Re: [kde-community] GSoC Application Deadline is Feb. 19! Get your ideas in ASAP

[Gilles Caulier]

So right url of wiki page is :

https://community.kde.org/GSoC/2016/Ideas

Q : why to write a google document if a wiki page exists (or vis versa) ?
Why duplicate work ?

Gilles Caulier

2016-02-15 7:17 GMT+01:00 Valorie Zimmerman :

> Ooops, I used the GCi ideas page, rather than GSoC:
> https://community.kde.org/GoogleCodeIn/2016/Ideas
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Valorie Zimmerman
>  wrote:
> > We like to make the application at least one day early, and our ideas
> > page is part of what supports our application. Please make our
> > position strong, and set yourself up to get a great student to mentor
> > this summer!
> >
> > For now, Google Doc:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k1ESLkh6-0Hz4rGR02yEasjjx0_Kz12Y_6SZR3AWMVU/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > We'll transfer those to the wiki page at
> > https://community.kde.org/GoogleCodeIn/2016/Ideas before the
> > applications close. The wiki page can have ideas added and modified
> > right up until student application deadline, but we need it full of
> > ideas now, in order that our application be accepted.
> >
> > Please, NOW.
> >
> > And sub to KDE-Soc-Mentor list if you are going to mentor.
> >
> > Valorie
> >
> > --
> > http://about.me/valoriez
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[kde-community] GSoC Application Deadline is Feb. 19! Get your ideas in ASAP

[Valorie Zimmerman]

We like to make the application at least one day early, and our ideas
page is part of what supports our application. Please make our
position strong, and set yourself up to get a great student to mentor
this summer!

For now, Google Doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k1ESLkh6-0Hz4rGR02yEasjjx0_Kz12Y_6SZR3AWMVU/edit?usp=sharing

We'll transfer those to the wiki page at
https://community.kde.org/GoogleCodeIn/2016/Ideas before the
applications close. The wiki page can have ideas added and modified
right up until student application deadline, but we need it full of
ideas now, in order that our application be accepted.

Please, NOW.

And sub to KDE-Soc-Mentor list if you are going to mentor.

Valorie

-- 
http://about.me/valoriez
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Re: [kde-community] Distribution outreach program: Where do we go from here?

[tetris4]

On 13-02-2016 22:57, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

Does that make sense to you guys?
And most importantly: Who'd be up for joining the program team?


I do think KDE can and should improve communication with distributions 
and I would be happy to contribute in this effort. =)


Cheers,
Neofytos
(tetr...@chakraos.org)

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Re: [kde-community] Fwd: KDE Vision – towards “wholesame” solutions

[Alexander Neundorf]

Hi,

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 13:12:52 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:45 AM, Olaf Schmidt-Wischhöfer
> 
>  wrote:
> > sent to wrong mailinglist by mistake ...
> > 
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > From: "Olaf Schmidt-Wischhöfer" 
> > To: kde-ev-members...@kde.org
> > Cc:
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:19:00 +
> > Subject: KDE Vision – towards “wholesame” solutions
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > many thanks to all people that have worked on the vision proposals and to
> > everyone who contributed thoughts.
> > 
> > I would like to chime in with an aspect that I feel is missing so far.
> > 
> > This additional aspect is closely related to the motivation behind the
> > product-focussed draft, but my conclusions are completely different.
> > 
> > Already in KDE 2 and KDE 3 times, it impressed me that the software both
> > offered a high degree of flexibility (through modularity and many
> > configuration options) and a high degree of consistency (through clever
> > and
> > integrated solutions via the libraries). This tendency increased later
> > during Plasma 4 and Plasma 5 times with a restructuring of the KDE
> > releases. We now offer far more flexibility to users of the libraries (no
> > monolithic “kdelibs” any more). We also changed the release structure to
> > support the fact that both the libraries and the applications can be used
> > independent of the desktop – while keeping the good integration into the
> > desktop.
> > 
> > The flexibility aligns well with “enables users to control their digital
> > life” (from the value-based draft). 

Actually the product-based draft had that earlier, there was cross-pollination 
between the two :-)
( https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=KDE/VisionDraftA=45297 )

> > The consistency is, I think, what
> > motivates the product-focussed team.

this, and even more that we want to put the product into focus again.


...
> > This can be done via cooperations (OwnCloud, Kolab), but it other cases we
> > will be better off if we allow our own developers to work on solutions.
> > Forcing them to migrate to a different developing community will seriously
> > harm us in our quest.
> > 
> > For this reason, I am deeply concerned about the restrictive wording of
> > the product-focussed draft – even if a similar motivation moves me.
> > 
> > Regarding the value-based draft, my feedback is that it is very
> > well-written. I truly like it. I am convinced, however, that we need to
> > stress somewhere that the various KDE projects aim to integrate well with
> > each other. This can be in the vision, or in a Mission statement, or in
> > the Manifesto – but it is needed if we want to address the fear that KDE
> > will loose focus.

+1
I fully agree with your point that local software should be well integrated 
with online-services, and that KDE should try to provide that.

You say the wording is "restrictive". What exactly do you consider restrictive 
there ?
Do you understand "to achieve that, we work on:" as "we work on exactly that, 
and nothing else" ?
Our intention is to say that those 4 items are the main focus, which we work 
on, and of course everything that supports those (I said that already earlier 
in some mail). So online-software that integrates well with the local 
applications is also in scope.
What's not in scope would be online-software that has no relation to the local 
software (as you say, nothing would be integrated then).

Having said that, it is just a draft, a suggestion.
Not that much effort has been put into the exact words.
Also the 4 items are just a suggestion.
Olaf, if you think those could be modified or something added, please say so. 
:-)


> I agree that integration within our projects is important. And I
> believe it has suffered lately as the cohesion inside KDE became less.
> My gut feeling is that this should go in the mission.
> 
> > I would suggest a sentence like the following:
> > “KDE aims to offer complete, well-integrated solutions – while connecting
> > different platforms, devices and online services.”
> 
> That sounds good to me.

To me too, but I still miss the reference that it is about software with 
graphical user interfaces (GUI's can also have gesture or voice input etc.), 
which Olaf seems to imply too.
I mean, we are not targetting e.g. sensor networks built from 8bit uCs 
communicating to some big online server, with no user intervention (which 
would fit that description too), or are we ?
 
> > Before we finally agree on a vision, we need to clarify how it will relate
> > to the Manifesto – and what will happen to KDE projects that do not fit
> > to the vision.
> 
> They should live side-by-side. One defines who we are and the other
> defines where we want to go.

I think everybody agrees to that.
 
> > I consider it extremely important that we have clarity on the following
> > questions, and would like to hear an “official” answer from 

Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 15:35:01 Martin Graesslin wrote:
...
> I can turn that 180 degree around and argue that we are currently too narrow
> minded to get new people in and are not doing great. Hey look all the
> awesome work with Plasma 5 and Wayland. We are doing desktop, desktop,
> desktop. Have a new mobile shell. And where are the devs? Where are the
> people following in that pretty clear direction?
> 
> So apparently having the direction seems not to work. People don't follow.
> So maybe we are too narrow? Lose the people who are actually out there and
> do hip stuff?

If you say "desktop, desktop, desktop", yes, that's too narrow.
We suggest desktop, PLUS cross-platform applications (that's not a focus right 
now) PLUS cross-platform libraries (putting even more emphasis on KF5).
I think those two can get us a lot of new users and hopefully developers.

Alex

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Re: [kde-community] Distribution outreach program: Where do we go

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 04:09:22PM -0400, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> On a communication note - I think it would help to emphasize that Neon is, in 
> the end, KDE packages for Ubuntu. That is competition to the Kubuntu team 
> (but, given the history and people involved, that isn't a surprise). But it 
> isn't a full distribution, correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan...

Right, from the KDE neon FAQ:

"""
Is it a distro?

Not quite, it's a package archive with the latest KDE software on top
of a stable base. While we plan to have installable images, unlike
full distros we're only interested in KDE software.
"""

and of course

"""
Is this "the KDE distro"?

Nope. KDE believes it is important to work with many distributions, as
each brings unique value and expertise for their respective
users. This is one project out of hundreds from KDE.
"""

Shame on flamebaiting journalists who chose to ignore this.

Worth pointing out that if you want an official KDE distro you'd be
better looking at weekly Plasma ISOs
(http://files.kde.org/snapshots/), Plasma Wayland ISOs
(http://files.kde.org/snapshots/), Plasma mobile images
(http://kubuntu.plasma-mobile.org/) and Plasma Active images
(https://files.kde.org/plasma/active/).

Weirdly nobody ever complained about these or wrote articles saying
they were a terrible idea.

Jonathan
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Lydia Pintscher]

I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all your
really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for the second
draft.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM Ingo Klöcker  wrote:

> So, how about
> "KDE enables everyone to control their digital life without compromising
> their
> privacy."


It seems to me this is pitching control against privacy. If you want more
control you need to give up your privacy. To me one doesn't follow from the
other. Or am I missing something important?

Cheers
Lydia
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:33 PM Marco Martin  wrote:

> On Tuesday 09 February 2016 12:19:54 Kevin Ottens wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Sorry, but there was a bait I couldn't resist here. :-)
> >
> > On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 11:55:35 CET Marco Martin wrote:
> > > * "makes simple things easy" not sure about that, aren't simple things
> > > already supposed to be easy? :p (makes doing things easy?)
> >
> > In fact not, simple things can be terribly difficult to achieve
> (complexity
> > vs difficulty spectrums). I think the proposed phrasing points it out
> well:
> > * simple vs complex;
> >  * easy vs possible.
> >
> > That being said, I wonder how many people will fall for it like you did
> > here. Most people tend to conflate simple with easy and complex with
> > difficult.
>
> yep you are right, I do wonder if there is a problem in phrasing here tough
>

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good wording here that makes it clearer?


Cheers
Lydia
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Ingo Klöcker]

On Sunday 14 February 2016 20:16:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all
> your really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for
> the second draft.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM Ingo Klöcker  wrote:
> > So, how about
> > "KDE enables everyone to control their digital life without
> > compromising their
> > privacy."
> 
> It seems to me this is pitching control against privacy. If you want
> more control you need to give up your privacy.

I cannot follow you. Why do you think that you need to give up your 
privacy if you want more control?

I think the opposite is true. If you have full control over your digital 
life, then (for me) this implies that you have full control over your 
data. So, we could probably even remove the "without compromising their 
privacy" part from the vision statement (but we should then add it to an 
explanatory second sentence similar to how Oxfam explains with a second 
sentence what they mean by "a just world without poverty").


Regards,
Ingo


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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 9:34 PM Ingo Klöcker  wrote:

> On Sunday 14 February 2016 20:16:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > I am currently going through all the feedback again. Thanks for all
> > your really useful feedback, Ingo. We'll take over a lot of it for
> > the second draft.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM Ingo Klöcker  wrote:
> > > So, how about
> > > "KDE enables everyone to control their digital life without
> > > compromising their
> > > privacy."
> >
> > It seems to me this is pitching control against privacy. If you want
> > more control you need to give up your privacy.
>
> I cannot follow you. Why do you think that you need to give up your
> privacy if you want more control?
>
> I think the opposite is true. If you have full control over your digital
> life, then (for me) this implies that you have full control over your
> data.
>

Yes exactly :) But to me the revised draft has a slight bent saying the
opposite.

Cheers
Lydia
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - first draft for discussion

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, February 12, 2016 09:15:09 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2016 21:00:37 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> ...
> 
> > Maybe what you want is an overarching product vision instead of a
> > community
> > vision, after all?
> 
> I think I can answer at least for everybody from the alternative-draft
> team,  maybe also for the people who want more "direction" in KDE: yes.

Obvious suggestion: go forth and create product visions? (We did the same, 
it's a useful exercise, but orthogonal to this discussion.)
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
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Re: [kde-community] Wikis uneditable

[Jaroslaw Staniek]

Hi Ben,

It seems that techbase isn't locked. There were a few acts of
vandalism too: https://techbase.kde.org/Special:Log/delete

PS: Any update on possible solutions for the wikis?


On 2 February 2016 at 08:51, Ben Cooksley  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Until further notice, all wikis hosted under KDE.org have been
> rendered uneditable by everyone except members of the Identity group
> "web-admins".
>
> Unfortunately it seems bots (or a human sweatshop) have completely
> automated the login (via OpenID/Identity none the less) and abusive
> editing of many of our wikis.
>
> This appears to be an issue being experienced by other Mediawiki
> installations elsewhere as well.
>
> At some point we may reinvestigate restoring editing rights to a more
> limited number of users, but until then our wikis will remain closed
> to editing.
>
> If necessary, we may need to consider migration to alternative Wiki software.
>
> Regards,
> Ben Cooksley
> KDE Sysadmin
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-- 
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
Calligra Suite:
: A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
Kexi:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
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