDE manages system default entries. I'm saying that this functionality, the setting of autostart= in the user's own rc files, should be exposed in the GUI. There are already 2 separate sections in Autostart - .desktop files and scripts - there's no reason to not have a 3rd - 'default programs' or something with just an enable and disable option for each. Your suggested way of manually adding them back is a workaround, not a fix. It requires users to be able to find the name of the binary - klipper or knetworkmanager or whatever. Plus users have to know in the first place that to get these programs back they have to manually add them. This is totally non-intuitive and for most users will require them to ask on mailing lists and forums. The basic principle is if the programs appear by default on a fresh home directory and can be disabled easily in the GUI they should be able to be re-enabled easily in the GUI. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Autostart locations in KDE4
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 11:28 +, "Duncan" <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > Klipper actually does, tho it's not necessarily intuitive. > > If you select quit from the second menu (the one you get if you click the > tear-off, otherwise it shows only some of the possible entries and misses > the actual klipper app options, at least if you have it set to more > entries than the first menu shows normally, I have it set to 50... I'd > call the fact that it doesn't append the app options to the first menu a > bug...), in what would be the normal "are you sure" dialog, it instead > asks if you want to start it automatically when you login, with start, > do- > not-start, and cancel buttons (thus giving you the are you sure option > indirectly, as cancel). > > But selecting quit to configure whether you want to start it at login is > about as unintuitive as the infamous MS Windows start button... to > logoff/ > shutdown! > > Actually, I'd call /that/ the bug. It should have a rather more > intuitive > option to start at login directly in the klipper config dialog. You > shouldn't have to quit it to set that, altho having it in the quit > verification is a nice touch as well, but only as well, that shouldn't be > the ONLY way of setting it. Your forgetting the problem that caused me to start this thread originally: When you disable one of these programs from starting with KDE by right-clicking on it and clicking 'quit' there is no way to re-enable them. There is no way to even see what's disabled or enabled - it just dissapears into the ether from the user's POV, like my KNetworkManager. The only way is if the user searches on mailing lists and forums and discovers that the 'clipboard thing' in their task bar is called kclipper or something and they have to edit a some config file. > > It's still not a bug not to appear in the /user/ autostart area, because > it's a kde service and is treated as such (the monochromatic icon is a > major hint), not an additional normal user app. > > Actually, I expect eventually they'll have it appear in the systray > "extra > items" list with a checkbox to start it there, much as they do device > notifier and event notifier (notifications). If you check existing bugs, > there's still menu/window/shortcut bugs open resulting from the 4.5 move > to the monochromatic icons and system-tray services, and it really does > feel like what we have ATM is a hack-job temporary workaround designed to > get it workable after that, not the final UI solution it should be. > > But that's klipper. I really can't have a proper opinion on knetmanager, > since I don't have it installed, except that I don't believe it's a bug > not to show it in autostart unless you as the user have directly > configured it there, because that's what autostart is /for/, the stuff > you've put there yourself, not the system services stuff kde normally > handles on its own. And that's really an opinion about the autostart > kcontrol module, not knetworkmanager, except that knetworkmanager happens > to be one of the apps in question. Well maybe these things that are defined in /usr/share/autostart should appear as services in the Startup & Shutdown module, but they don't. However they are clearly a user setting - it's the user who disables them or (if they know which rc-files to edit) re-enables them, they aren't a system setting. To be clear: I mean the user should have the ability to enable/disable them for his user account, the equivalent of what he can do now only be editing the rc-files in ~/.kde4. Not that users should be able to delete or add the .desktop files from /usr/share/autostart. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Autostart locations in KDE4
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 03:51 +, "Duncan" <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > > FWIW, both klipper and krandrtray have files in my *.desktop autostart > dir > (the path of which I've customized to ~/config/autostart/ , no initial > dot > as I don't like hidden files/dirs so much). > > However, I deliberately placed at least the klipper entry there myself > after kde quit starting it on its own for some reason. It was NOT there > originally, even when kde was starting it properly. I don't remember > putting the krandrtray entry there but I do remember deciding to run it > regularly, recently, tho I /thought/ I'd checked a box in its config to > do > so, but can't see that box now so I don't know if I'm recalling what I > did > to set it auto-run or not. > > HOWEVER, my main point in the previous reply was that kde has several > ways > to start apps, and that normally the only ones found in the autostart > kcontrol applet are the ones specifically put there by the user. The > ones > normally started by the system or with a checkbox in the app config > itself > as to whether they run on kde start or not, don't appear in that module > (or the associated directories) because it's not a manual user initiated > change, but rather part of kde's own infrastructure. > > That's not a bug. That's a designed feature! > > (I did speculate, however, that an entry might appear in the service > manager module also located under startup and shutdown, if the app was > installed. But I don't have it installed so I can't check.) If it really is a feature and not just an oversight in the design of the Startup & Shutdown module then it's a mis-feature. There's no reliable way for the (normal) user to enable or disable these programs starting with KDE - most of them simply don't have an option in the app config. KNetworkManager would be the perfect example of this, once disabled you can never re-enable it unless you hack a config file in an undocumented procedure. Klipper also has no option to re-enable it's startup if disabled. This is not something most desktop users should have to do and defeats the purpose of the Startup & Shutdown module. I'll raise a bug. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Autostart locations in KDE4
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 14:54 +, "Duncan" <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > Tim Edwards posted on Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:53:52 +0200 as excerpted: > > > Recently I found that knetworkmanager wasn't starting up when I logged > > into KDE. I tried looking for any mention of it in the 'startup and > > shutdown' control centre module, but no luck. Eventually I found a tip > > on a forum that I had to set 'Autostart=true' in > > ~/.kde4/share/config/networkmanagementrc > > FWIW I don't use networkmanager at all, here. I have two main systems > here. My workstation is setup with a constant wired Ethernet connection > that's started as one of the system init services. My netbook... isn't > really used as a /net/book but rather as a portable un-networked computer > most of the time. Its Ethernet, which I use for updating from the > dedicated 32-bit chroot system image on my otherwise 64-bit workstation, > is likewise initscript controlled but in a non-default runlevel, and its > wireless hasn't been a big priority for me. I did try to get the netbook > wireless networking running at one point but failed, I believe due to a > kernel bug with the particular kernel I was running at the time. I've > since upgraded kernels but as I said, it hasn't been a big priority to > get > that working, and I've not gotten back to it. > > As such I can't and won't attempt to deal with the networkmanager stuff > at > all. However, I can help with the following... > > > So my question is, what's the status of the autostart stuff: Shouldn't > > it all be configurable through the standard control centre module which > > stores its settings in the standard (~/.config/autostart) > > directory? > > Not really. The setting found in that location serve a specific purpose > -- USER configurable autostart (and auto-stop). It's not for general > KDE/ > desktop services (there's a different place to configure that) or for > general system services (configured using whatever tools your > distribution > provides for setting up and configuring system initscripts and services). > > > Does KDE go scanning through ~/.kde4/share/config/ looking for > > 'Autostart=' in rc-files? > > I don't believe so in general. However, knetworkmanager is evidently > (the > caveat about my not running it here applies, thus "evidently", based > purely on the evidence you reported above) available as a kde desktop > service if so configured, and this is /evidently/ the config-file > location > where that preference is stored. Presumably there's also a GUI option > controlling it somewhere, but since I don't have the software installed, > I > can't be sure where that might be. First off, thanks for the detailed explanation of the autostart locations, I've saved it to a text file as a reference. However the problem is that although all those autostart locations you detailed are managed by the Startup & Shutdown control centre module nothing resembling networkmanager appears in that control centre module. I think that's at least 2 bugs: 1) The fact that KDE scans rc-files in some fashion to start programs, a behaviour that sounds hacky and probably isn't documented anywhere but in the code itself. These programs should appear properly in Startup & Shutdown->Services 2) A bug in knetworkmanager that it doesn't register itself in Startup & Shutdown->Services Not to mention that it's not the only program that does this. Going through the icons in my control bar I see the following programs that start with KDE, do not appear in Startup & Shutdown module and are not widgets: Klipper (.kde4/share/config/klipperrc) Kmix (.kde4/share/config/kmixrc) Size Change and Rotate (.kde4/share/config/krandrrc) Korganizer Reminder Module (.kde4/share/config/korgacrc) So if you have any of the following installed on your machine you'll be able to see the same behaviour. Tim ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Autostart locations in KDE4
Recently I found that knetworkmanager wasn't starting up when I logged into KDE. I tried looking for any mention of it in the 'startup and shutdown' control centre module, but no luck. Eventually I found a tip on a forum that I had to set 'Autostart=true' in ~/.kde4/share/config/networkmanagementrc So my question is, what's the status of the autostart stuff: Shouldn't it all be configurable through the standard control centre module which stores its settings in the standard (~/.config/autostart) directory? Does KDE go scanning through ~/.kde4/share/config/ looking for 'Autostart=' in rc-files? Thanks TIm ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
