Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Jaroslaw Staniek]

On 7 March 2016 at 21:43, Alexander Neundorf  wrote:

> On Thursday, March 03, 2016 04:46:20 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > replying on phone. blame faulty text completion/correction for any
> rudeness!
> > On Feb 29, 2016 5:40 PM, "Alexander Neundorf"  wrote:
> ...
> > > Can we express the "not be at the mercy of some company" clearer than
> > > "have full control" ?
> >
> > But then you have to spell it all out - it isn't just about companies but
> > governments, heck even individuals or charities...
>
> 
> now that is an interesting point, being independent from governments.
> More and more services of (local or national) governments are offered
> online.
> Just as on example, assume that some documents would be only available as
> pdf.
> You need at least a device, an operating system, a pdf reader.
> Or other stuff, communicating only via some network service (email ?),
> sending
> in documents in some specific format, etc., etc.
>
> So IMO it should be a goal of a government to enable their citizen to use
> those services using software which is free of cost (at least for their
> citizen), and without having to rely on some company. There are two obvious
> ways to achieve that: software development done by the government, and
> development of free software supported/paid for by  the government.
> 
>
> I think "sustainability" describes the concept I have in mind: something
> which
> works at some point in time and you can rely on that it will also work in
> the
> future.
> Don't know how to put that into a vision, maybe something like "a
> sustainable
> ecosystem of software/technology/...
> ​​
> ​​
> which gives everyone full control over
> their digital life" ?
>

I would not depend on theoretical government in our visions. The ones I
​heard about do their best to maximize number of _controlled_ jobs because
they can then "sell" them for power in their internal circles. I've touched
this problem a bit personally too. Just look at healthcare IT backoffice
systems in many countries. One about to be restarted in Poland after 15
years. Or one web form that costed 3B$ in the USA, money went to IBM, the
bigest sponsor of Linux ever.

In this light, consuming FOSS advantages directly is rather evil idea for
these governments as it reduces paid/controlled jobs. And taxes!
​
Regarding full control - I find it a bit pathetic. Todays' extremes cause
that if we just call for "control" and not "full control", we're already
very good.

It'd say we can try to "return people control over their digital life". Not
"everyone" because "everyone" is the new meaningless "nobody".


> Alex
>
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-- 
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
Calligra Suite:
: A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
Kexi:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Saturday, March 05, 2016 11:18:47 Stephen Kelly wrote:
> Jos Poortvliet wrote:
...
> > Just think about neon - make a list of 5 reasons why it shouldn't be a KDE
> > project, easy. But then look at the vision: does it help people (a certain
> > group, in this case, Ubuntu users) achieve and more control over their
> > privacy, their desktop etc? It does, so, while we can and should have more
> > criteria than 'just' a vision, it IS something which binds us.
> 
> This part of your email seems really out of scope to me.
> 
> A vision is not a tool. It is especially not a tool for deciding things
> like whether something fits in KDE. Look to a mission for that. The vision
> should be 'useless' and 'not helpful to decide anything at all'.
> 
> It should not 'define what KDE is' or be helpful for defining that, or
> anything along those lines.
> 
> The only reason to have a vision is to be inspired by it. Trying to use it
> for other things is a mistake IMO.

Is there general consensus on that ?
There wasn't very much response to this.
(I'm not saying I disagree, just asking)

I wouldn't mind keeping this as the preliminary vision and starting to work on 
the mission.

Alex

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Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - second draft for discussion

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Thursday, March 03, 2016 04:46:20 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> replying on phone. blame faulty text completion/correction for any rudeness!
> On Feb 29, 2016 5:40 PM, "Alexander Neundorf"  wrote:
...
> > Can we express the "not be at the mercy of some company" clearer than
> > "have full control" ?
> 
> But then you have to spell it all out - it isn't just about companies but
> governments, heck even individuals or charities... 


now that is an interesting point, being independent from governments.
More and more services of (local or national) governments are offered online.
Just as on example, assume that some documents would be only available as pdf.
You need at least a device, an operating system, a pdf reader.
Or other stuff, communicating only via some network service (email ?), sending 
in documents in some specific format, etc., etc.

So IMO it should be a goal of a government to enable their citizen to use 
those services using software which is free of cost (at least for their 
citizen), and without having to rely on some company. There are two obvious 
ways to achieve that: software development done by the government, and 
development of free software supported/paid for by  the government.


I think "sustainability" describes the concept I have in mind: something which 
works at some point in time and you can rely on that it will also work in the 
future.
Don't know how to put that into a vision, maybe something like "a sustainable 
ecosystem of software/technology/... which gives everyone full control over 
their digital life" ?

Alex

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