Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 19:42:44 Stephen Kelly wrote:
> Alexander Neundorf wrote:
> >> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life" (in ->
> >> over) seems a great vision.
> > 
> > personally I'd like to have included that this can be done
> 
> At least in my view (see my mail), a vision is not 'done' at all. It is only
> for inspiration.


by "this can be done" I didn't mean "we will do the following to realize 
this", but the "do" refers to the action of "having control over their digital 
life".

> 
> > - independent from the commercial interest of companies
> 
> Out of scope of the vision. See also my mail.
> 
> > - available for everybody to use
> 
> The vision Jos and I discuss says 'everyone'. See also my mail.

Yes, right.
 
> > - using solutions which can survive long-term
> 
> Implied by the vision.
>
> Actually I take this back. It's not implied by a vision. The question is out
> of scope.
> 
> A vision is not done, and a 'solution' is out of scope.

Isn't this nitpicking on the language ?

Let me take an example. Let's take whatsapp.

It is not free of cost, but really cheap. So to me this more or less qualifies 
as "available to everyone". Not ideal (free of cost), but close.
Let's assume a Whatsapp user would have fully satisfying control over his 
privacy, his data, etc.
This would qualify as "control over his digital life".
Still, this is for me not enough.

The user still depends on the company to continue the product, to not change 
the terms and conditions, etc.
The user still is forced to use a device where the software runs, and has lost 
if the app is e.g. not ported to the new mobile OS of the day, to some new 
processor, etc.
To me, this is not satisfying.

Or, IOW, the technology should be available similar to how pen and paper are 
available today - very cheap, not dependent on a single company, notes written 
today will be still readable in 100 years, the knowledge how to create them is 
no secret, etc.

Does that make clearer what I mean.

> I don't know if you read my mail, but I'd encourage you to do so.

TBH, it's so long I got lost.

Alex

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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Stephen Kelly]

Stephen Kelly wrote:

>> - using solutions which can survive long-term
> 
> Implied by the vision.

Actually I take this back. It's not implied by a vision. The question is out 
of scope.

A vision is not done, and a 'solution' is out of scope.

Thanks,

Steve.
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Stephen Kelly]

Alexander Neundorf wrote:

>> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life" (in ->
>> over) seems a great vision.
> 
> personally I'd like to have included that this can be done

At least in my view (see my mail), a vision is not 'done' at all. It is only 
for inspiration.

> - independent from the commercial interest of companies

Out of scope of the vision. See also my mail.

> - available for everybody to use

The vision Jos and I discuss says 'everyone'. See also my mail.

> - using solutions which can survive long-term

Implied by the vision.

The vision is intentionally vague and not-concrete and has no 'method', no 
'done', etc.

I don't know if you read my mail, but I'd encourage you to do so.

Thanks,

Steve.
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Stephen Kelly]

Jos Poortvliet wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:22:22 PM AMT Stephen Kelly wrote:
>> So for me, this is quite good:
>> 
>>  "A world in which everyone has control in their digital life"
>> 
>> I think it is good for all of the same reasons in my previous email. It
>> is also more concise.
> 
> I think she got sidetracked by the search for a slogan - I had the same,
> really liking what she wrote, then reading your mail and realizing it was
> a slogan, not a vision...

Cool, thanks for reading my mail and clearing up the side-track!

> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life" (in ->
> over) seems a great vision.

Seems great to me too.
 
> To execute, we'd need to 

From my perspective (see my mail), if you're 'executing', then you're not 
talking about a vision anymore. You don't execute a vision. You *just* use 
it for inspiration.

> Of course, next KDE would have to define mission and strategy, in which
> more detailed things like "end user facing software", "cross-platform",
> "Qt" and more could or could not find a place.

Yep.

Thanks,

Steve.
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Re: [kde-community] Wikis uneditable

[Ingo Malchow]

Am Samstag, 27. Februar 2016, 14:52:00 CET schrieb Friedrich W. H. Kossebau:
> Am Samstag, 27. Februar 2016, 00:47:39 CET schrieb Ingo Malchow:
> > This has been fixed now. The wikis are updated and the login was changed
> > to
> > an OAuth2 based login via Phabricator.
> > This means you need an identity account, and have it activated on http://
> > phabricator.kde.org
> > For more information see https://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/Wiki-Phablogin
> 
> Very good. And can confirm it works.
> Thanks for fixing and protecting some more against those awful socially
> challenged spammers!
> 
> One issue:
> on first login with phabricator to e.g. userbase, on the form to enter a new
> account name or pick an existing account, if picking new account and
> entering a name which is already taken, there is no feedback besides a
> blank page. So one has to guess there was a name collision.

Hi, 

Thanks for the feedback. The blank page is pretty strange. I indeed considered 
the case when a new account name is already taken. I cannot reproduce yet, 
even when you type in the new name in lower case. (mediawiki transfers the 
first letter into uppercase first).
One issue i can think of is that you already have an account, that was linked 
with identity. but on phabricator you might have changed the primary email, 
which is the reason that the new login does not correctly detect your account.

Will look into it. 

Cheerio,
Ingo
> 
> Thanks again
> Friedrich
> 
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-- 
Ingo Malchow
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Friday, February 26, 2016 20:01:59 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:22:22 PM AMT Stephen Kelly wrote:
> > Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
> > > Oooo, Steve! Thank you for capping off an excellent discussion.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Stephen Kelly  
wrote:
> > >> I think the form
> > >> 
> > >>  "A world in which everyone has  their digital life"
> > >> 
> > >> is fantastic!
> > >> 
> > >> It doesn't mention KDE. It doesn't have a 'subject' at all.
> > >> It has a very-inclusive object: 'everyone'
> > >> It is inspirational
> > > 
> > > After reading all of the above, which put into words my inchaote
> > 
> > > thoughts, I would like to offer the following version:
> > It seems your thoughts are not the same as my words at all :). Your
> > suggestion seems to be exactly the opposite of what I wrote in many ways.
> > 
> > Maybe I don't understand what you mean or what you want to communicate
> > with
> > that sentence.
> > 
> > > KDE: control your digital life
> > 
> > You dropped the reference to 'everyone'. You added a reference to KDE. You
> > dropped the 'a world in which' making it less inspirational. Altogether it
> > seems to me more like a marketing slogan.
> > 
> > Can you say why you made those changes?
> > 
> > Something I think you are right about is:
> > > Freedom, technology, software, privacy, all of that is IN there.
> > 
> > So for me, this is quite good:
> >  "A world in which everyone has control in their digital life"
> > 
> > I think it is good for all of the same reasons in my previous email. It is
> > also more concise.
> 
> I think she got sidetracked by the search for a slogan - I had the same,
> really liking what she wrote, then reading your mail and realizing it was a
> slogan, not a vision...
> 
> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life" (in -> over)
> seems a great vision.

personally I'd like to have included that this can be done
- independent from the commercial interest of companies, i.e. no product lock-
in
- available for everybody to use, i.e. more or less free of cost
- using solutions which can survive long-term, i.e. the sources should be 
available

Is all that implied by the your suggestions ?

Alex

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