Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Friday, 2012-04-06, John Woodhouse wrote: I'm trying to use Dolphin - the file manager as konq used to be Comments related to Dolphin Hmm, ok. But why not use Konqueror if you are looking for its features? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
if it has happened but that would be a useful step up from Konq. I also thought that the general idea was to replace konq with dolphin. It is more an addition, i.e. having a file managment only application available additional to the graphical shell Konqueror. Konqueror with all its modes and settings specific for certain modes is mainly addressing the needs of a type of user who like to have a wide range of options at hand at all times. Other users prefer simple tools even it that means not being able to do things a certain way. One of the options to solve this was to create another Konqueror mode that, when activated, would lock down some of the application's capabilities. In the end the option to create a new and dedicated application was chosen instead for various reasons (additional and very committed developers, not needing to add complexity to an already quite complex application, etc). The replacing part of the whole change only applies to the default setting, i.e. which of the two application's is registered as the default file manager. This registration can of course be changed or Konqueror can be used by choice if it fits a user's workflow or mental patterns better. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
Have to forgive me here Keven but having checked the 2 konq looks to be the same as dolphin and just presented in a different way but dolphin has a file search and konq has bookmarks and I can open text files into another tab with it. File bookmarks don't work in my case. Do they in any version? I have my doubts. Konq is so similar to dolphin I can understand why certain people describe it as a window not an application. I haven't much time for people who blindly resist change just because it doesn't work in exactly the same way as it did - selections etc but as things stand there isn't much point in having the 2 apps except for people like that and as it is they will still be unhappy. :-) Must admit I did like Konq with full feature viewing and complained, a natural reaction. One app doing all is handy once some one has got used to the idea but dolphin previews and ok has to launch an app to actually view - big deal really for anyone who views such changes sensibly. Konq also launches and ap if I open a video in another tab. Text, pictures and pdf are ok but the latter takes time to load. A bit too long really. Trying to do that with all viewable files could understandably be a rather difficult option given the variations. Kitting out dolphin with a file search is a sensible place to put it and it's not exactly intrusive. What makes no sense what so ever is not making the results function in the same way as a normal file view mode does. As to the 2 being really different I think you must have your tongue in your cheek really. I have because I'm not convinced konq could ever bookmark files else why did I use kate. In 2 modes actually normal and su mode. What would be super cool (60's jargon) would to be to add file bookmarks that simply went to them and highlighted them where ever they are ( or were but web pages have that problem too= error message) Click launch , right click open with . su mode etc. People who have m8's etc who crop up on k - dumb - unbuto from time to time could even bookmark there current favourite video's etc or what ever else that they have probably illegally down loaded and use what ever app they liked to view it. Fortunately just about every one on the planet over the age of about 2 1/2 knows what bookmarks are. It could also be used to bookmark folders - duplication I know but why not. Less frequently used ones maybe but some would remove the panel. That aspect makes me think that the code is already mostly there really. :-) Apologies to any of the ubunto school - just that I tried it and found out it crippled root fine for people who want to cripple a lot of people in an office. I also nosed around a fair few forums. I had a feeling that the typical users had changed some what. All to the good really. The more the better. In the meantime or for ever I suppose I will have to use the old file search facility. :-) I found the dolphin one by accident really, just clicking on edit to see what was there many months after having upgraded from 3 to 4. Looks to me like konq could get a search and bookmarks too for those that like the tabs and split views etc. Wow I just found that dolphin has them too - fibbing a bit there I already knew. It's a nice piece of software really but the search results fiasco is clearly a silly omission. John - Original Message - From: Kevin Krammer kram...@kde.org To: kde@mail.kde.org Cc: Sent: Saturday, 7 April 2012, 16:34 Subject: Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0 if it has happened but that would be a useful step up from Konq. I also thought that the general idea was to replace konq with dolphin. It is more an addition, i.e. having a file managment only application available additional to the graphical shell Konqueror. Konqueror with all its modes and settings specific for certain modes is mainly addressing the needs of a type of user who like to have a wide range of options at hand at all times. Other users prefer simple tools even it that means not being able to do things a certain way. One of the options to solve this was to create another Konqueror mode that, when activated, would lock down some of the application's capabilities. In the end the option to create a new and dedicated application was chosen instead for various reasons (additional and very committed developers, not needing to add complexity to an already quite complex application, etc). The replacing part of the whole change only applies to the default setting, i.e. which of the two application's is registered as the default file manager. This registration can of course be changed or Konqueror can be used by choice if it fits a user's workflow or mental patterns better. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring ___ This message is from
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Saturday, 2012-04-07, John Woodhouse wrote: Have to forgive me here Keven but having checked the 2 konq looks to be the same as dolphin and just presented in a different way but dolphin has a file search and konq has bookmarks and I can open text files into another tab with it. The two programs use the same view engine for displaying and interacting with directories and files, however everything around that is diffferent. E.g. Konqueror uses a standard browser address input while Dolphin uses breadcrum hints by default. Konqueror can do vertical and horizontal view splits, separate views can be linked (changing path in one changes path in all linked ones), etc., while Dolphin has all kinds of useful sidebars or docks. File bookmarks don't work in my case. Do they in any version? I have my doubts. Work fine here: konqueror --version Qt: 4.7.4 KDE: 4.6.5 (4.6.5) Konqueror: 4.6.5 (4.6.5) I tried a directory bookmark, one for a text file and one for an image file. All worked as expected. As to the 2 being really different I think you must have your tongue in your cheek really. They share code for some things, but they have a different philosophy on the general UI. I have because I'm not convinced konq could ever bookmark files else why did I use kate. Where you add your bookmarks might depend on the workflow associated with the bookmarked things. E.g. if your workflow it to start Kate and then browse for the files to edit, then having the file bookmarked in Kate fits better than bookmarking in in Konqueror. If your workflow is to browse to the file using a file manager and then start Kate by clicking on the file, bookmarking the directory the file is in would probably be more efficient. In 2 modes actually normal and su mode. What would be super cool (60's jargon) would to be to add file bookmarks that simply went to them and highlighted them where ever they are Yes, that sounds useful. Currently a bookmarked file is opened, i.e. the bookmark works like clicking the file, not just selecting it. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
I sometimes use the search facility for moving things about as things get rather untidy at times. I haven't checked this out in all instances but suspect it applies. I recently bought an all in one hdd docking unit as I have moved my pc case to a position where I can't easily get to the usb sockets. This unit comes with card reading slots, 2 USB ports and a socket to take sata discs. They seem to be expensive in many places but an ebay uk seller is doing them for uk£17. It works remarkably well on discs. Very fast. Cards too. :-) I only need the usb sockets on it for the camera now. Anyway I decided to look at a couple of old discs to see if there was anything I needed on them. Just browsing through files seems to be ok. I can launch them. Bit tedious going through that again so I decided to use dolphin search. First problem is that the search wouldn't accept multiple terms eg *.pdf;*.djvu so they have to be entered separately. The second problem was that having found them I couldn't do anything with them. Try to launch and nothing happens at all. Try to copy paste, move to or drag drop and a file doesn't exist msg comes up. Another odd aspect is that I can only find all of them as root. I assume this is because the disk contains one of my old home directories. Searching as none root does bring some up though. Bit worrying as I often view system files as an ordinary user - no chance of changing them unless I really intend to. I miss konq's file bookmarks for that sort of thing. It's very handy and saves remembering where they are. I don't suppose I can still use kate in that way either when I do want to modify one. If I can't remember were they are the only option I have is to use search. Seems I will have problems obtaining the path if I want to change them. Mentioned on here because maybe subsequent releases have addressed these anomalies. While use jargon might I also mention to Kevin that the real stake holders are the users. Devs don't really have the same relationship to their work. Another aspect is that a good starting place for any new piece of work is the old stuff and the question well why does it do or have that. Otherwise they haven't a cat in hells chance of spotting things like this and preventing them cropping up late in the cycle. Do it once and do it right has a lot going for it past beta. Pre beta's should really just omit things rather than part doing them otherwise they never really go away. I wonder how hard it will be to make these changes if they ever happen - structure. This also relates to what users want / need. None of us are happy with windoze because the alternative offers far more facilities - or did even if a dev is unaware that people actually use them. John ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Friday, 2012-04-06, John Woodhouse wrote: Another odd aspect is that I can only find all of them as root. I assume this is because the disk contains one of my old home directories. Searching as none root does bring some up though. My guess would be that file system access restrictions prevent applications running as your user from accessing those other directories. In which case I wouldn't call that odd because that's how the file system is expected to work. Bit worrying as I often view system files as an ordinary user - no chance of changing them unless I really intend to. I miss konq's file bookmarks for that sort of thing. Hmm, Konqueror's file bookmarks still work for me. Haven't used those in ages since I am only visiting a handful of directories regularily and I have added those to the Places toolbar/dock. But I just tried and I could add and follow a bookmark to a directory. It's very handy and saves remembering where they are. I don't suppose I can still use kate in that way either when I do want to modify one. No problems using Kate's bookmarks either, actually use them a lot. Mentioned on here because maybe subsequent releases have addressed these anomalies. Bookmarks have definitely always worked. I use Konqueror as my main browser and it doesn't make any difference locations as far as I can tell and all version's of Kate that I have been using over the years had working bookmarks since that feature was introduced. While use jargon might I also mention to Kevin that the real stake holders are the users. Devs don't really have the same relationship to their work. I think that largely depends on what kind of software we talk about and how it is developed. For Free and Open Source software it is almost guaranteed that a developer is also a user of that software. This is basically the number one reason people work on certain programs, i.e. needing the program yourself. There are only a few exceptions, e.g. developers of assistive technology might not need that assitance themselves, however then again some will work on those because they closely relate to a person who does. The two sets users and developers have such a huge overlap that one can safely approximate developers to be a subset of users. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
John Woodhouse posted on Fri, 06 Apr 2012 04:53:20 -0700 as excerpted: Anyway I decided to look at a couple of old discs to see if there was anything I needed on them. Just browsing through files seems to be ok. I can launch them. Bit tedious going through that again so I decided to use dolphin search. First problem is that the search wouldn't accept multiple terms eg *.pdf;*.djvu so they have to be entered separately. The second problem was that having found them I couldn't do anything with them. Try to launch and nothing happens at all. Try to copy paste, move to or drag drop and a file doesn't exist msg comes up. As you mentioned may be the case, dolphin has had a lot of work done to it in recent releases. Both 4.7 and 4.8 had dolphin changes and I know search was among them. I don't use dolphin enough personally to track the changes closely, but do recall being distinctly surprised when I opened it at one point, probably when I was running one of the 4.8 pre- releases, as it just seemed far more usable than I remembered it being. Also note that it's possible to set konqueror as your file manager of choice, if you prefer. That's in kde settings, workspace..., default applications. Another odd aspect is that I can only find all of them as root. I assume this is because the disk contains one of my old home directories. Searching as none root does bring some up though. It's likely that the UID numbers on the old disk are different, even if the usernames were the same. Same thing possible with groups. It should be possible, as root, to do a recursive chown from somewhere in the mounted filesystem tree of the old disk, as appropriate. I remember having to do that when switching from Mandrake to Gentoo, since the user and group ID numbers weren't the same between them. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
