Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program
On Freitag, 29. Januar 2016 21:46:25 CET Luca Beltrame wrote: > Il Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:09:23 +0100, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto: > > Maybe the speed of upgrading as such is not the actual point. What I > > care about is the speed with which bugfixes reach end users. If a > > The only way a distro that doesn't update to major version can cope with > this is through patching, or to update to the latest state of the branch. > Patching is problematic, branch updates can cause regressions. > > I'm not saying that this attitude is good or bad: I'm playing devil's > advocate and think in the perspective of the distros. In openSUSE we had > permission to submit new major versions as so-called "maintenance updates" > and IIRC Fedora does the same sometimes (feel free to correct me), but > most of the distros (save rolling like Arch) don't. The intention is not to blame any distribution for anything. The goal is to give users a way to identify distributions which fulfill the requirements for our software to run optimally. If for a specific distribution there are principles which are more important than meeting these requirements, then that's okay for the distribution and we don't blame them, but users should know that they can't expect KDE software to work perfectly on that distribution, and they should not blame us for it. > > The same goes for dependencies: If a certain version of a dependency > > causes bugs with our software, it is the distribution's job to fix that > > However sometimes dependencies don't integrate too well with the distro, > or need additional time to get worked out. Case in point: the current kdev- > python beta *requires* Python 3.5 to work. Up until a few weeks ago, Python > 3.5 could not get into openSUSE Tumbleweed due to some other, unrelated > issues. > > This means that kdev-python was not packageable until that issue was fixed > (it is now). There should be a communication channel for distributions to notify us "Hey, we know we currently don't meet the dependency requirements because of this and that problem, but we're working on it", so if whoever administers the outreach program can cut the distribution some slack. > Other issues may be distro processes: again I'm speaking about openSUSE as > I know most of the process, but new packages (so even deps) need to go > through legal and security review, and that may take time. That is fine as well: If we know that, we know when we can expect current packages to arrive in that distribution. And unless these processes take months to complete, it should not be much of a problem (unless it's about a critical security vulnerability, but distributions have special processes to get those fixed asap anyway, don't they?) > > Maybe not "special mentions", but when people come from our websites and > > want to know which distros ship our software, it would be nice for them > > My issue is mainly to prevent "perceived endorsement", which I think should > be avoided. Would a "Runs KDE software optimally" kind of badge not be perceived as an endorsement? ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program
Il Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:39:11 +0100, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto: > The intention is not to blame any distribution for anything. The goal is > to give users a way to identify distributions which fulfill the > requirements for our software to run optimally. I understood that, but my fear is that the message will be misinterpreted, although I do not assume bad faith on any part. > can't expect KDE software to work perfectly on that distribution, and > they should not blame us for it. It happens also the other way: there's quite a number of bugs filed at the distributions' trackers that are upstream problem. Again, this is not an accusation or "you too!" mention, just to say that this problem is IMO, inevitable, and at best it can be minimized (that's why I think the outreach idea is important). > There should be a communication channel for distributions to notify us > "Hey, we know we currently don't meet the dependency requirements The other problem is that distro people are for the major part all volounteers, so I guess that between packaging and writing mails, they prefer packaging. ;) But I guess the kde-distro-packagers ML could be used for this, somehow? > (unless it's about a critical security vulnerability, but distributions > have special processes to get those fixed asap anyway, don't they?) Yes, they do. Sometimes a prompt release is not warranted to watch out for regressions, and distros may hop to .x versions (and that is why, I think, Plasma people adopted a staggered minor release model). > Would a "Runs KDE software optimally" kind of badge not be perceived as > an endorsement? Personally not, but I'd like other people from distributions to chime in. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: A29D259B ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program
On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote: > Il Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:39:11 +0100, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto: > >> The intention is not to blame any distribution for anything. The goal is >> to give users a way to identify distributions which fulfill the >> requirements for our software to run optimally. > > I understood that, but my fear is that the message will be misinterpreted, > although I do not assume bad faith on any part. > >> can't expect KDE software to work perfectly on that distribution, and >> they should not blame us for it. > > It happens also the other way: there's quite a number of bugs filed at the > distributions' trackers that are upstream problem. Again, this is not an > accusation or "you too!" mention, just to say that this problem is IMO, > inevitable, and at best it can be minimized (that's why I think the > outreach idea is important). > >> There should be a communication channel for distributions to notify us >> "Hey, we know we currently don't meet the dependency requirements > > The other problem is that distro people are for the major part all > volounteers, so I guess that between packaging and writing mails, they > prefer packaging. ;) But I guess the kde-distro-packagers ML could be used > for this, somehow? > >> (unless it's about a critical security vulnerability, but distributions >> have special processes to get those fixed asap anyway, don't they?) > > Yes, they do. Sometimes a prompt release is not warranted to watch out for > regressions, and distros may hop to .x versions (and that is why, I think, > Plasma people adopted a staggered minor release model). > >> Would a "Runs KDE software optimally" kind of badge not be perceived as >> an endorsement? > > Personally not, but I'd like other people from distributions to chime in. How about coming up with a set of scripts that give score to an installation? This way we can say "OpenSuse scored X points/K stars in our compatibility test" and yet we have some metrics to help improve integration. Aleix ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program
Il Sat, 30 Jan 2016 19:09:16 +0100, Aleix Pol ha scritto: > How about coming up with a set of scripts that give score to an > installation? That's not a bad idea, what do you suggest one would "test" with such a script? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: A29D259B ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
