[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 15c730840a66 <6ot3tj...@mozmail.com> changed: What|Removed |Added CC||6ot3tj...@mozmail.com --- Comment #19 from 15c730840a66 <6ot3tj...@mozmail.com> --- (In reply to Paul Martin from comment #18) > Because I feel like this might be better if it were somehow user configurable. For the time being you can patch these lines in plasma-integration, though not every application seems to respect it: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-integration/-/blob/Plasma/6.1/qt5/src/platformtheme/khintssettings.cpp#L116 https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-integration/-/blob/Plasma/6.1/qt6/src/platformtheme/khintssettings.cpp#L116 replace KdeLayout with MacLayout, GnomeLayout, or AndroidLayout -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Neal Gompa changed: What|Removed |Added CC||ngomp...@gmail.com -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #18 from Paul Martin --- (In reply to Paul Martin from comment #17) > Practically speaking, is there a way to configure this on a per-user basis? > E.g. can users override something in the application style to configure it > there? Or is the only way to patch the layout in QDialogButtonBox? Because I feel like this might be better if it were somehow user configurable. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Paul Martin changed: What|Removed |Added CC||pmar...@pauldmartin.org --- Comment #17 from Paul Martin --- Practically speaking, is there a way to configure this on a per-user basis? E.g. can users override something in the application style to configure it there? Or is the only way to patch the layout in QDialogButtonBox? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #16 from Christian (Fuchs) --- If I undeestood this correctly and the order is defined by Qt, this is even trickier, not to say worse. Such a massive change should, if at all, have come with a major version change. If it comes with a Qt change, there is no chance for us to steer when it is shipped, as that would be entirely up with Qt and distro packaging of Qt, which makes me be even more against it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #15 from Taro Tanaka --- Sorry if my understanding is something wrong, but before submitting a Qt bug report/feature request for it, don't we need a consensus among KDE devs/designers? Or should the design discussion continue in a Qt bug report? Or is this already approved by the KDE side? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Status|CONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |UPSTREAM --- Comment #14 from Nate Graham --- I looked into this and it looks amusingly like we can't change this in the correct way ourselves in KDE code. The button order is per-platform and the platform button mappings are in Qt. So the "KDE button order" is hardcoded there! See https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qdialogbuttonbox.html#ButtonLayout-enum. We could theoretically switch to using the GNOME or Mac OS button layouts in our code, but that would be totally wrong. The correct approach would be to change what the "KDE button order" means in Qt itself. So to proceed here, Qt changes are needed. If you'd like to proceed here, I'd recommend submitting a Qt bug report/feature request for it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #13 from Christian (Fuchs) --- > Regarding muscle memory of existing users, I'd guess it's not that hard to > retrain it (given that it's pretty common today apart from KDE and Windows), > but I'm not entirely sure. 路 Windows with it's way past 90 percent of market share is imho not an "apart", and I would guess we have more people coming from or using Windows in parallel than e.g. GNOME. Also please note that this will affect actions that are destruktive and can't be undone, e.g.confirming deletion of a file bypassing trash. I would not recommend toying around with that kind of muscle memory easily. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REPORTED|CONFIRMED Ever confirmed|0 |1 --- Comment #12 from Nate Graham --- Thanks, that's fairly convincing to me. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #11 from Taro Tanaka --- So, I found my text-only explanation is probably not very clear and less convincing, I decided to create a comparison table with visual images: https://gist.github.com/eatsu/7db85d564fde71b3a4e3088ead3aae43 Regarding muscle memory of existing users, I'd guess it's not that hard to retrain it (given that it's pretty common today apart from KDE and Windows), but I'm not entirely sure. 路 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Component|general |general Assignee|unassigned-b...@kde.org |plasma-b...@kde.org Product|kde |plasma-integration -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|REPORTED Resolution|INTENTIONAL |--- --- Comment #6 from Nate Graham --- Thanks, that document is quite convincing to me. Re-opening for re-consideration. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 --- Comment #5 from Taro Tanaka --- Thank you very much for your consideration. Personally I still believe that the "Cancel/OK" button placement is obviously better from the viewpoint of UX and consistency, though. For example this article explains very well why OK buttons work best on the right, with visual images: https://uxmovement.com/buttons/why-ok-buttons-in-dialog-boxes-work-best-on-the-right/ Particularly the three visual fixations mentioned in the article (OK->Cancel->OK) are quite annoying to me, which I don't experience on other platforms. > as long as you're internally consistent--which we are. Personally I always feel that the current button placement is inconsistent with OK-only dialogs, as I argued in my original post. I understand that Plasma may be getting more people migrating from Windows than other platforms, and my proposal may break the expectations of the majority of them. However, on the other hand, I think many people will be using iPhone/Android along with Plasma. I don't know how many people will use Windows along with Plasma, but I'd guess less than the former. Also many websites follow the iPhone/Android convention for a reason. So I'm a bit doubtful if this proposal will really break the expectations of the majority of them, to be honest. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
[plasma-integration] [Bug 472733] Plasma 6 proposal: Swap the placement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472733 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Component|general |general CC||n...@kde.org Assignee|unassigned-b...@kde.org |plasma-b...@kde.org Status|REPORTED|RESOLVED Product|kde |plasma-integration Resolution|--- |INTENTIONAL --- Comment #4 from Nate Graham --- In don't find any of those reasons particularly compelling; I think this is one of those things that doesn't really matter as long as you're internally consistent--which we are. So any issue here is for users migrating from another platform who can have their muscle memory and expectations respected or broken. We're basically copying what Windows does here, so if we change, we'd be breaking the expectations of migrating Windows users. But by sticking with the status quo, we break the expectations of migrating users from other platforms. Do we get more people migrating to Plasma from Windows, compared to other platforms? Probably. But that's just a guess, I don't have numbers. Maybe I'm wrong. Because this isn't really a case where there's an obvious right answer, and we lack the data to say that making a change would improve things on average, I think we won't be making a change here. But thanks for engaging anyway! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
